Chicago Approach / KLOT handoff

[ArrowFlyer86]

There pretty much wasn't one today while doing LOC 2 approach at KLOT. My CFII had to ask to talk to KLOT tower after we were well into the delta airspace and on about a 2.5m final. Approach told us, literally, "yeah... Sure...".

Well, LOT tower didn't know where we were lol.

Quite different from a normal handoff into DPA or ARR on a practice approach. Normally that's "contact tower on 20.9, contact me back on this frequency after the miss" or something like that, and... tower knows where we are.

Weather was total crap and students were out in force landing the opposite direction (20), so my antenna was up. There was a bit more bungling that occurred from there, or at least some non-standard handling based on my limited IFR practice experience. Finally we got back on with chi approach and terminated at DPA where it was much, much more attentive and formal.

I am not critiquing either Chicago approach or Lewis tower but it definitely did *not* feel like coming into DuPage, Aurora or executive. Or even Gary. @bbchien might be onto something about the KLOT delta integration...

A friend told me some folks at Clow are trying to setup a "meet the controllers" thingy with the folks at Lewis. I will try and go if that happens. Given my proximity I'd like to hear their take about what to expect in working with them. I'll cross paths constantly with em.

 

[mandm]

A lot of times I’ll be on final approach and over to tower and they are like never heard about you coming

 

[WDD]

A lot of times I’ll be on final approach and over to tower and they are like never heard about you coming

I never thought that could even be a possibility. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[kaiser]

That's pretty nuts. Sure I've been handed to tower late a few times, but they've always known I was coming. It's usually: "Bugsmasher123, we've been calling! Cleared to land 2L !!"

My most interesting approach in the C90 space was when I was cleared visual approach 20R and I was at ~2400 MSL 1.5nm south of DPA over a BKN layer 016-022... but the tower definitely knew I was there.

 

[flyingron]

A lot of times I’ll be on final approach and over to tower and they are like never heard about you coming

The comment I got from one tower after being slammed into the class D at the last possible minute is "That's why they're called 'enroute' controllers."

 

[Velocity173]

Not sure how they could get away with that on a regular basis up there. While technically it’s not a “handoff” the aircraft is required (unless coordinated) to be freq changed prior to entering KLOT’s D. If not, it’s an Operational Deviation on the transferring controller’s side.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Not sure how they could get away with that on a regular basis up there. While technically it’s not a “handoff” the aircraft is required (unless coordinated) to be freq changed prior to entering KLOT’s D. If not, it’s an Operational Deviation on the transferring controller’s side.

Might have just been a fluke. But I'll be doing more approach training at KLOT over the next 2 weeks, so I should figure out pretty quickly if this is a routine issue or not.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Just call Kevin and tell him to fix it.

 

[luvflyin]

Not sure how they could get away with that on a regular basis up there. While technically it’s not a “handoff” the aircraft is required (unless coordinated) to be freq changed prior to entering KLOT’s D. If not, it’s an Operational Deviation on the transferring controller’s side.

Yeah, it's not going to be 'handoff' because there isn't Radar. And yeah, there's the frequency change thang. But it sounds like they are not even giving the tower an inbound coordination. A total surprise to the Tower the plane is even coming, much less late frequency change.

 

[Velocity173]

Yeah, it's not going to be 'handoff' because there isn't Radar. And yeah, there's the frequency change thang. But it sounds like they are not even giving the tower an inbound coordination. A total surprise to the Tower the plane is even coming, much less late frequency change.

Yep. It’s not just a comm transfer violation but coordination as well. Judging by the other thread, kinda sounds like a **** show between KLOT and approach.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Not sure how they could get away with that on a regular basis up there. While technically it’s not a “handoff” the aircraft is required (unless coordinated) to be freq changed prior to entering KLOT’s D. If not, it’s an Operational Deviation on the transferring controller’s side.

I'm 99% convinced back in the day, Denver Approach did it to KAPA Tower on purpose.

One day, a bunch of us were returning from a fly-in at KDEN. As we approached KAPA, I waited for the instruction to contact Tower. Closer and closer and closer. Having BTDT, I finally keyed the mic. "Time to switch to Tower." ATC: [Audible sigh] "Contact Tower 118.9."

 

[luvflyin]

I'm 99% convinced back in the day, Denver Approach did it to KAPA Tower on purpose.

One day, a bunch of us were returning from a fly-in at KDEN. As we approached KAPA, I waited for the instruction to contact Tower. Closer and closer and closer. Having BTDT, I finally keyed the mic. "Time to switch to Tower." ATC: [Audible sigh] "Contact Tower 118.9."

That’s different than an IFR plane shooting an Approach like what’s happening at LOT. I’m wondering though, we’re you on a B Clearance when this happened?

 

[midlifeflyer]

That’s different than an IFR plane shooting an Approach like what’s happening at LOT. I’m wondering though, we’re you on a B Clearance when this happened?

Not really. Of course, we were on a B clearance leaving DEN, but by the time I called, we were clear of Buckley's airspace and below the Class B shelf the pic is approximate. (And even if still in the B, that probably would not have been a reason to keep us. I've been released VFR more than once by Denver to switch to APA tower while still in the Bravo.

 

[luvflyin]

Not really. Of course, we were on a B clearance leaving DEN, but by the time I called, we were clear of Buckley's airspace and below the Class B shelf the pic is approximate. (And even if still in the B, that probably would not have been a reason to keep us. I've been released VFR more than once by Denver to switch to APA tower while still in the Bravo.

View attachment 113933

What I meant by different is that Approach absolutely must give an inbound coordination to the Tower for IFR Approaches. VFR's not necessarily so. My guess is there at Denver going into Centennial they probably have procedures to effect coordination. Most likely not verbal, but via Radar data blocks.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

absolutely must give an inbound coordination to the Tower for IFR Approaches. VFR's not necessarily so.

Is it perhaps OK then that there wasn't (good) coordination for my original flight into klot (original post)? Because technically I was VFR but on a practice localizer approach?

 

[midlifeflyer]

What I meant by different is that Approach absolutely must give an inbound coordination to the Tower for IFR Approaches. VFR's not necessarily so. My guess is there at Denver going into Centennial they probably have procedures to effect coordination. Most likely not verbal, but via Radar data blocks.

Maybe, but that wasn't my impression. Centennial is a non-radar tower despite being consistently one of the 25-30 busiest airports in the US. And, as I mentioned earlier, based on history (I was based there 20 years) it seemed more like a game TRACON was playing than coordination or a LOA.