Night Engine Failures

Tristar said:
My conclusion is that I'm not going to stop flying at night just because there are more risks. You take higher risks when you fly in mountains, over water, and even in some airspace. Whats the difference? Nothing, just the way that you understand the different risks and plan accordingly. Understandably everyone has a different view on what they'd do but as stated earlier, many of the outcomes are really a shot in the dark where luck honestly outweighs skill.
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If possible try to plan your night flight with enough gliding distance to the nearby airport. As far as I remember there are a lot of small airfield in Texas. In fact I had to land on one of them due to little "emergency" once.

P.S. When I fly long cross country I usually write down/draw all the airports, freqs, runways and etc along my route on a piece of paper. It actually served me well in few situations..And it's defiantly easier to access than
maps or AFD :)
 
astanley said:
This idea really intrigues me. One, because if you've committed to the landing site, why not take the "helicopter" approach and prepare to land with as MUCH energy as possible. That energy, down low, is all the life insurance you have (since when you've committed, and low, you're generally slow with a short margin for error).
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I'd have to disagree. I want to have the absolute minimum amount of energy to dissipate in a forced landing/collision. Specifically, I want minimum kinetic energy, and that means minimum velocity.

This is a time when pokey airplanes like 152s and 172s are your friend. Low stall speed, low kinetic energy, better chance of survival.


Trapper John
 
TMetzinger said:
<snip>

My strategy would be to land NEAR a road if at all possible, but not on it. I figure as long as I maintain aircraft control and keep my energy low that we'll be OK. I expect that landing in the tops of trees will actually help absorb a lot of energy, though there may be a problem with egress once we stop moving. Landing near a road can help as the cars should notice the event and alert the authorities.
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This is the best plan in my opinion. I would have brought it up if you hadn't already done so.
My strategy is head towards a road if possible. This is the best place I can identify as likely landable (expect for an airport). 2nd criteria is look for a dark (open) place next to the road. I would only land on the road if I thought there was good chance not hurting anyone else, otherwise I would land next to road. At least near the road there is a good chance someone will notice me and call for assistance.

Best thing about roads is the fire trucks and ambulance should not take to long to get to you.

Land in the middle of nowhere and they may not find you for a year or more.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Tristar said:
My conclusion is that I'm not going to stop flying at night just because there are more risks. You take higher risks when you fly in mountains, over water, and even in some airspace. Whats the difference? Nothing, just the way that you understand the different risks and plan accordingly. Understandably everyone has a different view on what they'd do but as stated earlier, many of the outcomes are really a shot in the dark where luck honestly outweighs skill.
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Everyone needs to make their own risk/reward evaluation and operate in their comfort zone.

IMO, if a highway is available, I'm going to take the highway. Although, if there is room, I would try to land to the side possibly on the shoulder.
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I'd rethink the side/shoulder idea, myself. Lots more signs, delineator posts, fences and the like at the side of the road than in the middle. Plus, with the slopes of ditches, I don't want to snag something, get rotated toward the ditch and get flipped inverted because of the ditch slope, expecially in a low-wing aircraft.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
I'd rethink the side/shoulder idea, myself. Lots more signs, delineator posts, fences and the like at the side of the road than in the middle. Plus, with the slopes of ditches, I don't want to snag something, get rotated toward the ditch and get flipped inverted because of the ditch slope, expecially in a low-wing aircraft.
Trapper John
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Point taken
 
When preparing students for their first dual night flight, I recant the following old pilot axiom:
When making an emergency landing at night, at about 100 feet above the ground, turn on the landing light. If you don't like what you see, turn it off...

Dennis Glaeser
 
Just remember that kinetic energy increases with the square of the speed. Twice the speed, 4x the energy to be dissipated by your collision.

I always fly high at night. Usually 11-12,000'. Of course, that might not be doable for everybody due to O2 issues. At that altitude, I usually have at least 15NM for the glide, which is almost always enough to make it to an airport in California. Obviously, that's not necessarily the case in other states.

If I had to make an off airport landing, I'd go for a freeway if there's one nearby. Traffic usually isn't that bad at night. If there's no freeway, I'll go for the unlit area and "land" at the lowest possible speed. As long as it's not a head on collision with a rock, that will probably be survivable, and even more so with a 5 point seatbelt.

-Felix
 
Good discussion. Since nobody's mentioned it, if your plane had a BRS, would you consider deploying it?
 
Trapper John said:
Everyone needs to make their own risk/reward evaluation and operate in their comfort zone.

I'd rethink the side/shoulder idea, myself. Lots more signs, delineator posts, fences and the like at the side of the road than in the middle. Plus, with the slopes of ditches, I don't want to snag something, get rotated toward the ditch and get flipped inverted because of the ditch slope, expecially in a low-wing aircraft.


Trapper John
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Very true. The shoulder is usually not a good place to be in any vehicle. I've been through the shoulder experience in a car - hit the median, over to the other shoulder, flip twice and land on the door. Can't recommend it, although it is evidently survivable in a car with airbags at 70 mph ;)
 
:D
sdflyer said:
Obliviously its a good practice to check highway traffic before night flight :D

Seriously, you are right freeways never empty, but still you have a chance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nQ-kpZm6j0
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Obviously thats not a SoCal freeway.:D

Only 2 lanes each way, you sure that's not a road?:D
Besides, that was way too far without an overhead sign or sign in the median like on the 10 or the 60.
 
I like the quarry story: makes a good point about why you shouldn't head for a dark patch automatically.

Quarries, landfills, waste treatment pools, etc... from a few thousand feet up on a dark night they can all look like a decent field or a lake or pond. Not that water is the best choice, either... especially in the dark.

I have little experience flying at night, but from what others have told me and what I've determined thinking about this while aloft at night, I think if there is not sufficient moonlight or urban lights reflected off clouds, you're better off- initially, anyway- heading towards lights. At least you may have a chance of seeing your spot in some detail before you have to commit to it.
would I take a well-lit roadway despite traffic, wires, etc over some dark void? You betcha. People have dropped onto trees or brush with some success in the daytime, but for night emergency landings, even dodging wires, poles and traffic would be safer than trying that, or some field. Too much traffic? Maybe the median, or a rest area,truck weigh station, etc. There are often service roads and railroad lines alongsdie main arteries, too... not the best place to land, but there should be light from the highway to help you see what you're doing.
And as stated earlier, if you're near or on a road, at least they'll find you and help you sooner.

Fields are often full of hidden dangers that can surprise you even in the daytime... other than knowing you won't hurt anybody else, I can't see any benefit in looking for any clearing that is in darkness. And if it looks clear only because there are no lights in it, well, heck... it could be woods. You won't know for sure until it's too late.

Off the top of my head, I can recall hearing of a few successful (as in nobody killed)night landings on or near roads, and even one into a pretty small parking lot in an urban area. Can't think of one into woods or even an agricultural field, although I'm sure it's been done.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Good discussion. Since nobody's mentioned it, if your plane had a BRS, would you consider deploying it?
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Once over dark area, yes I'd consider it. It takes the forward momentum out of the equation. Just hope not to get impelled by some tree or lone 2x4 on the way down. :hairraise:
 
Pi1otguy said:
Once over dark area...
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Wind drift can be hard to determine in the dark... Hopefully your "dark area" extends for some distance in the prevailing wind direction.

This raises a secondary question; how low would you go before pulling the chute? The POH's minimum, a little higher than that, or significantly higher than that (and hope for the best)?
 
No way in a lit area. I'm not taking out innocents; I'll not have that stain on my soul. AN unlit area adjacent to a lit one? Sure.

I doubt you can see much of anything until it is way too late to do anything about it. I can never see the runway surface until I'm about to land on it despite all the lights.
 
Tristar, somewhere backa few years is an Aviation Safety article on this very topic :). I used to do the flybuddy VFR "guerilla night landing" waypoint thing below the Chicago Bravo at night (flying a Mooney). There were about eighty surviveable waypoints spread about the metro, and they would show on "go to nearest".

I scouted them out mostly on the ground with a handheld GPS and entered them manually.

If you know Chicago, the 59th street Midway (site of the columbian exposition), the Metropolitan Sanitary Canal right of way, Archer avenue (diagonal, but has SOME wires), certain stretches of the Dan Ryan Expy w/o wires, etc, etc.

Other than that the strategy was to fly HIGH (once out of the under-bravo space) and always have an airport in glide distance.

The only exception to this was the Rocky Mountain intermountain airports. And it was for that reason that I went to Seneca II with Merlins- SE ceiling is over 14,000 on one at gross.
 
Pi1otguy said:
:D

Obviously thats not a SoCal freeway.:D

Only 2 lanes each way, you sure that's not a road?:D
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Actually if you travel far enough some freeways become only two lanes:)

Besides, that was way too far without an overhead sign or sign in the median like on the 10 or the 60.
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Equally likely you may tangle with the electric wires in some dark area. In case of free ways those signs at least will be lighted up :)
 
steingar said:
Dead people can't tell you whether they flew into the crash. Its a complete and utter crapshoot, the biggest roll of the dice you'll ever make. Some people die, some make it fine. Once the engine quits at night Murphy rules. Anything else is just plain delusional.
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Call me a wuss if you will, but that is why I don't fly XC at night. Yes, I'll fly local at night with a safety pilot to stay current, but I know the lay of the land here.

My job is to keep my family safe, and putting them in a single engine can and going XC at night just doesn't seem prudent.

Likewise, I don't do day IFR over widespead areas of LIFR. No matter how "mad your skillz", when you pop out at 50agl, you're gonna eat what you see.

I'm really a twin guy without the twin budget :-(
 
Bill Jennings said:
I'm really a twin guy without the twin budget :-(
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I heard that actually people have more chances to kill themselves by turning toward critical engine in light twin than in single :)
 
I read all the posts and was surprised that there is no mention of the obvious "solution" to single engine failure at night (with the close exception of the BRS, bravo)

FREEKING PARACHUTES!

Now don't bother to go telling me all the reasons parachutes suck for this; egress, landing in the dark, etc. Of course it's not going to be easy. But, having the option is better than NOT having the option. If the aircraft is not spinning crazily out of control and even a little controllable and you are highly motivated you are going to be able to get out, according to those who have done it successfully.

In the old days, so I'm told, and perhaps in days gone by in the air force, it was mandatory to wear parachutes if flying single engine at night or single engine IFR. Back then the engines were not quite as reliable as today so it was an obvious requirement.

Engines may fail less today but the survivability of dead engine night landings probably hasn't improved much.

Sure, flying in the local pattern at night isn't too bad. You've got a known easily visible place to put her down if the fan stops. Now imagine pulling the power on downwind AND turning off the runway lights. Not too hard to imagine taking out some runway lights, bouncing hard, collapsing the nose gear, scraping a wing tip... What do you think the odds are of you making a perfect landing under those conditions? Now multiply that by the elements of: unknown wind, terrain, obstacles, surprise/fear...

Even here in Farm Country on a moon lit night where it's easy to pick out giant flat ag fields you run some serious risks. You aren't going to see fences, drainage draws, undulations, till on final and that's IF your landing light works. (TURN IT OFF!)

Tony C and I do this in broad freeking daylight in nice easy and slow gliders with spoiler assisted approaches and it still gets the adrenalen pumping.

When I started flying power with Tony I was amazed that everyone in GA goes around flying at night without parachutes. INSANE! Tony and I used our glider parachutes at my insistence and talked at length about how and when we might use them. We had one return home IFR at night without the chutes and I still reflect on what would have happened if the engine quit.

I also ponder with trepidation what we might have had to do with chutes. It wouldn't be an easy decision. It has to be made ahead of time.

I'm fairly certain that the survivability of a night landing in unknown conditions in a parachute is dubious but almost totally certain that it's less dubious than a night landing in an unpowered single engine aircraft. Basic phyiscs.

Sure I feel like a stupid freek flying around in 172s with parachutes but I just have to remind myself how I'll feel if I ever need one and don't have it. Yea, they cost $$ but whats your life worth? They cost less than another engine!

mm
 
wby0nder said:
I read all the posts and was surprised that there is no mention of the obvious "solution" to single engine failure at night (with the close exception of the BRS, bravo)

FREEKING PARACHUTES!

Now don't bother to go telling me all the reasons parachutes suck for this; egress, landing in the dark, etc. Of course it's not going to be easy. But, having the option is better than NOT having the option. If the aircraft is not spinning crazily out of control and even a little controllable and you are highly motivated you are going to be able to get out, according to those who have done it successfully.

In the old days, so I'm told, and perhaps in days gone by in the air force, it was mandatory to wear parachutes if flying single engine at night or single engine IFR. Back then the engines were not quite as reliable as today so it was an obvious requirement.

Engines may fail less today but the survivability of dead engine night landings probably hasn't improved much.

Sure, flying in the local pattern at night isn't too bad. You've got a known easily visible place to put her down if the fan stops. Now imagine pulling the power on downwind AND turning off the runway lights. Not too hard to imagine taking out some runway lights, bouncing hard, collapsing the nose gear, scraping a wing tip... What do you think the odds are of you mak, etc. Of course it's not going to be easy. But, having the option is better than NOT having the option. If the aircraft is not spinning crazily out of control and even a little controllable and you are highly motivated you are going to be able to get out, according to those who have done it successfully.

In the old days, so I'm told, and perhaps in days gone by in the air force, it was mandatory to wear parachutes if flying sking a perfect landing under those conditions? Now multiply that by the elements of: unknown wind, terrain, obstacles, surprise/fear...

Even here in Farm Country on a moon lit night where it's easy to pick out giant flat ag fields you run some serious risks. You aren't going to see fences, drainage draws, undulations, till on final and that's IF your landing light works. (TURN IT OFF!)

Tony C and I do this in broad freeking daylight in nice easy and slow gliders with spoiler assisted approaches and it still gets the adrenalen pumping.

When I started flying power with Tony I was amazed that everyone in GA goes around flying at night without parachutes. INSANE! Tony and I used our glider parachutes at my insistence and talked at length about how and when we might use them. We had one return home IFR at night without the chutes and I still reflect on what would have happened if the engine quit.

I also ponder with trepidation what we might have had to do with chutes. It wouldn't be an easy decision. It has to be made ahead of time.

I'm fairly certain that the survivability of a night landing in unknown conditions in a parachute is dubious but almost totally certain that it's less dubious than a night landing in an unpowered single engine aircraft. Basic phyiscs.

Sure I feel like a stupid freek flying around in 172s with parachutes but I just have to remind myself how I'll feel if I ever need one and don't have it. Yea, they cost $$ but whats your life worth? They cost less than another engine!

mm
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I don't like this. My life is not worth more than the family on the ground that is killed or maimed when my plane crashes into them, especially considering I could have probably had a chance at surviving and there being 0 fatality by landing the place where I could.

Aside from aerobatic flight, I can't fathom any reasons to rely on a parachute, BRS or personal.
 
One Of my Malibu customers (N9106V) lost the engine after takeoff out of Milwaukee at night. At 200-300 ft he couldn't do the 180. I don't think I have been there but I understand it's crowded. He headed for the black spot and pushed it down to the ground. The Malibu is destroyed and in the junkyard, he hurt his hand. He has a 340 now. One of the noted MMOPA instructors teaches an interesting night time emergency landing method.

Regards, Kevin
 
Something else that might help your chances? How about a night vision device (NVD) of some sort? A huge range of types are available, from $10K+ ANVIS pilot goggles, to $2500 single tube gen 3 infantry goggles, to $500 surplus Russian goggles, to $150 monoculars. You get what you pay for of course.

A cheap NVD is not going to be terribly helpful, but might let you miss the major obstacles in your landing path. The really good ones (gen 3) would probably do a good job of letting you pick a reasonable spot, and refine your approach as you got closer.

Just a thought.
 
There are envelope limitations to the BRS and even to open 'chuting out of a GA aircraft. At 1000 agl below the Bravo overhang, that envelope is pretty darned tight.

And there is NO SIGN that C90 is going to let any flivver in. NONE at all....(unless of course we're going into ORD or MDY and then they keep you low anyway....)
 
SkyHog said:
I don't like this. My life is not worth more than the family on the ground that is killed or maimed when my plane crashes into them, especially considering I could have probably had a chance at surviving and there being 0 fatality by landing the place where I could.

Aside from aerobatic flight, I can't fathom any reasons to rely on a parachute, BRS or personal.
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Lets not forget in-flight fire.
But thats another flaming can of worms...
MM
 
NRST button on GPS (even portables) does all that, with current heading/distance info. One more button-stroke paints a line on the map.

sdflyer said:
If possible try to plan your night flight with enough gliding distance to the nearby airport. As far as I remember there are a lot of small airfield in Texas. In fact I had to land on one of them due to little "emergency" once.

P.S. When I fly long cross country I usually write down/draw all the airports, freqs, runways and etc along my route on a piece of paper. It actually served me well in few situations..And it's defiantly easier to access than
maps or AFD :)
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wabower said:
NRST button on GPS (even portables) does all that, with current heading/distance info. One more button-stroke paints a line on the map.
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True.

But there's one feature I wish the 430/530 had - only show airports within a pre-programmed glide ratio. My old LORAN can do that, why not the GPS?

-Felix
 
bbchien said:
Tristar, somewhere backa few years is an Aviation Safety article on this very topic :). I used to do the flybuddy VFR "guerilla night landing" waypoint thing below the Chicago Bravo at night (flying a Mooney). There were about eighty surviveable waypoints spread about the metro, and they would show on "go to nearest".

I scouted them out mostly on the ground with a handheld GPS and entered them manually.

If you know Chicago, the 59th street Midway (site of the columbian exposition), the Metropolitan Sanitary Canal right of way, Archer avenue (diagonal, but has SOME wires), certain stretches of the Dan Ryan Expy w/o wires, etc, etc.
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That's an interesting idea. Have known survivable waypoints keyed into the GPS. It'd still be tricky setting up the approach.

I figure if you can land at Gastons at night, why not anywhere else! ;)

The "Oh $*%#!!!" approach.
 
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Here are some tips from the AOPA site:
http://www.aopa.org/pilot/features/inflight9911.html

I am concerned about it, I've done quite a bit of night over nasty terrain in sel, and have no good or easy answers. We lost a well-respected pilot and MD several years back in a night forced landing too. Perfect landing, ok spot but one tree in a large pasture.
 
I strongly lean toward flying a twin at night, but then, I strongly lean toward flying a twin during the day <g>.

Interesting points and they depend on several things: ambient level of light, where are you? There are places in southeast Texas dark means forest. In west Texas, NM, AZ lots of desert. Over Dallas, roads or RR tracks may pretty much be it. Yes, there are some large parking lots, but the Baron would touch down pretty fast. Don't forget the plane may float a bit if you pull back the prop.

Don't see any discussion of pitching to minimum rate of descent v. best glide. If going into trees at night, I'd want that pitch if I couldn't tell exactly where the trees began (dark night). Of course, if I could tell where the treeline began, I'd try to hit the trees just above stall speed with the nose a bit high (wouldn't want to drop the nose into the trees by stalling just above them).

Lots of consider and if not over very familiar terrain, luck will play a role as to what's around when the engine gets quiet. Like Tristar, I like to fly higher. More time to perform emergency procedures, call for help with likelihood of reaching someone and better glide distance.

I lean toward off but near the road if I have a choice. I'd want a lot of ambient light to land on a road. An interstate could work, but a rural two lane I lean toward landing near but not on in my area. Emergency folks could get to me quicker near a road; all sorts of stuff on it I might not be able to see at night. I mountains, the two lane road may be a better choice. In the flat lands around Tony, I strongly lean toward a field near a road.

Best,

Dave
 
Auburn_CFI said:
No big deal but it was actually Southern Airways flt. 242 that crashed on the highway. My dad was friends with both the Captain and Co-pilot. This accident changed the way he flew his entire career. Anyhow, just thought I would mention it.
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You are absolutely correct, and my apologies... I'd been saying Eastern while meaning Southern while talking about this accident all day.
 
Alright I dont read much on here but I'll post my story...

I was a student pilot flying a Cessna 152 from Erie, PA to Rostraver, PA on a december evening. It was just after dark and long story short I was at 3,000ft and had carb ice causing engine failure. I declared an emergency with approach and started my re-start checklists. (Note: as a controller myself, a VFR flight plan would have been useless in this situation, I was on flight following and that very much could have saved my life...as they had the state police and the local life flight already notified).

I saw a road and decided that was my best bet (as everything else was pretty much dark). As I descended I saw there we're cars in the vicinity of where I would land and decided to side step to the dark patch beside the road. I told approach that I wouldnt be able to make the road and that was my last contact with them. As I came down through 100ft agl, I noticed that I was prety much screwed as I was coming down in a heavily wooded area. I slowed the aircraft to just above stall and as I started to clip the trees I pulled up to stall the aircraft into the thicket. The aircraft slowed to a very minimal forward speed before coming down nose first about 50 feet. The engine mount/firewall was bent upwards at a 45 degree angle and the panel buckled right down the center. The impact broke my right ankle and, more severely, my face broke the yoke rod in half about halfway between the yoke and the panel. This did a pretty number to my jaw and to save nasty details, now it was pretty much non-existent from my rear molars forward. I managed to get out of the aircraft and by the grace of god I had wrecked in the backyard of a retired vet. They usually went to their weekly dinner at church that night but for some reason decided to stay home. I pounded on their door after staggering to their house and you should have seen the look on her face when she saw a jawless kid standing at her front door. She called 911 while the retired vet started working on my face to control the bleeding. Ironically I was on board a Sikorsky S-76 m(my first helo ride) about 10 minutes later and 10 minutes after that I was rolling into Allegheny General Hosp., and the ER.

I cant thank Pittsburgh TRACON enough for their efforts in getting the responders in order prior to contact with the ground.

IF ANYONE was flying for USAir or PSA (Bluestreak) that night and was helping me with my checklists on departure freq, I want to say THANK YOU! very much. It was very comforting as a student at the the time to hear a calm voice reciting my checklist.


Frankly, I dont like to fly single engine at night and will argue that it is not needed. Ive seen numerous accidents in my career so far of single engine operations over wooded terrain that wouldve been prevented if flying a multi-engined aircraft.

Thats my two cents. Keep the blue side up and Green Between.
 
Wow Clint, thanks for sharing your story - that was my first time hearing the whole thing. I didn't realize that the injury to your jaw was so severe - the doctors did a great job patching you up as to look at you now you'd never know. I'm also glad to know that you continue flying even after such an ordeal. Luck was definitely on your side.
 
ATCT_ said:
Alright I dont read much on here but I'll post my story...

I was a student pilot flying a Cessna 152 from Erie, PA to Rostraver, PA on a december evening. It was just after dark and long story short I was at 3,000ft and had carb ice causing engine failure. I declared an emergency with approach and started my re-start checklists. (Note: as a controller myself, a VFR flight plan would have been useless in this situation, I was on flight following and that very much could have saved my life...as they had the state police and the local life flight already notified).

I saw a road and decided that was my best bet (as everything else was pretty much dark). As I descended I saw there we're cars in the vicinity of where I would land and decided to side step to the dark patch beside the road. I told approach that I wouldnt be able to make the road and that was my last contact with them. As I came down through 100ft agl, I noticed that I was prety much screwed as I was coming down in a heavily wooded area. I slowed the aircraft to just above stall and as I started to clip the trees I pulled up to stall the aircraft into the thicket. The aircraft slowed to a very minimal forward speed before coming down nose first about 50 feet. The engine mount/firewall was bent upwards at a 45 degree angle and the panel buckled right down the center. The impact broke my right ankle and, more severely, my face broke the yoke rod in half about halfway between the yoke and the panel. This did a pretty number to my jaw and to save nasty details, now it was pretty much non-existent from my rear molars forward. I managed to get out of the aircraft and by the grace of god I had wrecked in the backyard of a retired vet. They usually went to their weekly dinner at church that night but for some reason decided to stay home. I pounded on their door after staggering to their house and you should have seen the look on her face when she saw a jawless kid standing at her front door. She called 911 while the retired vet started working on my face to control the bleeding. Ironically I was on board a Sikorsky S-76 m(my first helo ride) about 10 minutes later and 10 minutes after that I was rolling into Allegheny General Hosp., and the ER.

I cant thank Pittsburgh TRACON enough for their efforts in getting the responders in order prior to contact with the ground.

IF ANYONE was flying for USAir or PSA (Bluestreak) that night and was helping me with my checklists on departure freq, I want to say THANK YOU! very much. It was very comforting as a student at the the time to hear a calm voice reciting my checklist.


Frankly, I dont like to fly single engine at night and will argue that it is not needed. Ive seen numerous accidents in my career so far of single engine operations over wooded terrain that wouldve been prevented if flying a multi-engined aircraft.

Thats my two cents. Keep the blue side up and Green Between.
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Good God! Glad you survived that.

Are you from Erie? I am... I wouldn't drive on some December nights, I can tell you...
 
ATCT_ said:
Alright I dont read much on here but I'll post my story...
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Wow, thanks for your story - and glad you're OK!

Just curious, what kind of moonlight did you have that night?

How about your instructor? I'm not a CFI, but I'd be pretty nervous about signing students off for night solo...and to have a flight go wrong like yours must have been pretty nerve-wracking for him/her.


Trapper John
 
sba55 said:
True.

But there's one feature I wish the 430/530 had - only show airports within a pre-programmed glide ratio. My old LORAN can do that, why not the GPS?

-Felix
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Chelton does. Very cool feature. Never had to use it, but it's very cool!

I fly at night when ever I can. I love flying at night. If my number is up it's my turn to go. No worries.
 
Tristar said:
This topic came up in one of my CFI lessons.

If you were to have an engine failure at night, the FAA says to fly towards and set up for an emergency landing in an unlit field. For anyone who has done this in practice understands how little the ground can be seen. It's literally a shot in the dark into terrain that more than likely will not be soft but this is what the FAA says.

I've also heard of many people saying, "I know what the FAA says but I'd still aim for a road/highway." Obviously the FAA doesn't recommend this due to the possibility of hitting a car, powerlines, etc. Although I know of people that have and both the airplane and pilot came out fine.

My instructor came up with another idea I hadn't thought of. He asked about landing on the edge of a lake. If you fly over a lake with at least some moonlight, you will notice the reflection thus creating an outline. This was a neat idea but I came up with two problems; one would be hypothermia from the water and two, most lakes are curved so you might hit a tree anyways. Although it could be a better option than hoping you don't hit anything in a dark field. Obviously, during an emergency, you don't have much time and will do whatever you believe is the best action.

Thoughts??
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The honest truth? Unless you have another engine to get you to a runway, you're probably going to die.
 
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