Any one interested in a nice C-150

[Tom-D]

I have a nice 1974 C-150 that is owned by a customer who would like out of it.. it needs a top end and the cylinders are already ordered, total cost with fresh annual by me, and 4 new ECI titan cylinders $25k.

Paint is a 7, (needs minor touch up) interior is an 8, (not new but in really in nice condition) Radios ? (newer but I'll have to go look again).

Engine is a 0-200-A with 1150 Since major.
ACTT about 4k, with no damage history.

interested? call me 1-360-202-0961

I can do pictures if requested. (need E-addy)

 

[steingar]

$25K for a 150? Sounds about $10K too much for me based on your description. Good luck.

 

[Dean]

$25K for a 150? Sounds about $10K too much for me based on your description. Good luck.

I was going to say closer to $5K high at today's market. C-150 are still holding closer to what they were a year ago. Not like some of the other models out there.

 

[steingar]

With so-so paint and interior, a midtime engine, and needed mechanical work? And we don't even know about the avionics. Sounds like an ambitious estimate to me. Again, good luck to the OP.

 

[Tom-D]

With so-so paint and interior, a midtime engine, and needed mechanical work? And we don't even know about the avionics. Sounds like an ambitious estimate to me. Again, good luck to the OP.

I know the 150 market, it's not over priced. Some one who has bought a C-150 in the past year show me what they bought.

In the mean time I will consider the 3 posts as tire kickers.

Rember,,,,,,,, cash talks,,,,,,,,,,,, BS walks..

 

[steingar]

Could be, I haven't been in that market for awhile. I will defer to your expertise.

 

[tonycondon]

i have been watching the market for a while. and i wouldnt look at a 150 that was listed at 25K unless it was IFR equipped.

 

[schmookeeg]

last year -- 14 grand, great p&i, engine at 1800smoh, garmin GPS and kx155 in the panel.

that was when 150s were expensive.

we did the engine for 11.

I concur with the tire kickers.

 

[Tom-D]

The aircraft sold this afternoon as listed,,,,,,cash.

 

[steingar]

W.C. Fields once famously said that there's a sucker born every minute.

 

[PittsDriver]

W.C. Fields once famously said that there's a sucker born every minute.

...and the market price is set by what a buyer is willing to pay. Every airplane I've ever sold I've gotten more than 19 outta 20 people said I'd get - it only takes one to sell it.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Could be, I haven't been in that market for awhile. I will defer to your expertise.

I think the 150 is gaining the same appeal that the Cubs and Champs did 20 years ago. Many young guys learned to fly in 150s and it becomes a nostalgia thing to now own one. An airplane is worth whatever someone will pay for it. They're listing for similarly high prices here in Canada. A 150 with 4000 TT is a fairly young airplane, too, and may never have been beaten about in flight training.

I was an instructor in 150s/172s/182s/182RGs and a Champ and the Citabrias. The 150 was easily the most anemic performer of the bunch. Even the Champ, with its O-200, outran those 150s every way possible. Shoot, even a 90-hp Ercoupe I flew outran them in every way. But that means nothing where nostalgia and the desire to regain one's youth is concerned.

Dan

 

[Tom-D]

I think the 150 is gaining the same appeal that the Cubs and Champs did 20 years ago. Many young guys learned to fly in 150s and it becomes a nostalgia thing to now own one. An airplane is worth whatever someone will pay for it. They're listing for similarly high prices here in Canada. A 150 with 4000 TT is a fairly young airplane, too, and may never have been beaten about in flight training.

I was an instructor in 150s/172s/182s/182RGs and a Champ and the Citabrias. The 150 was easily the most anemic performer of the bunch. Even the Champ, with its O-200, outran those 150s every way possible. Shoot, even a 90-hp Ercoupe I flew outran them in every way. But that means nothing where nostalgia and the desire to regain one's youth is concerned.

Dan

This aircraft was a 1 owner (he bought it new) at 3997TT with 1150 on the bottom end and will have a new top end, a fresh annual, with all discrepancies repaired, 2 Mark 12D with GS, A hand held Lowrance 2000C, interior completed 2001, and paint completed 2001, and new glass lass year, new tires last year, and new strut cuffs this year.

The 4 cylinders were ordered and will be installed, test flown before delivery.

The C-150 market has held value because it is a vary cheap way to fly. and that is a big factor in this economy. There aren't many aircraft that are as new as most of the 150s that will operate on the budget that a 150 will.

But on this page and AOPA there are folks that will always say the aircraft is over priced no matter what it is, even before they ask questions or know what they are talking about. That to me is a sure sign of a tire kicker, the only thing they think about is price.

I believe this aircraft was a great aircraft priced right and it sold quick. simply because the only thing wrong with it was cosmedic

 

[steingar]

I speak from personal experience, and only defer because my experience is old.

 

[Tom-D]

I
I was an instructor in 150s/172s/182s/182RGs and a Champ and the Citabrias. The 150 was easily the most anemic performer of the bunch. Even the Champ, with its O-200, outran those 150s every way possible. Shoot, even a 90-hp Ercoupe I flew outran them in every way. But that means nothing where nostalgia and the desire to regain one's youth is concerned.

Dan

The 150 was built for the training fleet and were built hell for stout, and operate cheap, that is the majic that kept many flight schools in business.

 

[wabower]

Buyers have all the airplanes that are for sale to choose from, sellers have only one to sell. The "only takes one at my price" theory leads to many airplanes that are (finally) sold by the estate of the owner who never quite figured it out. Nobody "knows the market" when it comes to a particular airplane, simply too many variables to quantify for each situation. Some range of values can be reasonably determined, but some guy will always think his is worth more and some other guy will always allegedly know of one that sold for much less.

...and the market price is set by what a buyer is willing to pay. Every airplane I've ever sold I've gotten more than 19 outta 20 people said I'd get - it only takes one to sell it.

 

[ClimbnSink]

I think the 150 is gaining the same appeal that the Cubs and Champs did 20 years ago. Many young guys learned to fly in 150s and it becomes a nostalgia thing to now own one.

Yup- I started flying in 1985 in a 150. 1985 was the last year 152s were built, I'm just waiting to get a bit more gray so I can start spouting off about the best trainer ever, and how we all learned to fly in them little things back in the day, and boy were they cheap, only we didn't know it then. etc etc

 

[Tom-D]

Yup- I started flying in 1985 in a 150. 1985 was the last year 152s were built, I'm just waiting to get a bit more gray so I can start spouting off about the best trainer ever, and how we all learned to fly in them little things back in the day, and boy were they cheap, only we didn't know it then. etc etc

If you flew a new aircraft in 1985, you flew a 152.

 

[PittsDriver]

The "only takes one at my price" theory leads to many airplanes that are (finally) sold by the estate of the owner who never quite figured it out.

That is sadly true. But, I've decided that I can live with being the guy that sold his for the highest price and only the guy that bought it can say if he thinks he got a good deal or not.

All kinds of complex things drive the market for, well, anything really. For example, if there's a guy out there who's going through a divorce and has to liquidate the plane by a certain date or come up with the cash to give his ex-wife to take the pool boy to Aruba - that's the guy I want to buy from and the last thing I want to see on the market when I'm trying to sell. Right now, there are a lot of motivated sellers on high end aircraft and the prices are lower than ever. It's not astrophysics...

Certified check wielders can talk price. To everyone else, I'll get back to you...

 

[schmookeeg]

This aircraft was a 1 owner (he bought it new) at 3997TT with 1150 on the bottom end and will have a new top end, a fresh annual, with all discrepancies repaired, 2 Mark 12D with GS, A hand held Lowrance 2000C, interior completed 2001, and paint completed 2001, and new glass lass year, new tires last year, and new strut cuffs this year.

The 4 cylinders were ordered and will be installed, test flown before delivery.

Starting the thread with this data might have quashed a lot of speculation. I assumed you had stated the best case for the plane on the initial post.

I am cynical in aircraft sales. :smile:

 

[Dan Thomas]

The 150 was built for the training fleet and were built hell for stout, and operate cheap, that is the majic that kept many flight schools in business.

We got rid of them in favor of the 172 for two reasons. First, the O-200 often needs top-end work around half-time or a little later (100LL seemed to aggravate valve trouble and Mogas was no better) where the Lycomings don't make that sort of trouble, and second, we're at 3000 ASL and on hot days at gross the DA of 5000 and 6000 feet, sometimes more, made the 150's climb performance poor indeed. The students spent a lot of time and money just climbing, whether in the circuit or in the practice area. Since the airplane cost only $10 less an hour than a 172, the value just wasn't there for either us or the students.

150s are fine for the weekend flyer or for school operators at lower altitudes.

Dan

 

[Tom-D]

where the Lycomings don't make that sort of trouble, Dan

BS ..... they have as much valve problems as any engine running 100LL.

Every engine running 100LL will stick a valve at some point, so we lean lean and lean some more because the farther you are down the airway when that happens the better off you are.

when the 0-200 is run LOP we see the new after market cylinders going to TBO and beyond.

And remember, auto fuel is not the cure all for 100LL valve problems, it is just a different set of problems.

 

[ClimbnSink]

If you flew a new aircraft in 1985, you flew a 152.

They were older was pointing out the nostalgia factor of starting flying them in the last year of production.

 

[Dan Thomas]

BS ..... they have as much valve problems as any engine running 100LL.

Every engine running 100LL will stick a valve at some point, so we lean lean and lean some more because the farther you are down the airway when that happens the better off you are.

when the 0-200 is run LOP we see the new after market cylinders going to TBO and beyond.

And remember, auto fuel is not the cure all for 100LL valve problems, it is just a different set of problems.

We buy factory reman Lycomings, from O-235 thru O-320 to O-540, and never, ever have valve issues. Lycoming changed the valve guide material in the late '90s and they last a long time. These engines, seven of them, are used in flight training and get abused somewhat, but they keep going and are still strong and tight at TBO. Not once did we ever have such good service from O-200s or O-470s. Lycoming also has the sodium-filled valve stems, and haven't heard that Continental does yet. We got tired of regrinding or replacing O-200 exhaust valves after the guides wore and let the valve start hammering into the seat off-center.

We do what works for us, and Lycomings work.

Dan

 

[somorris]

NC18143: I have a C-150, and have recently stuck a valve. If you don't have a EGT or engine monitor, how do you manage the mixture to run LOP? I lean to max rpm like the POH says, but assume I am running ROP.

 

[somorris]

By the way, I think the C-150 is a great airplane. It doesn't get much respect, but great none the less.

 

[Tom-D]

NC19143: I have a C-150, and have recently stuck a valve. If you don't have a EGT or engine monitor, how do you manage the mixture to run LOP? I lean to max rpm like the POH says, but assume I am running ROP.

In any engine running the Marvel MA3- carb when you pull the mixture until it skips and then richen just enough to run smooth, you are LOP.

 

[jmaynard]

when the 0-200 is run LOP we see the new after market cylinders going to TBO and beyond.

How do you run an O-200 LOP??! That operation depends on having even fuel flow to all cylinders such that you can get them all there, and with a small EGT spread. My O-200, at least, is nowhere near that even, not even from one flight to the next. Sometimes, I see EGT spreads of 20 degrees from coolest to hottest, and other times it's over 100 degrees.

Edit:

In any engine running the Marvel MA3- carb when you pull the mixture until it skips and then richen just enough to run smooth, you are LOP.

You might be LOP on one cylinder, but I'll be really surprised if you're LOP on all four.

 

[Tom-D]

How do you run an O-200 LOP??! That operation depends on having even fuel flow to all cylinders such that you can get them all there, and with a small EGT spread. My O-200, at least, is nowhere near that even, not even from one flight to the next. Sometimes, I see EGT spreads of 20 degrees from coolest to hottest, and other times it's over 100 degrees.

Edit:

You might be LOP on one cylinder, but I'll be really surprised if you're LOP on all four.

When I have a 0-200 on my test cell I have a EGT probe in each exhaust and they show that all cylinders will be LOP when the engine starts to shake.

two of my 150 customers use the leaning process I discribe and all their plugs show an even burn over a years usage. I see no signs of the 0-200 running uneven fuel flows unless there is induction leak.

 

[Trapper John]

When I have a 0-200 on my test cell I have a EGT probe in each exhaust and they show that all cylinders will be LOP when the engine starts to shake.

two of my 150 customers use the leaning process I discribe and all their plugs show an even burn over a years usage. I see no signs of the 0-200 running uneven fuel flows unless there is induction leak.

Does your test cell use the same exhaust system as the aircraft? If not, I could see how you and Jay get different results.


Trapper John

 

[Tom-D]

Does your test cell use the same exhaust system as the aircraft? If not, I could see how you and Jay get different results.


Trapper John

Often the different results come from where the probes are placed.

 

[jmaynard]

Does your test cell use the same exhaust system as the aircraft? If not, I could see how you and Jay get different results.

The exhaust used on my airplane is manufactured by Custom Aircraft Parts as their part number 33500. There are pictures and drawings available on their web site.

I don't have locations for the EGT probes, but I do recall they're all pretty much the same distance down the pipe from the flange.

 

[tonycondon]

correct me if im wrong, but will the probe location matter if determining whether you are rich or lean of peak? I can understand how probe location would affect the actual temperature readout (cooler away from the cylinder), but I dont understand how it would skew finding peak EGT.

 

[Trapper John]

Often the different results come from where the probes are placed.

I was thinking more along the lines of how each cylinder flows, from intake through exhaust. From my gearhead days, engine builders would put a lot of effort into making sure each cylinder flowed equally and generated the same amount of power. Having an exhaust system with equal length tubes was a pretty big deal in making that work. From most of the actual aircraft exhaust systems I've seen, equal length exhaust path for each cylinder doesn't seem to happen. Consequently, some cylinders are going to peak sooner than others because of the unequal flow.


Trapper John

 

[Tom-D]

correct me if im wrong, but will the probe location matter if determining whether you are rich or lean of peak? I can understand how probe location would affect the actual temperature readout (cooler away from the cylinder), but I dont understand how it would skew finding peak EGT.

If the reading is slewed, by probe placement, it will slew your leaning technique, you will think that one cylinder has a higher temp than any other. when maybe it doesn't.

 

[tonycondon]

If the reading is slewed, by probe placement, it will slew your leaning technique, you will think that one cylinder has a higher temp than any other. when maybe it doesn't.

right, but i didnt think jay was talking about one cylinder running hotter than the other. he was talking about one cylinder running 20 deg ROP while the other was 100 ROP, or something like that. he was dealing with a relative temperature (relative to peak), not an absolute temperature.

 

[Tom-D]

right, but i didnt think jay was talking about one cylinder running hotter than the other. he was talking about one cylinder running 20 deg ROP while the other was 100 ROP, or something like that. he was dealing with a relative temperature (relative to peak), not an absolute temperature.

To get that wide of a spread there is some thing else going on.

My test cell has the probe right at the cylinder head where the exhaust gasket goes. Mounting the probe 3 inches down the pipe will drop the EGT 200-300 degrees, altering the mount position by a half inch up or down the pipe, will vary the temp by as much as 100 degrees.

I have seen the position vary as much as a whole inch across the 4 exhaust pipes. this leads the operator to think they have cylinder problems when in fact it is an indication problem.

 

[tonycondon]

To get that wide of a spread there is some thing else going on.

My test cell has the probe right at the cylinder head where the exhaust gasket goes. Mounting the probe 3 inches down the pipe will drop the EGT 200-300 degrees, altering the mount position by a half inch up or down the pipe, will vary the temp by as much as 100 degrees.

I have seen the position vary as much as a whole inch across the 4 exhaust pipes. this leads the operator to think they have cylinder problems when in fact it is an indication problem.

right, i agree that the actual temperature value recorded will vary depending on probe placement. but what I am saying is that the relative ROP/LOP value does not depend on probe placement. Its a relative measurement, not absolute.

right?

 

[Tom-D]

right, i agree that the actual temperature value recorded will vary depending on probe placement. but what I am saying is that the relative ROP/LOP value does not depend on probe placement. Its a relative measurement, not absolute.

right?

Burn temps are a factor of mixture, we vary the mixture until we see what we want.

As the mix goes from way rich to way lean it will rise to a point where it starts dropping, that is known as peak, if you continue to lean the temps will start to drop unil the engine starts to studder/stumble/vibrate. that is the point we stop and push the mixture toward the rich, until we are rich enough to run smooth.

that is a point near 50 degree lean of peak.

 

[jmaynard]

All of this discussion has me wanting to climb up to altitude and play with the red knob while watching the engine monitor.

Right now, I'm 1500 miles from my airplane, so I'm going from memory. The instruction I got from the factory pilot was to lean the mixture to 1380 F on the hottest cylinder, rich of peak. The Dynon EMS-D10 helpfully highlights that one on the display. Peak EGT is somewhere in the 1410-1420 F range, usually. (I think. I haven't gone looking for it (and yes, I know it'll vary a little), which is why I want to go play with the red knob.) The EGT probes are an inch or so down the pipe from the flange. When leaned that way, sometimes I see the low cylinder running around 1370, sometimes around 1350, sometimes around 1280. It varies from one flight to the next, and as I adjust the mixture on a given flight. It's not always the same cylinder, either. I don't know what makes it behave the way it does.