Glendale AZ to Sedona

Supereri

Supereri

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Supereri
My sons and I decided to take an afternoon trip to Sedona. Being a new airplane owner and new PPL it was my first time flying to Sedona. The weather was amazing and the plane flew great. It was a bit intimidating for me. I've heard there can be lots of traffic, it's an uncontrolled airfield, it sits on a mesa, it slopes, and there can be downdrafts.

All that said it worked out very well. I had a great time and the scenery was beautiful.


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Beautiful day for a jaunt into Sedona. Well done!
 
What's the situation like on the ground there? Other than walking all the way down the hill, are there good options to get into town for the day?
 
iamtheari said:
What's the situation like on the ground there? Other than walking all the way down the hill, are there good options to get into town for the day?
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I'm really not enthused with Sedona for the reasons you bring to light.

  • The Mesa Grill used to be easy to get into. Now it's an hour+ wait almost all the time.
  • The airport can be a mad-house
  • There's no good way to get into town.
  • Uber is sketchy on reliability.
  • Rental cars are sketchy and $OUCH.
That said, I recognize that it's easy to be disenchanted with someplace you have been to dozens of times, and I guess I'm there. Kinda like asking a SoCal person about Catalina Island.
 
Have driven into Sedona and stayed at the airport in a cabin. It’s on my bucket list to fly in.
 
Sedona is a fun place to fly. Just watch that weather there.
 
Any tips on routing from KGEU (Glendale) to Sedona to stay near civilization and avoid the highest obstacles? Is it best to stay a bit west of the direct route and fly over Cordes or Cottonwood? I'll be flying in a Piper Archer. Thanks for any advice!
 
JH35209 said:
Any tips on routing from KGEU (Glendale) to Sedona to stay near civilization and avoid the highest obstacles? Is it best to stay a bit west of the direct route and fly over Cordes or Cottonwood?
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I'm based at Goodyear. Going to Sedona, after I get past the Luke, Glendale and Deer Valley Class Ds, the Luke SATR (if active) and the PHX Class B, I just follow I-17 to the town of Camp Verde, then go direct to enter the Sedona pattern. I don't like going west of I-17 or around Cottonwood, because of heavy trainer traffic out of Prescott. Others may disagree, but that's how I do it.
 
PaulS said:
Sedona is a fun place to fly. Just watch that weather there.
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Why do so few talk about the challenges of landing on runway 21? The chart warns against the downdrafts there -
particularly when the wind picks up. If you're 'forced' to land on 21 due to winds, don't forget that's the downhill
runway. Don't forget, we're never really 'forced' to do anything - you can always divert to Flagstaff and some other
'easier' places than runway 21 at KSEZ.

Also, it might not be such a big deal for a 172, 182. But if you're flying a faster / larger plane, then those obstacles
that are in the far end of this helpful video (first video) come into play when you're turning left downwind to base.
They're only about 1.5 miles out - so anyone who typically flies a longer downwind will probably have to contend with them.
They could go over them, but then you need to make a sharp base to final into Damfino Canyon like Captain Moombeam
in the second link.

Don't forget this video is when the plane is landing on runway 03 and that's the 'easier' runway and it's also the recommended
calm wind runway ~ less than 10 knots of a tailwind.


I think Captain Moonbeam passes right over those obstacles (that are on the left downwind for 21) at about 3:21:

 
When approaching a cliff-based runway like Sedona and like Sekiu, WA (11S, rwy 26, 48.2661164,-124.3139647) you do not have to land on the numbers. Depending, of course, on the runway length, you can land much farther down just in case you get hit with a down draft on short, short final.
 
Domenick said:
When approaching a cliff-based runway like Sedona and like Sekiu, WA (11S, rwy 26, 48.2661164,-124.3139647) you do not have to land on the numbers. Depending, of course, on the runway length, you can land much farther down just in case you get hit with a down draft on short, short final.
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Domenick, good points - if you're in a 172 / 182 or something like that.
But others like texasclouds and others don't have the 'luxury' of landing longer because
they're in a twin engine jet.
 
texasclouds said:
I was there a few weeks ago in a CE-550. What a madhouse!
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texasclouds, I'm guessing that you landed on runway 03.
I'm guessing that because if you landed on runway 21 (like
me a few weeks ago), you'd comment on some of its
challenges like captmoonbeam above. Even moombeam
said at the end of the video "that was ugly."

But he got it down without any real problems and so did I.

It's just that it turned out to be one of the top five landings
of my 'career' in terms of difficulty - mainly due to the down-
draft on base. And it was also because I wasn't anticipating the
quick turn from base to final - that damn obstacle just was staring
me in the face and I turned base earlier than anticipated. Captmoonbeam
(in the video above) topped that obstacle and he dove and turned base to final
into Damfino Canyon. He was obviously familiar with the procedure and
the approach.

It was my first time at KSEZ - now I know more about the
challenges and different ways to approach runway 21. And
that's only if the tailwind for 03 is too much.

PS: I found a video about how a Cherokee was trying to land on 21
by flying over the obstacle like captmoobeam in the above video.
I noticed that he screwed up the first attempt because he was too
high and he didn't dive and turn into Damfino Canyon like moonbeam.
The Cherokee made it on his third attempt but that was also due to
the stiff crosswind component.

If you're good at tight approaches in a light jet - like a 1.5 mile base, it
shouldn't bee too bad of you're ready for it and you're proficient
on tight patterns in a light jet. But a lot of the time the patterns in
light jets are taking you towards (or outside) the outer marker inbound.

Luckily I try to fit in some pattern work on approaches to the airport -
so I was pretty proficient at tight patterns. I was also just fresh off
of the annual checkride where a 1 mile circle to land is mandatory. So I was
on top of the technique.

Lastly, please note that I am not a CFI. So if you're interested in the
best techniques on how to handle an airport like Sedona, you should
talk to your CFI about them.
 
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People were landing 03 and departing 21. There was enough traffic that day to warrant a control tower. After we landed 03, after taxiing off, a plane departed 21 directly into a Skylane on short final. He had to go around and offset to the right. No radio calls on the guy that launched. Skylane must have been a local, he didn’t make any colorful remarks on the radio.

When we left (21), another jet was on 7 mi final for 03 and luckily I saw him on ADSB and turned out of his way. Got back on the departure and some guys in a twin were maneuvering at 13,000’ right over the final fix of the departure procedure. We got pretty close to him.

It was nuts.
 
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It's not as scary after you've done it a few times. The rocks are not as close as they appear. I usually do a combined turn to base and final, which helps bleed altitude and not overshoot the runway. A standard base will have you level wings and immediately turn to final, unless you plan to overshoot. With the rocks below, it's not likely that there's anyone below, so it's not a but concern. This is at 90 kts, so it is easier in a slower plane. The biggest issues are usually getting down to a good altitude, and the occasional downdraft.

Some people will just fly over the ridge and do a straight-in.

Just to make everyone aware - the runway is closed from June 5-June 14, 2023 for repaving.
 
MonkeyClaw said:
It's not as scary after you've done it a few times. The rocks are not as close as they appear. I usually do a combined turn to base and final, which helps bleed altitude and not overshoot the runway. A standard base will have you level wings and immediately turn to final, unless you plan to overshoot. With the rocks below, it's not likely that there's anyone below, so it's not a but concern. This is at 90 kts, so it is easier in a slower plane. The biggest issues are usually getting down to a good altitude, and the occasional downdraft.

Some people will just fly over the ridge and do a straight-in.

Just to make everyone aware - the runway is closed from June 5-June 14, 2023 for repaving.
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MonkeyClaw, thanks for the information.

Yes, being that it was my first time, there was an element of surprise factor there.
Diving and turning properly into Damfino Canyon (that's what it's called on Google Earth)
doesn't seem to be too bad if you've done it before and know what to expect.

I came in from the northeaset - so I came over the ridge. But when I cleared the ridge, I was
surprised at how high I was above the glide slope. My Garmins have a visual approach that
provides a glide slope - so it's pretty cool. It was my first sighting of this airport and it was
a bit intimidating all around. But I figured (in hindsight) that if I cleared that ridge at a much
slower speed (fully configured - gear down and full flaps, of course) I could possibly do a straight
in by working hard by getting back on glide path at a much lower speed. I know not to ever
increase the descent with an increase in speed in the clean configuration (gear
and flaps up) - it's a recipe for trouble in faster planes - it can really backfire as
your speed builds up - before you know it, you're going 225+ indicated. And you
don't want to be anywhere near that close to the airport. That's why you must be
gear down and full flaps with a steep decent close to the airport.

So I just realized that there's no way this straight in is going to work because it was too late
to fully configure - so I did the 'old fashioned' technique by entering the pattern by announcing
myself 2,000' AGL above the field and then entering crosswind to downwind. But when on downwind
for runway 21 those obstacles about 1.5 miles past the numbers surprised me. Of course I saw them
well before I got to them and I fully committed to a tight pattern at that point. That's beacause
I didn't even have time to think about going over them because I saw obstacles beyond them as well.
But in hindsight, that second batch of obstacles can be avoided if you dive and turn into Damfino
Canyon - at least that's the way that I see it now.

I just wasn't familiar with the area - so this approach to 21 was tricky because of that.

Luckily it wasn't that busy that day - it was about 2pm in the afternoon on a Monday.

All in all it worked out OK - I wouldn't have went in if it wasn't VFR - I don't like to do strange
airports (surrounded by mountains) for the first time unless it's VFR.

But this flying thing never stops surprising us one way or another.
 
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MonkeyClaw said:
It's not as scary after you've done it a few times. The rocks are not as close as they appear. I usually do a combined turn to base and final, which helps bleed altitude and not overshoot the runway. A standard base will have you level wings and immediately turn to final, unless you plan to overshoot. With the rocks below, it's not likely that there's anyone below, so it's not a but concern. This is at 90 kts, so it is easier in a slower plane. The biggest issues are usually getting down to a good altitude, and the occasional downdraft.

Some people will just fly over the ridge and do a straight-in.

Just to make everyone aware - the runway is closed from June 5-June 14, 2023 for repaving.
Click to expand...

MonkeyClaw:

Here's Damfino Canyon on Google Earth. I imagine that you're talking about clearing the obstacles
before the canyon and then turning (sort of diving and turning) base to final into that canyon.
I think that's what captmoonbeam did in the Citation Excel as shown at about 3:05
in the second link:

Google Earth

 
Madhouse. My second point in post #8.

I feel like it’s taboo to be a Zonie and dislike Sedona. But that’s where I am on it. Out-of-town friends always want to go. And I really dislike it anymore.

(old man yells at cloud)
 
Rgbeard said:
Madhouse. My second point in post #8.

I feel like it’s taboo to be a Zonie and dislike Sedona. But that’s where I am on it. Out-of-town friends always want to go. And I really dislike it anymore.

(old man yells at cloud)
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Thanks for the heads up. If I go back to land at Sedona, I have ample warning to not
go there on the weekends. When I landed at around 2 pm on a Monday (just about a month
ago), the traffic wasn't too bad at all. It's just that runway 21 is tricky (as I explained in
my previous posts) if you don't have the "local knowledge" of the airport.
 
Rgbeard said:
Madhouse. My second point in post #8.

I feel like it’s taboo to be a Zonie and dislike Sedona. But that’s where I am on it. Out-of-town friends always want to go. And I really dislike it anymore.

(old man yells at cloud)
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You have another reason too in which you had to leave your plane there. I was supposed to be there that day but had to turn back East of Phoenix for an electrical issue.
 
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