Beechcraft Skipper

taters

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Taters
Just curious if anyone here has any experience with the BE-77, I dont. I am exploring a possible addition to the training aircraft fleet at my operation . I have a bunch of time in other Beech products and I find the quality un-parralled in comparision to every other make I have flown. I am mainly concerned with the maintainance side of things in terms of how they hold up in the training environment, also are they slightly better on usefull load than say a 152? Any info appreciated

Thanks

Here is an example in case some are unfamiliar with the plane
 
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Clay,

Dan posted a review earlier this year...you can find it here.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21972

I have to admit that it would be nice to have a less expensive instrument platform. Plus it seems like a more comfortable ride than the 150 is for two people. The big question is how much rental would cost. It has to be attractive vs. the cherokee.
 
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I've never flown a Skipper--I flew a Beech Sierra which was decent but got nowhere near the POH advertised cruised and liked lots of runway. But that appears to have nothing in common with the Sierra.

It'd probably be an OK plane--personally I'm more interested in a retract but wouldn't want to pay a dollar more to fly it. :D
 
We had two Skippers at the Flight School I ran. I thought they were great little airplanes. We rented them for the same price as a 152 and new students seemed to prefer the nice interior and look of quality.
Couple maintenance items, tail tie down hit the ground frequently requiring rear fuselage repairs. (very effective elevator) Lead problems with the 0-235-L2c. I've heard of a new AD requiring replacement of the switch/circuit breakers. (expensive)
Good trainers, not fast, (building hours, not miles) and use more runway than a 152.
To this day if I had a choice I would rent a Skipper over a 152.
Dave
 
We had two Skippers at the Flight School I ran. I thought they were great little airplanes. We rented them for the same price as a 152 and new students seemed to prefer the nice interior and look of quality.
Couple maintenance items, tail tie down hit the ground frequently requiring rear fuselage repairs. (very effective elevator) Lead problems with the 0-235-L2c. I've heard of a new AD requiring replacement of the switch/circuit breakers. (expensive)
Good trainers, not fast, (building hours, not miles) and use more runway than a 152.
To this day if I had a choice I would rent a Skipper over a 152.
Dave

Thats what I'm after..the quality..I love how you can see all of the "bonanza parts" in the panel. Thanks for the input to all...definately gonna try and take a look at one these sometime. They are a definately a "girl" airplane though in terms of looks
 
The real downside to the Skipper is that it has the poorest performance of the "modern" 2 seat trainers.
 
I enjoyed flying the Skipper. It was one of the club planes at Aurora about 6 years ago. If you are looking for one, the owner of the plane may have a line on one. PM me and I will give you his phone number.:blueplane:
ApacheBob
 
AdamB on this board flies a skipper in his club. There is a skipper for sale at my filed. The guy up graded to a Baron. ( Quite and upgrade). I think it is way over priced but it is a very clean and nice looking plane and IIRC its well equipped.
 
Yeah we have 2 in our club. http://www.newenglandflyingclub.com/aircraft.html
They are a decent trainer, very solid platform, and pretty spacious inside all things considered.
Finding parts and the cost of parts can sometimes be an issue as mentioned above but our maintenance guy does a great job. The guys at the Beech Aero Club have been very helpful in that regard.
 
The real downside to the Skipper is that it has the poorest performance of the "modern" 2 seat trainers.

Yeah, but compared to Cessna 150/152 series, what difference is 4-5 knots?

Skipper benefits:
  1. Spacious interior
  2. Beech Build
  3. "Real Airplane" panel layout
  4. Good Control harmony
  5. Requires rudder
  6. Spinnable
  7. Predictable and benign slow flight and stall behavior
Skipper Disadvantages
  • Slow
  • Very Slow
  • Really, really slow
  • Anemic takeoff performance
 
Wow that Slow factor must be the common thing likning the Low-end Beech trainers. I have a decent block of time in a Sundowner (aka Slowdowner), and while it was spacious, built like a tank, and a real nice airplane nothing really happened very fast in it.
 
Wow that Slow factor must be the common thing likning the Low-end Beech trainers. I have a decent block of time in a Sundowner (aka Slowdowner), and while it was spacious, built like a tank, and a real nice airplane nothing really happened very fast in it.

That's good for a trainer, isn't it?
 
Wow that Slow factor must be the common thing likning the Low-end Beech trainers. I have a decent block of time in a Sundowner (aka Slowdowner), and while it was spacious, built like a tank, and a real nice airplane nothing really happened very fast in it.

Pete: I was in the Sundowner the one night a couple months ago joking with the tower controller about how some call me a slowdowner. He got a kick out of it. :D
 
Clay,

I'm not the first to tell you this but I think you're missing a huge opportunity. Lincoln, as you know, has few training airplanes to begin with which is sad for the size of the city. The guys upstairs have little planned for anything past instrument. Although I know that you're only part of an operation, I strongly feel that you should look into a complex airplane. Yes, it's possible the maintenance is a little higher but think of the opportunities that you'll be able to give to both your clients, CFI's and company alike. It would be possible to teach all the way through ATP when, currently, Instrument is the furthest anyone can go. Not to mention, the aircraft are faster and more appealing.

The Skipper could be a great addition to the private fleet but I also know you strongly need something bigger than the 150 for special clients if you don't plan to use the Cherokee.

That is my observation and I've heard the same thoughts from some locals.


Is the Beech Skipper in any relation to the Tomahawk?
 
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Yeah, but compared to Cessna 150/152 series, what difference is 4-5 knots?


Skipper benefits:
  1. Spacious interior
  2. Beech Build
  3. "Real Airplane" panel layout
  4. Good Control harmony
  5. Requires rudder
  6. Spinnable
  7. Predictable and benign slow flight and stall behavior
But that's not all! Act now and you'll receive...

Skipper Disadvantages
  • Slow
  • Very Slow
  • Really, really slow
  • Anemic takeoff performance

I'd argue that for initial training, the first three disadvantages are non-issues. Learning how to handle a faster plane later is not a big deal, the whole point of primary training is to get the basics down. For that, speed is not really an issue. Anemic takeoff performance might teach students the importance of checking that POH for what the plane's takeoff performance is prior to takeoff. That's not a bad thing, either.

The advantages all make sense for a primary trainer. Again, the student can learn slow flight and stalls that are more difficult once they're ready to upgrade to a more difficult aircraft.

But, I have zero experience with a Beech anything, and tend to be partial to Pipers and Mooneys.
 
Seriously Ted--change your name--you're busting the site.
 
I'd argue that for initial training, the first three disadvantages are non-issues.

Oh absolutely! I remember the first time thinking -- "Holy cow there's plenty of time to arrange a landing in this thing!" It all happens so slowly it's as if each event is completely discrete.

But...

The climbout to safe altitude and place to practice took forever, eating into some of the lesson time. That's where a bit more power would come in handy.


But, I have zero experience with a Beech anything, and tend to be partial to Pipers and Mooneys.

..And once you fly a Beech, you'll wonder why you wasted so much time in lesser airplanes....

;)
 
The climbout to safe altitude and place to practice took forever, eating into some of the lesson time. That's where a bit more power would come in handy.

I know what you mean. In the summer I've had several short trips (30-50nm) where I was never able to get up to the VFR cruising altitude I had intended prior to having to decend and land.
 
Yeah, but compared to Cessna 150/152 series, what difference is 4-5 knots?


Skipper benefits:
  1. Spacious interior
  2. Beech Build
  3. "Real Airplane" panel layout
  4. Good Control harmony
  5. Requires rudder
  6. Spinnable
  7. Predictable and benign slow flight and stall behavior
Skipper Disadvantages
  • Slow
  • Very Slow
  • Really, really slow
  • Anemic takeoff performance

I've never seen the POH, but isn't the useful load worse on the Skipper than on most PA-38's or C-152's?
 
Just curious if anyone here has any experience with the BE-77, I dont. I am exploring a possible addition to the training aircraft fleet at my operation . I have a bunch of time in other Beech products and I find the quality un-parralled in comparision to every other make I have flown. I am mainly concerned with the maintainance side of things in terms of how they hold up in the training environment, also are they slightly better on usefull load than say a 152? Any info appreciated

Thanks

Here is an example in case some are unfamiliar with the plane

I know where you can get a Sport III for $20,000.00 nice plane. I do not know much about Beechcraft I think it is a little bigger.

Dan
 
AdamB on this board flies a skipper in his club. There is a skipper for sale at my filed. The guy up graded to a Baron. ( Quite and upgrade). I think it is way over priced but it is a very clean and nice looking plane and IIRC its well equipped.


Bwaaaahahahahahahaha --- the guy wants $40k for it. $40k?!!!! He's smoking something. Crack maybe. No Skipper is worth more'n $25k, max.

Nice looking planes. Solid little trainer. Built like a brick ****house, compared to a 152. Not worth $0.01 over $25k on a really good day.
 
In defense of "slow" Beech trainers, they really aren't all that slow. I posted pix of my old Sundowner on the red board showing 125ktas without massive exertion. I cruised at 115ktas, 9gph, about 63%pwr IIRC. Certainly competitive with the 172. A bit slower than the Archer, but no scooching your fanny over the pax seat to get into the drivers seat.

Don't bad mouth 'em if you haven't flown 'em.
 
Does the Beechcraft have time limited wings similar to the Piper Tomahawk?
 
In defense of "slow" Beech trainers, they really aren't all that slow. I posted pix of my old Sundowner on the red board showing 125ktas in a 90 degree dive, Full throttle, with me up on the glareshield against the windscreen.


There fixed it for ya.


:devil: :D
 
Anthony- you forgot to mention the down draft helping him :)
 
In defense of "slow" Beech trainers, they really aren't all that slow. I posted pix of my old Sundowner on the red board showing 125ktas without massive exertion. I cruised at 115ktas, 9gph, about 63%pwr IIRC. Certainly competitive with the 172. A bit slower than the Archer, but no scooching your fanny over the pax seat to get into the drivers seat.

Don't bad mouth 'em if you haven't flown 'em.

Don't know about Sundowners, etc.

The Skipper maxed at 90 KIAS, full throttle, lightly loaded.
 

I have time in the Skipper and Sport and Sundowner. Like I told my friends when I was flight instructing if you never flown a Skipper then don’t say it’s a Tomahawk. I also flew with a student that had his on Tomahawk and I was always think how much better the Skipper cabin was and how it handled better. When building the Skipper Beech fix the all the bad, Piper got wavers for the Tomahawk. Beech would build ¾ of a Skipper a day; Piper would turn out 12 Tomahawks a day. The Skipper didn’t really spin it was more o a spiral and we all know how bad the Tomahawk would spin.

The Sport and Sundowner may be slow but they are cheap to own. I’m working on some wheel faring for them.

If you look at the thickness of the wing skin and spar they are built like a truck. I had 2 friends that crashed on a hill in their Musketeer and they told me afterward that if they would have been in a Cessna they would have died. The wing spar of the Beech kept them from sliding down the hill side after hitting a tree, the Cessna wing would have sheared off.
 
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The Skipper maxed at 90 KIAS, full throttle, lightly loaded.

Got my PP in a Skipper. With a light head wind freeway traffic will actually pass you.

Other advantages as trainer:

  • Relatively cheap cost (guessing based on FBO wet rates)
  • Punishes sloppy footwork during stall practice (huge, huge wing drop)
  • IIRC Vfe is near or just above the Skipper's top speed.
  • Va is nearly unattainable without some serious effort
Disadvantages as trainer:

  • Vfe & Va are non issue 95% of the time. Some adjustment needed when transitioning to "bigger" planes like a 172.
  • Can not climb through down drafts common to parts of SoCal and the SW.
  • Can not climb worth anything with flaps. (my first FBO lost one that way.)
  • Occasional low voltage issues with strobes, nav, & landing light on during final.
It's probably just me, but x-wind landings in that thing is 3rd scariest thing I've done in aviation.
 
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