Garmin will continue to support GNS-4XX/5XX for years to come

wilkersk

wilkersk

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KennyW
Cross-post from VAF:

https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=215104 said:
Good Morning,

We are modifying our repair process for our line of GNS 4XX/5XX Series IFR Navigators. In short, we will continue repairing and servicing these units for years to come. However, as some critical components become unavailable, specific types of repairs will become limited due to a lack of necessary raw materials. Our current forecast estimates that a small percentage of repairs will begin to be impacted starting in 2024.

These units have faithfully served pilots and operators for 25 years, and we will do our best to continue to support them as long as the required components remain available. We will also communicate specific repair service limitations as they need to be implemented in the future.

There is no impact to database or general product support of these units.

Thanks,

Justin
__________________
Garmin G3X Support
g3xpert@garmin.com
1-866-854-8433 - 7 to 7 Central Time M to F
Please email us for support instead of using Private Messaging due to the limitations of the latter.
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Keeping mine till it fails!
 
Love a company that stands behind their products, especially continued support for legacy products.

Gives a person more confidence when buying new and helps with price support of the used market when it come time to upgrade.
 
Parts availability is definitely an issue with old electronics!
 
I heard recently that this is the last year of support for the 430.
 
Our current forecast estimates that a small percentage of repairs will begin to be impacted starting in 2024.

I bet the small percentage will be underestimated. For sure it would be on my unit:mad:. I'd like to know which component they can't get. Wonder if they underestimated how many folks would just go with slide in Avidynes..
 
Wagondriver said:
I heard recently that this is the last year of support for the 430.
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“In order to support future GNS 400W/500W-series repairs, Garmin will be ending WAAS upgrades for non-WAAS GNS 400/500-series products on May 29, 2020. WAAS upgrade orders can be placed up until this date; however, units must be received by Garmin by June 30, 2020,”

This ^^^ is what was actually said 3 years ago.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...der to support future,products on May 29, 2020.
 
Just found the actual OFFICIAL service advisory from Garmin. Doesn't sound as upbeat as what Justin said in his post on VAF. But, it still means the same thing.


52748616680_55c9d2277b_c.jpg

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The good news is that I suspect they’ll be obtainable on the used market easily.
 
I plan to sell my 430W next year. They're good units. An IDF 440 is in my future, the Garmin doesn't work with my Lynx for traffic.
 
wheaties said:
I plan to sell my 430W next year. They're good units. An IDF 440 is in my future, the Garmin doesn't work with my Lynx for traffic.
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Mine displays traffic from the Lynx NGT-9000 on the moving map. You just don't get target vectors. (Displays as a diamond.) This is not a big deal, because the NGT-9000 can display traffic on a different scale than the GNS-430W map. I usually keep one half of the NGT-9000 screen on traffic, the other on Nexrad. Traffic shows on both the NGT-9000 and the GNS-430W.
 
I have to give Garmin credit though, how many other companies provide 25+ years of continuing support to older models? Microsoft barely did 10 years, and has now switched over to subscription pricing for many of its products.
 
wheaties said:
I plan to sell my 430W next year. They're good units. An IDF 440 is in my future, the Garmin doesn't work with my Lynx for traffic.
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Must be something to do with the install because it works with mine.
 
eman1200 said:
lol when you only see what you wanna see
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For sure!

Glass half full: "Garmin is supporting the GNS for years to come!"

Glass half empty: "Garmin is starting to discontinue GNS support!"
 
midwestpa24 said:
I have to give Garmin credit though, how many other companies provide 25+ years of continuing support to older models? Microsoft barely did 10 years, and has now switched over to subscription pricing for many of its products.
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Hardware is a little different than software. And mass produced consumer products are a little different than our niche market. But it is nice to know that the big guy cares. They're just stating the facts that the the stockpile of innards is dwindling, and even if they wanted to service the units they can't. With parts it at least makes some economic sense to service them. Without parts they simply cant service them.
 
I’m a little suspect when Garmin talks about older units, and their support process.
 
I spoke with a Garmin avionics rep last night — Oct 15th at an AOPA event in the Boston area. Garmin had a small trade show booth. I asked their rep about this and he basically parroted what is in their letter. To quote, “we have been supporting this unit since conception in 1995. It’s a 25 year old platform. Think of all the advancements in electronics, including our platform. We have a real parts shortage and we won’t and or can’t replenish the supply. Depending on what repair is needed, we may not be able to do it.”

The question is: will independent service centers start to pile up bricked units, and stockpile parts inventory? There are so many of this series navigator out there, the life span for repairs may be years upon years, would you take the risk in installing one now, especially if prices go down?
 
Dan Gordon said:
would you take the risk in installing one now, especially if prices go down?
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Something I have looked into as the owner of a non-gps IFR plane. My personal decision is ...no.. I really don't see the units coming down in price (check out what used MX radios go for)..and at end of the day, while you may have a capable unit ..its an old capable unit..
 
I agree with others that note it's not a great idea to install used GNS units today, but I think the economics of this situation are that Garmin really will support the 530W as long as they possibly can. My guess is they stopped support for the 430W units earlier because the GTN650 series are good fits in the panel space to replace all those 430 units, but there's no Garmin unit that fits in the panel slot of a 530W. For people who have 530W units today and are looking at upgrades, the Avidyne 540/550 series makes a lot of sense. By supporting the 530W unit longer, Garmin can at least potentially reduce Avidyne's business a bit...
 
They are just stating their decision for the future. I've seen it from other companies, in aviation and out. Garmin has done it several times. Lightspeed has done something similar with their flat charge repair. I've also seen companies that don't prepare us and respond to service requests with, "too bad, so sad."

My translation:
"Look, this unit is 2 generations old. We are no longer manufacturing parts for it. We still have some, but when we run out, we run out. Word to the wise."
 
I’m sure there are some, if not many electronic components in these units that have went obsolete and were no longer available ages ago now. The electronics industry caters to consumer electronics, not some specialty market asking for components that were popular in 1995.

Having grown up in the electronics industry this statement from Garmin is no surprise. I’m actually surprised it didn’t happen 5+ years ago. I bet the support for the GTN series wanes even faster than it has for the GNS series so be prepared. Like that G3X panel you installed? It likely won’t be supported for as long as the old mechanical instruments have been. It’s just the way things are.
 
mondtster said:
I’m sure there are some, if not many electronic components in these units that have went obsolete and were no longer available ages ago now. The electronics industry caters to consumer electronics, not some specialty market asking for components that were popular in 1995.

Having grown up in the electronics industry this statement from Garmin is no surprise. I’m actually surprised it didn’t happen 5+ years ago. I bet the support for the GTN series wanes even faster than it has for the GNS series so be prepared. Like that G3X panel you installed? It likely won’t be supported for as long as the old mechanical instruments have been. It’s just the way things are.
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The G3X is already long in the tooth and this becomes apparent during database updates, they take a good 10 minutes, but otherwise they can probably still sell it for another few years.
The GTNs they’ve already updated as Xi models. The GTN has more functionality than the GNS, the Xi has more than the original GTNs. I would expect they would need to add functionality to a new G3X model to entice users to upgrade, and I can’t think of any functionality it’s missing.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
The G3X is already long in the tooth and this becomes apparent during database updates, they take a good 10 minutes, but otherwise they can probably still sell it for another few years.
The GTNs they’ve already updated as Xi models. The GTN has more functionality than the GNS, the Xi has more than the original GTNs. I would expect they would need to add functionality to a new G3X model to entice users to upgrade, and I can’t think of any functionality it’s missing.
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The issue isn’t with selling the product. It’s how long components are available for to continue servicing broken units. But since you bring up the Xi versions of the GTN, I suspect that they were at least partially developed and released due to parts availability.

Covid and the chip shortage probably hasn’t helped with keeping some of the older electronics such as the GNS series viable for repair.
 
Dan Gordon said:
I spoke with a Garmin avionics rep last night — Oct 15th at an AOPA event in the Boston area. Garmin had a small trade show booth. I asked their rep about this and he basically parroted what is in their letter. To quote, “we have been supporting this unit since conception in 1995. It’s a 25 year old platform. Think of all the advancements in electronics, including our platform. We have a real parts shortage and we won’t and or can’t replenish the supply. Depending on what repair is needed, we may not be able to do it.”

The question is: will independent service centers start to pile up bricked units, and stockpile parts inventory? There are so many of this series navigator out there, the life span for repairs may be years upon years, would you take the risk in installing one now, especially if prices go down?
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no, unless garmin changes their policies, and i see no reason for them to do so, the manuals to repair these units are not available to anybody except garmin. without those approved manuals no shop can legally open those units up and service them.
 
midlifeflyer said:
My translation:
"Look, this unit is 2 generations old. We are no longer manufacturing parts for it. We still have some, but when we run out, we run out. Word to the wise."
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Depending on how you count, one could actually consider it 2.5 or 3 generations old (GNS->GTN->2inch->GTNXi)
 
It'll be interesting to see what the 440 pricing does once they orphan the GNS. If those prices don't budge, no real incentive to move, since the current trade-in subsidy is based on being able to service 430s. Doubt they'd accept them anymore, never mind if the trade is done under the auspices of one's 430 components broke.

At that point those of us with a need to retain capability (as opposed to add) will continue scouring the internet for replacement 430s on ebay et al instead of paying a premium for a 440, which isn't exactly new either.

fwiw, 480s still show for sale, bennett still lists them for 6k and no tray or antenna etc. 430 installed trays out in the wild is significantly larger, so it's probably reasonable to assume the stock will linger for a while longer.
 
exactly....the 480 is supposed to be a paperweight....and it's doing just fine. Meh....blah...blah...blah. more chicken little stuff.:rolleyes:
 
25 years? In urban rail signalling typical contracts requires 30-40 years of support. To do that you do the calc of number of unit vs failure rates and if needed a stock of parts is purchased to support for the duration of the required life span.

So garmin doing 25 years is great and all but for an even more niche industry it’s been figured out a long time ago how to support.

And before everyone give them too much credit, isn’t it true the older avionics in some case are still supported because the service manual was available and not for newer stuff by the likes of garmin? And since these gps are not that great outside of data updates you buy from them, supporting all this is good for business. I mean they don’t want too many 440 swaps do they?
 
SebIp said:
And before everyone give them too much credit, isn’t it true the older avionics in some case are still supported because the service manual was available and not for newer stuff by the likes of garmin?
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It's not just because of manual availability. Other than a few specialty parts such as a display, most older radios are more serviceable because they use standard parts. Newer electronics often have custom ICs in them, many of which also require proprietary firmware which isn't available outside of the OEM. It might be possible to reverse engineer the components and come up with a replacement solution but in a regulated environment like aviation coupled with a limited market I doubt there will be someone interested in taking on such a project.
 
One of the planes I looked at, the 430W looked like it was just out of the box and installed. The owner lamented that if taken care of, the lifespan of some of these units will last long after getting the repairs, and firmware support from Garmin is no longer available. He felt he units will still be functional so long as he could update the database.

I took a look at putting in a used 430W, but with the advice from many here, the GNC 355 NavComm is the route I am going to take. The price for a used 430W vs a new GNC 355 is about the same.
 
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Ventucky Red said:
I took a look at putting in a used 430W, but with the advice from many here, the GNC 355 NavComm is the route I am going to take. The price for a used 430W vs a new GNC 355 is about the same.
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Yabut that's a strawman. Nobody is seriously arguing/asserting an expectation of the same calendar year end of support between a 355 and a 430w.
 
NordicDave said:
Love a company that stands behind their products, especially continued support for legacy products.

Gives a person more confidence when buying new and helps with price support of the used market when it come time to upgrade.
Click to expand...
asicer said:
For sure!

Glass half full: "Garmin is supporting the GNS for years to come!"

Glass half empty: "Garmin is starting to discontinue GNS support!"
Click to expand...


What a great example of what your POV is. Partly cloudy or partly sunny I guess -take your pick base on what it means to you.

Repair Parts Running Out For GNS 430/530

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/repair-parts-running-out-for-gns-430-530/
 
Ventucky Red said:
I took a look at putting in a used 430W, but with the advice from many here, the GNC 355 NavComm is the route I am going to take. The price for a used 430W vs a new GNC 355 is about the same.
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If your other radio is the traditional Nav/Com, then you have one GPS nav source and one radio nav source. Which today actually seems like a great balance. The option would have been a GTN 650 xi - bigger screen and addition of a nav radio - and of course more money. It would have added the Nav radio that you didn't need, if your POV is that you can safely navigate in a GPS outage with only one Nav radio.
 
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