Phoenix area recommendations

ArrowFlyer86

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Jul 17, 2019
Messages
1,536
Location
Chicago suburbs
Display Name

Display name:
The Little Arrow That Could
Mission:
On short notice I have to fly down to the Phoenix area this week and visit a friend for a few days. My buddy broke up with the woman who was ruining his life for years, so it's kind of a guys trip down there to go do some outdoorsy stuff and help him enjoy life. I flew down there back in October (best flight I've ever had) so I think I have my route planned out OK.

Request:
I could use some help with logistics in Phoenix area.

Last time I left the plane at KSDL because that's where he lives. Nice little airport but very expensive. Gas, hangar fee, you name it. Just expensive all around.

Now I'm going to be there for a few days so I kind of want to avoid the crazy hangar fees. Can anyone recommend airports that have transient hangar space for visitors that might be less expensive, even if they're on the other side of town? I'm also hoping to get a rental car and I saw there a ton of options on Turo since they seem really reasonable in the PHX area compared to rental car prices, though I've never used that before. Does anyone have any PIREPs on that? Are people usually open to dropping the car off at an airport for you?

I'll also be doing my due diligence by giving some places a call, but thought I'd consult the brain trust here to see if they have any recommendations. Thanks in advance for any and all help.
 
Last edited:
Maybe try Deer Park. SDL is expensive I’m sure. There is some great hiking in east of town, McDowell something Nature something. I love coming here, but only been in the jet with other people paying the bills.

C47ECB8A-0555-48B5-9EE9-A73D2478D530.jpeg D357A288-5796-4ED1-B357-C6D8BA3003EB.jpeg
 
It’s deer Valley not Deer Park. DVT.

looks like cheapest 100ll is CHD Chandler Muni (delta)

Any of these deltas can get you a car, try Go Rentals if the FBO won’t help.
 
Maybe try Deer Park. SDL is expensive I’m sure. There is some great hiking in east of town, McDowell something Nature something. I love coming here, but only been in the jet with other people paying the bills.

View attachment 117520 View attachment 117521
Yeah, we're doing UTV'ing, hiking and mountain biking out at <something> ranch? I forget the name. I want to say its 15-20 minutes outside scottsdale.

Deer Valley is one my friend told me to look at since it's not as fancy as Scottsdale (in his non aviation opinion) but still not far from him. It's a great area to visit, but yeah, getting eaten alive by $100+ per day for hangar storage and 8$+/gal gas... there's gotta be a better way.

EDIT: And there's so many piston planes buzzing around phoenix, that tells me there's got to be options for flying/visiting/storing your plane that cater to the non-mega-millionaire class.
 
Are you dead set on a hangar? I don't have any experience renting a hangar in the Phoenix area, but I have had good experiences at KBXK and KGYR for staying on the ramp and have flown out of KCHD but with no real FBO/ramp experiences to report on. KCHD has a great restaurant on the field which might tip the scales for you.
 
Are you dead set on a hangar? I don't have any experience renting a hangar in the Phoenix area, but I have had good experiences at KBXK and KGYR for staying on the ramp and have flown out of KCHD but with no real FBO/ramp experiences to report on. KCHD has a great restaurant on the field which might tip the scales for you.
I appreciate the PIREPs!

Not dead set on a hangar but I do usually like to keep the plane out of the elements. Given the heat and sun intensity I would think at minimum a roof to block the sun would be necessary. I don't know how much dust and sand would matter over the course of a few days (since I don't have cowl plugs or any thing other than chocks and a pitot cover, and a Bruce's custom cover that came with the plane that i've never used).
 
Unfortunately it looks like I'll have to get a commercial ticket.
I did my oil change in advance of the trip tomorrow, fired it up to go refuel so its set to go, and my alternator is giving me trouble for the first time ever. Not getting any power from it. :(
Thank you though, I'll remember this for the next time I fly the arrow that direction.
 
You can still use Turo for ground transport. I recommend it highly.
How does it work for pickup usually? Do you have to Uber to someone's house to pick up their car, or are people OK with dropping the car off somewhere? The prices seem really reasonable, even for sportier cars that I normally wouldn't have a chance to drive.
 
Most of the time they’ll drop it wherever you want for an additional fee. Having hassled to get to the car a few times, I’ve concluded that it’s generally worth the cost to have it delivered.
 
The trip is happening after all thanks to that alternator fix. Just did the most flying I think I've done in one day. From Chicago to Odessa/Midland, TX. Stops in Fayetteville AR and Abilene TX!
 
The trip is happening after all thanks to that alternator fix. Just did the most flying I think I've done in one day. From Chicago to Odessa/Midland, TX. Stops in Fayetteville AR and Abilene TX!
Nicely done. That's a long day in a PA-28. I'm guessing 7-1/2 to 9 hours? Make sure you go around the restricted area on the way from TX to AZ. You don't want them to test a missile on you. :)
 
Nicely done. That's a long day in a PA-28. I'm guessing 7-1/2 to 9 hours? Make sure you go around the restricted area on the way from TX to AZ. You don't want them to test a missile on you. :)
The question is will it be them testing a missile on me, or me testing new, experimental electronic counter measures and chaffes on them?

Jkjk... I'm familiar with that wall of restricted space. Navigated it last year and only had to duck minimal ordinance from White Sands.

My flight plan from here on out, wx permitting is... Midland to Las Cruces (follow the highway) to Tucson and then cut up to Phoenix.
 
ROUGH TURBULENCE, but made it!
We just had that chat about when to fly at Va? I spent a lot of the day flying Va with those NM/AZ bumps. Couldn't get out until noon due to storms crossing near Midland.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20230526_231835205.jpg
    PXL_20230526_231835205.jpg
    157.2 KB · Views: 17
  • PXL_20230526_193639742.jpg
    PXL_20230526_193639742.jpg
    257.7 KB · Views: 16
  • PXL_20230526_184514999.jpg
    PXL_20230526_184514999.jpg
    114.3 KB · Views: 17
  • PXL_20230526_184509111.jpg
    PXL_20230526_184509111.jpg
    88.5 KB · Views: 18
  • PXL_20230526_184649885.jpg
    PXL_20230526_184649885.jpg
    301 KB · Views: 16
  • PXL_20230526_230940948.jpg
    PXL_20230526_230940948.jpg
    282.8 KB · Views: 19
  • PXL_20230526_222231638.jpg
    PXL_20230526_222231638.jpg
    328.7 KB · Views: 19
Where was the roughest turbulence?
From the time I crossed the New Mexico border all the way to Phoenix airspace. Maybe the absolute worst was about 30 miles east of Tuscon over the highway.

The only thing that gave me some peace about my situation is the jets were all asking for different altitudes and center had to keep telling all of them that no one was having a good ride lol
 
Just returned home. Set another personal record: from KELP to KDPA in 1 day in the Arrow (going via KELP -> Odessa TX (KODO) -> Abilene VOR (ABI) to Bowie VOR (UKW) -> Springdale Arkansas (KASG) -> CSX (over St Louis Lambert field) to Adders VOR -> KDPA.. It was almost exactly the same route I took there. Started the day taking off from high DA KELP and having to climb to 11.5k to avoid torturous desert/southwest turbulence, to flying a circuitous route through central Texas to avoid storms, to getting rained on in Arkansas, to nothing but smooth sailing in between dissipating rain cells in Missouri/Illinois. The scenery changed a lot today... It may not be the fastest, but the Arrow can be a true, legitimate "cross country" plane if you want it to be!

Some photos from the trip. I'll do a proper write up tomorrow.

The beginning of a sunset over Arkansas on the way home...
upload_2023-6-1_23-19-0.png
upload_2023-6-1_23-29-47.png

The last vestiges of the sunset tonight seen through a break in the clouds near St Louis. Let the night flying commence!
upload_2023-6-1_23-22-45.png

The camera doesn't do these justice...
I caught a view of them both headed towards El Paso (shrouded in clouds) and back home (clear day). I believe it's the south end of the "Guadalupe Mountains"? Anyone from the area can confirm?

Mountain obscuration...
upload_2023-6-1_23-26-5.png

And today on my way back home
upload_2023-6-1_23-24-9.png

There's just GOT to be a more economical place to grow crops than near the 100+ F degree Texas/Mexico border.
upload_2023-6-1_23-19-48.png

Summon one of these guys out of El Paso if you cross the border without talking-and-squawking
upload_2023-6-1_23-21-17.png

Random photo I took downtown El Paso...
upload_2023-6-1_23-29-10.png

Cruising around New Mexico
upload_2023-6-1_23-28-4.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2023-6-1_23-25-29.png
    upload_2023-6-1_23-25-29.png
    686.3 KB · Views: 6
Last edited:
Oh and it was fun having this guy taxi behind me. Then, to my horror, pull up right beside me (26L @ KELP) take off right in front of me. Then they immediately cleared me for a takeoff with wake turbulence warning (I took off, and requested an immediate early turn out to avoid issues, which was a success). Never ate his turbulence!
upload_2023-6-1_23-44-44.png

upload_2023-6-1_23-44-23.png

And these were just all over central Texas and Oklahoma. Thankfully, just as on the way in, these storms were like... completely stationary. Barely moving. Which made navigating around them pretty easy. The pockets of rain showers were more plentiful but all of them except the lightest showers were easily avoided.
upload_2023-6-1_23-46-42.png
 
Last edited:
Trip debrief in case it's helpful for anyone...

Route and Weather:
KDPA -> KASG (refuel) -> UKW (VOR) -> KABI (refuel) -> KODO (refuel/overnight)... KODO -> SFL (VOR) -> EWM (VOR) -> KDMN (refuel) -> SSO (VOR) -> KTUS -> KSDL(flying east around the bravo following the canal/aqueduct thing rather than doing the E/W transition over Sky Harbor) The flight back was essentially the same, except that I stayed in El Paso for a night. From EWM to Tucson I'm pretty much just following the highway. It took about 12 hours each way. When I did this trip back in October it was 2 hours shorter, courtesy of more direct routing; impossible this time due to wx. On the map below red checks are Chicago->Phoenix gas stops. Blue checks are the reverse route gas stops.

Altitude varied a lot based on ceiling considerations and turbulence, but usually 5.5-8.5k, except in the desert-y areas where I climbed a bit to avoid bumps. I was getting about 135kts TAS on ~9.5gph at 5-8k'. This is in a 1972 Piper Arrow II, non turbo.

En route I had several "outs" planned for weather that would allow me to park the plane and get a commercial ticket to Phoenix. Having those preplanned outs (with contingencies for stopping in Fayetteville, Dallas, Midland -- all areas with commercial travel options) put less pressure on me to make the trip work in the arrow. I was more comfortable cooling my heels for a bit in the FBO waiting for wx to clear up knowing that worst case I could hop a flight outta there.

upload_2023-6-4_16-31-3.png

PIREPs:
- Atlantic FBO at El Paso (KELP) gave phenomenal service. Handled everything very well and with a smile, and they negotiated for me on a last minute rental car and got the price chopped down by 66%.
- Signature at KSDL is expensive... to be expected I guess. Got billed $45 a day for ramp space (lived without the hangar this time). They waived the $35 handling fee with 15gals of gas. I only stayed there because of logistical considerations with my friend. Next time I'm picking another airport. Nothing wrong with Signature service, they did everything perfectly and there were no surprise charges, they just are not cheap at that location... They cater to the jet class.
- TexasAero at KODO (Midland/Odessa, TX) was really accommodating and stayed late to throw me in the hangar. It's about 2-3$ cheaper per gallon than Midland's main class charlie airport, too. I also got some quality sleep in their dark lounge rooms as I waited for weather to pass. I almost didn't want to get out of the recliner and finish the journey...
- Ended up not getting Turo or any rental on my friend's advice. We planned to do a bit of partying in Phoenix so Uber was the more responsible, yet obscenely expensive option for this trip. Could have gotten a nice Turo for what Phoenix Uber charges there :mad:...

Observations:
- You really do not want to be flying after 12pm from ~90nm east of El Paso all the way to Phoenix (at least this time of year). My trip on the way there was absolutely brutal getting beaten up by bumps (on the way back I left early in the morning and it was MUCH better). The best ride I got was at 10.5 headed west and 11.5 headed east. Anything below that was continuous chop with some serious rising air that would carry me up 700+fpm if I didn't nose down a bit (adding speed I didn't want, making the ride even more rough). Even at that altitude you eventually start getting beaten up as the day goes on. Unfortunately climbing to that in the afternoon is taxing on the (non-turbo'd) Arrow when the DA at KDMN (my refueling stop) was already 7200' (it's ~4k field elevation).
- On the above note, when I do this trip again in a few months I'm going to plan to fly at morning twilight/sunrise to get out well before it starts heating up. I want my feet firmly planted on the ground by ~11am.
- My plans and routing had to be really flexible with the Texas/eastern NM weather. They have nearly daily thunderstorms that rip through and are kind of unpredictable in terms of where they'll materialize. The net result seems to be TAFs for every area that show potential thunderstorms. The only benefit is that when the storms actually occur they were primarily just numerous, isolated cells (for most of the ones I dealt with) AND they move really slowly compared to the midwest storms I'm used to. That made it easy to give them a wide berth and stay safe. But when planning my return trip all I saw on the daily weather view in FF was "AM Thunderstorms/PM Thunderstorms" for 7 days straight for Amarillo, Lubbock, Midland and Abilene. If I had just gone off that -- there's no way I would have done the trip.
- Some of the TAFs in west texas/east NM seem to be unreliable. For instance, I'd see Amarillo getting a TAF for "variable winds at 30-40 knots" (obviously NO-GO flying weather), and then it ends up being winds 130 @ 10kts. This happened multiple times while planning and it was a bit frustrating. It's inaccurate even 6 hours out. I'm guessing it's just difficult weather to model. I still use the TAFs but I recognize that they might not be accurate until just a couple hours before the time they're forecasting for.
- Flying in TX I was pretty much bug-free, but the second I crossed the state line into Oklahoma my windshield lit up with a kaleidoscope of different colored bug-guts. That was a nice treat.

Lessons:
- Out of habit I ordered a top-off of gas at Deming, NM in the hot afternoon. Foolish. I should have run with half fuel as originally planned and it would have gotten me to Phoenix just fine. Taking off at higher DA with full tanks and only a couple hundred pounds short of max gross was uncomfortable. The area around there is very forgiving, but it would have been a little scary doing that if there were obstacles around and a meager climb rate. I also had to level off in the climb when the engine temp began to rise, it's the first time I've had to do that in a while.
- It's the first time I've done so much flying in one day and I learned that the first sign of fatigue for me is missing something on the radio (usually me hearing the wrong frequency during a handoff). This is an indicator I will be cognizant of in the future.

Overall:
A great trip and one I'll be doing again soon. Logged a total of ~23.7h of flying in for the journey. I recommend southwest flying to anyone, it's the most picturesque scenery I've ever had.
Also calculated my new times... Since getting the Arrow back from annual in early April I've already put 72 hours on it and going on my second oil change already. The plane has been performing perfectly (minus the alternator wire I got fixed) and I'm ecstatic to be getting so much use out of it :)
 
Last edited:
Awesome report! Glad you made it happen. I would love to finally do a long trip in my 170. Just need to take some time off work to do it. I’m with you on flying as much as you can in early am. Before the rooster crows!
 
Back
Top