I can never fly again.

[EdFred]

Over the past 4-5 years if I were to combine all the limitations of people (I am not counting student pilot limits, students get a pass) on this board and the red board I would never fly....ever!

I won't fly if...

...the wind is more than 10 knots (in any direction!).
...the ceilings are below 4,000'.
...the runway isn't at least 5,000' long.
...the runway isn't at least 75' wide.
...over water.
...over mountains.
...at night.
...in a single.
...to a grass field.
...to a class D airport.
...to a class C airport.
...to a class B airport.
...to an uncontrolled field
...in IMC (even when IR rated!)
...under VFR
...if I can't stay in radar contact.
...more than 50 miles from home.
...in the winter.
...outside gliding distance of an airport.

When did this country become a bunch of namby-pamby momma's boys (and girls)?

 

[wbarnhill]

My only real restriction is I won't fly if I don't have the money.

Sadly, that's been way too prominent in the past few years.

 

[EdFred]

My only real restriction is I won't fly if I don't have the money.

You could never be on a government appropriations committee. That never stops them!

 

[Ted]

Couldn't agree more, Ed. Everyone has their personal limitations, and that's fine. If limitations are that great, you need more training.

 

[mikea]

You forgot:

Not over 1200 feet AGL so you don't have far to fall.

 

[Dean]

Or without a BRS.

 

[Jack Spectre]

I've had my PP-ASEL for 6 months now. I'll asterisk the ones I won't do:

I won't fly if...

...the wind is more than 10 knots (in any direction!).
...the ceilings are below 4,000'.
...the runway isn't at least 5,000' long.
...the runway isn't at least 75' wide.
...over water.
**...over mountains (need mountain flying instruction first)
...at night.
...in a single.
**...to a grass field (rental restriction for now...I love landing on grass)
...to a class D airport.
...to a class C airport.
...to a class B airport.
...to an uncontrolled field
**...in IMC (even when IR rated!) (not IR rated)
...under VFR
...if I can't stay in radar contact.
...more than 50 miles from home.
...outside gliding distance of an airport.

When did this country become a bunch of namby-pamby momma's boys (and girls)?

I don't know but it's annoying. People are under the impression that all risk in life can be removed. Life has a 100% mortality rate. You can do fun and interesting stuff in the meantime or sit on the couch with bubble wrap taped around you.

 

[wbarnhill]

Don't forget the folks who won't fly without a working GPS...

 

[Mxfarm]

Ed, I frankly can't believe your still alive to ask the question.

marc

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Don't forget the folks who won't fly without a working GPS...

oops - you mean I've done screwed up again?

Ain't never flown WITH one (but my brother says they are handy).

(oh, and I can see avoiding class B...)

 

[gismo]

(oh, and I can see avoiding class B...)

Which, of course, is easier with a GPS.

 

[LearDriver]

Over the past 4-5 years if I were to combine all the limitations of people (non-students, they get a pass) on this board and the red board I would never fly....ever!

I won't fly if...

...the wind is more than 10 knots (in any direction!).
...the ceilings are below 4,000'.
...the runway isn't at least 5,000' long.
...the runway isn't at least 75' wide.
...over water.
...over mountains.
...at night.
...in a single.
...to a grass field.
...to a class D airport.
...to a class C airport.
...to a class B airport.
...to an uncontrolled field
...in IMC (even when IR rated!)
...under VFR
...if I can't stay in radar contact.
...more than 50 miles from home.
...outside gliding distance of an airport.

When did this country become a bunch of namby-pamby momma's boys (and girls)?

Some of those seem appropriate as limitations to a student pilots solo endorsement. However, most of those should have come off by the time they get their private.

I have seen over the years a fair amount of students that learn to fly because they are afraid of flying as a passenger on the airlines. Most of them that finish their training become private pilots that are still afraid of flying. The won't fly unless the universe is in perfect harmony. some won't fly if the wind is over 10 kts.

When I learned to fly, my last solo before my check ride was in the pattern with a crosswind right at the demonstrated limit. My instructor said if you can't do that today you won't need a check ride tomorrow. Because we don't pass off guys that can't fly all the maneuvers. But that was a different time. I liked it better the way it used to be.

 

[steingar]

If someone only wants to fly on perfect days to giant uncontrolled strips within 50nm with no traffic in the pattern that is their business. It's a free country, at least for now. I have sufficient confidence in my aircraft and abilities to perhaps do a bit more.

 

[BigAL]

LOL!!! I used to use Ed's list, I was a chicken s___.Then I was up a couple times(solo) getting bounced around like a ping-pong ball in a lottery drawing and could still land "safely". Now I gotta worry that "the boys" don't get too big so as to take me down w/them. Happened in college a few times, don't want it to happen again.

If ya want to fly, you'll find every reason to. If ya don't want to fly, you'll find every reason to.

 

[EdFred]

I should have qualified that it has been non-students. That list is a quasi-student guidline, but 2-3-4-5-600 hour pilots should not be using these as excuses not to fly. Mountains I can see without studying/training (I only studied, and I crossed the Rockies twice and the Sierras without dying).

IMNSHO - if you have more than 150 hours and are at least a private student and have more than 2 of these non-combined limitations you should really think about getting more training or surrendering your ticket.

Edited the OP to include winter, and clarify that students pilots are not being ragged on for this list.

 

[EdFred]

I've had my PP-ASEL for 6 months now. I'll asterisk the ones I won't do:

I won't fly if...

...the wind is more than 10 knots (in any direction!).
...the ceilings are below 4,000'.
...the runway isn't at least 5,000' long.
...the runway isn't at least 75' wide.
...over water.
**...over mountains (need mountain flying instruction first)
...at night.
...in a single.
**...to a grass field (rental restriction for now...I love landing on grass)
...to a class D airport.
...to a class C airport.
...to a class B airport.
...to an uncontrolled field
**...in IMC (even when IR rated!) (not IR rated)
...under VFR
...if I can't stay in radar contact.
...more than 50 miles from home.
...outside gliding distance of an airport.

When did this country become a bunch of namby-pamby momma's boys (and girls)?

I don't know but it's annoying. People are under the impression that all risk in life can be removed. Life has a 100% mortality rate. You can do fun and interesting stuff in the meantime or sit on the couch with bubble wrap taped around you.

Actually, that last sentence did happen. Of course it involved kidnapping the groom-to-be for a bachelor party.

 

[ScottM]

Actually, that last sentence did happen. Of course it involved kidnapping the groom-to-be for a bachelor party.

Can i wear the buble wrap in the cockpit and reduce crash risk?

 

[EdFred]

Can i wear the buble wrap in the cockpit and reduce crash risk?

Only if it is FAA approved!

 

[jtheune]

Don't forget the folks who won't fly without a working GPS...

A GPS is in my personal MEL but that's because I as based inside the SFRA ( ADIZ ) and being even a little bit off in your navigation has extremely severe repercussions.

 

[SCCutler]

I have a sort-of point system, as I might tone-down the scope of IMC I'd fly, depending upon recency of experience, and I'll sometimes call the flight off if there are pax and it is so windy or hot that it would be plain miserable.

But in general, if you never nudge outside the absolutely routine, you never improve skills, and stagnation breeds contempt, which in turn will kill you most surely.

Good topic, Ed.

 

[ScottM]

A GPS is in my personal MEL but that's because I as based inside the SFRA ( ADIZ ) and being even a little bit off in your navigation has extremely severe repercussions.

Do we need to update the acronym MLOD to be the MLORD?

Magenta Line of Regulatory Death?

 

[Tristar]

It's good to have limitations and as you get more comfortable with the idea of flying, many do wear off. I can remember not wanting to fly when there is wind more than 10 knots but just as people change over time so do your skills thus my tolerances are higher now.

The good thing about it is although if someone did combine all their fears into a list like you said, they of course would never fly. And those that have, don't fly. If I wasn't afraid to fly in thunderstorms, I may not be around to say I am. Even then that can't be defined as a fear but more of a fact that if your plane is ripped to pieces, your day is ruined.

But yes, I'm glad I'm not a definition of the list.

 

[fgcason]

You forgot a few:
Visbility under 10 ktmi and/or haze of any kind is a no go even if the weather is stable. That's hard IMC out west.
Any operations except TO/landings and ground reference maneuvers under 1500 AGL. (They'd roast you if they knew you did XC's at 500 AGL with nothign more than a map, compass and clock)

When did this country become a bunch of namby-pamby momma's boys (and girls)?

Not sure exactly but the trend definitely started becoming blatantly apparent in the early to mid 1990's. The things I grew up doing in the plane, and not in airplanes, very safely would get me chewed out bigtime nowadays.


Granted that I was very familiar with the specific runway, terrain, procedures, plane and had plenty of experience flying in and out of there but still...Imagine a CFI deliberately letting a student pilot leave sight of the airport on his own to go do this today, especially if the instructor had only landed there once before with the resident pilot: (Flame suit on and fire extinguisher at the ready cause I'll get blasted for this one for sure)

 

[jtheune]

Do we need to update the acronym MLOD to be the MLORD?

Magenta Line of Regulatory Death?

It's not so much to follow the MLORD as to know exactly where it is. Also as I seem to recall there was a case several years ago where a GPS track was used in the defense of a incursion.

 

[BigAL]

I should have qualified that it has been non-students. That list is a quasi-student guidline, but 2-3-4-5-600 hour pilots should not be using these as excuses not to fly. Mountains I can see without studying/training (I only studied, and I crossed the Rockies twice and the Sierras without dying).

IMNSHO - if you have more than 150 hours and are at least a private student and have more than 2 of these non-combined limitations you should really think about getting more training or surrendering your ticket.

Edited the OP to include winter, and clarify that students pilots are not being ragged on for this list.

You said it in the orig. post that students have a pass. I just thought it was funny and had to give my .02, keep the change. Funny/good list.

 

[OtisAir]

Sadly, a recurring "I won't" that I hear a lot is from pilots (some even with years of experience) who won't fly a route that requires them to talk to ATC at all. As a retired controller I just don't understand this.

Whenever we fly more than a few miles down the way, we always give ATC a holler for the extra set of eyes that they can usually provide. Not to mention shortcuts through controlled airspace and weather data. I usually file IFR, even on VMC days. It certainly wasn't VMC though this past Sunday when we flew up to Northampton. Flying through the red stuff was like watching a Chihauha at a swim meet with hippos - Lots of water (rain) and getting tossed about. I loved it though and had to laugh when we popped out the other side and Beth said I had a grin on the whole time! haha... she thinks I'm

 

[Areeda]

Hmmm, I know I shouldn't hit the "submit reply" button already, why am I still typing???

Let's see what bothers me the most

1. Whining and complaining or bitching and moaning about how other people do things when it has no impact on my flying.

2. People with overly strict personal minimums or people without personal minimums that think regulatory minimums are not worth the effort to even learn them.

3. Realizing my personal minimums are less restrictive than they need to be or realizing my personal minimums assumed I was a better pilot than I am today.

OK, my personal minimums are not restrictive enough. See I hit the submit reply button.

Joe

 

[SCCutler]

I cannot imagine why someone would avoid contact with controllers; in my experience, it makes for a safer flight for everyone.

With few exceptions, they are from the government, and they REALLY ARE here to help.

 

[ScottM]

I cannot imagine why someone would avoid contact with controllers; in my experience, it makes for a safer flight for everyone..

Ever fly in Chi-App airspace

There are times when I don't bother with ATC, i.e. when it CAVU, I know the area and what I need to do and there is no added value to speaking with them. But if it is an XC I will at least get FF. I don't mind talking to ATC.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Over the past 4-5 years if I were to combine all the limitations of people (I am not counting student pilot limits, students get a pass) on this board and the red board I would never fly....ever!

I won't fly if...

...the wind is more than 10 knots (in any direction!).
...the ceilings are below 4,000'.
...the runway isn't at least 5,000' long.
...the runway isn't at least 75' wide.
...over water.
...over mountains.
...at night.
...in a single.
...to a grass field.
...to a class D airport.
...to a class C airport.
...to a class B airport.
...to an uncontrolled field
...in IMC (even when IR rated!)
...under VFR
...if I can't stay in radar contact.
...more than 50 miles from home.
...in the winter.
...outside gliding distance of an airport.

When did this country become a bunch of namby-pamby momma's boys (and girls)?

I flew outside of every one of those "limitations" as a student pilot.

 

[dmccormack]

I have personal rules based on my currency, a/c familairity, current conditions, and type and number of passengers.

I help each student develop his/her own.

"Legal" isn't necessarily "safe" -- or even "smart."

 

[dmccormack]

Hmmm, I know I shouldn't hit the "submit reply" button already, why am I still typing???

Let's see what bothers me the most

1. Whining and complaining or bitching and moaning about how other people do things when it has no impact on my flying.

2. People with overly strict personal minimums or people without personal minimums that think regulatory minimums are not worth the effort to even learn them.

3. Realizing my personal minimums are less restrictive than they need to be or realizing my personal minimums assumed I was a better pilot than I am today.

OK, my personal minimums are not restrictive enough. See I hit the submit reply button.

Joe

Glad you did.. well said.

 

[wsuffa]

When did this country become a bunch of namby-pamby momma's boys (and girls)?

Biting tongue to avoid sending this spinning into The Zone.

 

[geneseib]

Did 13 of the 19 on one trip last week.

Over the past 4-5 years if I were to combine all the limitations of people (I am not counting student pilot limits, students get a pass) on this board and the red board I would never fly....ever!

I won't fly if...

...the wind is more than 10 knots (in any direction!).
...the ceilings are below 4,000'.
...the runway isn't at least 5,000' long.
...the runway isn't at least 75' wide.
...over water.
...over mountains.
...at night.
...in a single.
...to a grass field.
...to a class D airport.
...to a class C airport.
...to a class B airport.
...to an uncontrolled field
...in IMC (even when IR rated!)
...under VFR
...if I can't stay in radar contact.
...more than 50 miles from home.
...in the winter.
...outside gliding distance of an airport.

When did this country become a bunch of namby-pamby momma's boys (and girls)?

 

[el con]

As one of Ed's student's I agree with him--- to a degree.
All of his line items come with time, for some faster than others.
The goal would be to keep pushing and to have a goal to conquer all these fears.
I remember when he signed me off on crosswinds only up to 8 knot's-it was for a reason. a few months ago I had to lands in a 27kt crosswind(not totally direct cross wind) it was a confidence builder, a few weeks ago we landed at Iron Mt, Mi. ,when Diz opened the door it tore the door stop off and folded the door forward to the cowl, (wow I landed it that!!) another confidence builder. Grass strips ,I love them, very forgiving on side loads, night flying, so smooth the plane's ,ground towers, etc are more visible,fly in the rain,tish tosh just a power wash, and so on.
I would say multiple combinations of Ed's list may be more daunting.
I'm not taking any severe chances, but I'd rather die flying than gasping for my last breath in a rocking chair by the fireplace thinking of all the things I wish I would have done in my life.
Keep pushing your limits safely , it may safe your life.

 

[gismo]

IMNSHO - if you have more than 150 hours and are at least a private student and have more than 2 of these non-combined limitations you should really think about getting more training or surrendering your ticket.

I can't agree with you Ed, to me it's perfectly acceptable for a pilot to limit themselves to their "comfort zone" if that's what floats their boat. Why should someone who never intends to fly over mountains or fly beyond gliding distance from shore and only flies on sunny days surrender their ticket?

 

[tdager]

I will say that I do not fly at night much...but not really a hard and fast rule, but I just do not do it all that often.

Other than that...done almost all of them.

 

[AuntPeggy]

if
...the wind is more than gale force (in any direction!).
...the ceilings are below 1,000'.
...the runway isn't at least 1,000' long.
...the runway isn't at least 25' wide.
...over 4 hour leg.
...over the Alps.
...over an overcast.
...in a multi.
...to a grass field.
...to an ice field.
...to a class B airport.
...in IMC
...near lightning
...if I can't stay in radio contact.
...more than 5000 miles from home (unless you invite me to go with you).
...when I'm sick.
...when I'm really angry.
...more than 9 hours in a day.

 

[tonycondon]

blame air conditioning.

 

[jesse]

if
...the wind is more than gale force (in any direction!).
...the ceilings are below 1,000'.
...the runway isn't at least 1,000' long.
...the runway isn't at least 25' wide.
...over 4 hour leg.
...over the Alps.
...over an overcast.
...in a multi.
...to a grass field.
...to an ice field.
...to a class B airport.
...in IMC
...near lightning
...if I can't stay in radio contact.
...more than 5000 miles from home (unless you invite me to go with you).
...when I'm sick.
...when I'm really angry.
...more than 9 hours in a day.

What is wrong with a class B airport? Some are very GA friendly -- like Kansas City Intl.