Commercial, why do it?

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4RNB

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4RNB
Situation: I have started studying at home for commercial license. Halfway just to keep my mind in the game while lots of upgrades occur, but also because all of my training was in the environment of young bucks aiming for the airlines. Plan is to get endorsement for written online, then Sheppard, test, then actual air work when back in my plane.

My spouse has medical issues (diabetic fog when sugars are low) such that it would really be best if I were home most or every night. Hence, I really think that any potential dream of most commercial piloting would not work well.

I wonder if I could just enjoy being a CFI/CFII but local schools use planes I do not fit well in. Other schools an hour to an hour and a half away do use 172s. I own a 172 but question the economics of private instruction.

I am likely to pursue the commercial license just for my own education and proficiency, but have questions for the POA illuminati and peanut gallery...

1. What are the economics of private instruction? Seems I would need more frequent inspections and much higher insurance, while being willing to handle abuse of my aircraft.

2. What "out of the box" ways might a commercial license be put to use that would allow being home each/most nights?

3. Do private flying jobs allow for a +1 to travel?

4. What else should I be thinking of?

Thank you.
 
4RNB said:
Situation: I have started studying at home for commercial license. Halfway just to keep my mind in the game while lots of upgrades occur, but also because all of my training was in the environment of young bucks aiming for the airlines. Plan is to get endorsement for written online, then Sheppard, test, then actual air work when back in my plane.

My spouse has medical issues (diabetic fog when sugars are low) such that it would really be best if I were home most or every night. Hence, I really think that any potential dream of most commercial piloting would not work well.

I wonder if I could just enjoy being a CFI/CFII but local schools use planes I do not fit well in. Other schools an hour to an hour and a half away do use 172s. I own a 172 but question the economics of private instruction.

I am likely to pursue the commercial license just for my own education and proficiency, but have questions for the POA illuminati and peanut gallery...

1. What are the economics of private instruction? Seems I would need more frequent inspections and much higher insurance, while being willing to handle abuse of my aircraft.

2. What "out of the box" ways might a commercial license be put to use that would allow being home each/most nights?

3. Do private flying jobs allow for a +1 to travel?

4. What else should I be thinking of?

Thank you.
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1. The insurance on that will probably jump to $8,000 a year.

2. There are plenty of 135 operations that are out and back and home every night.

3. Maybe, but not likely. If I'm paying for charter flight, I don't want some one else sharing the cabin with me.

4. You could find a drop zone and fly jumpers.

How many hours do you have?
 
1. Yes, you will need 100 hour inspections in addition to the annual. But cost of this, plus the increased insurance cost should be covered by your rental price.

4. Jumpers, banner towing, glider tow pilot (if a glider operation near you). Also pipeline patrol, airborne traffic reporting (although locally that has moved to all rotary wing).
 
commercial license doesn’t mean you have to make a career of it. Same with CFI.
Just having it may open up opportunities you have not even thought of or could not have even imagined, could be part time or maybe even full time employment.

Occasionally ferrying airplane.
Skydive operations. Maybe even just a backup pilot.
Doing maintenance or avionics checks for a local shop
That right seat position in a PC-12 every Saturday that you just happen find.
CFI, maybe just specialize in doing flight reviews, Or just one or two students at a time that you fly with twice a week.

Or maybe you will never use it for pay, but you will be a better pilot just having earned the rating.

Instructing just supports my habit of flying.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
4RNB said:
Situation: I have started studying at home for commercial license. Halfway just to keep my mind in the game while lots of upgrades occur, but also because all of my training was in the environment of young bucks aiming for the airlines. Plan is to get endorsement for written online, then Sheppard, test, then actual air work when back in my plane.

My spouse has medical issues (diabetic fog when sugars are low) such that it would really be best if I were home most or every night. Hence, I really think that any potential dream of most commercial piloting would not work well.

I wonder if I could just enjoy being a CFI/CFII but local schools use planes I do not fit well in. Other schools an hour to an hour and a half away do use 172s. I own a 172 but question the economics of private instruction.

I am likely to pursue the commercial license just for my own education and proficiency, but have questions for the POA illuminati and peanut gallery...

1. What are the economics of private instruction? Seems I would need more frequent inspections and much higher insurance, while being willing to handle abuse of my aircraft.

2. What "out of the box" ways might a commercial license be put to use that would allow being home each/most nights?

3. Do private flying jobs allow for a +1 to travel?

4. What else should I be thinking of?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

It's all about being ready when the opportunity knocks. I would suggest you just do it, and not analyze too much how exactly it can be put to use. If an opportunity comes up, they are not going to wait until you start your training and get all the necessary certificates and ratings. If you have your CFI and II, you can instruct whenever the need comes up.
 
From the POA peanut gallery:
I got my commercial and multi certificates/rating also with no idea why or how I'd ever use them. Ended up with 3 jet type ratings, ATP certificate, CFIA and CFII: all pretty much paid for by others. Had a lot of fun as well. But if I didn't have the certificates up front, I couldn't have taken advantage of the opportunities when they popped up. A year and ½ ago another independent CFI and I bought a 172 and use it for local training. Yes the insurance is higher and 100 hour inspections are a PITA, but the plane is easily paying for itself and is a platform for a few local instructors to make some money and keep it all (ie some flight school is not keeping a high percentage of what they charge the student). My contract flying and CFIing are all on my schedule. All in all not too bad. Get the commercial and be looking for opportunities.
 
It really depends on opportunities near where you live and/or your willingness to relocate. Once you hit 750-1000 hrs you may be able to find right-seat part 91 contract opportunities for a business doing day trips.

CFI work around here is steady because we have a flow of university students wanting to earn Private while at school. Not all of them are going to baby your aircraft like you probably do. Expect it to get beat up if you go that route.

I have met a few aeromedical guys that get to sleep in own bed 99% of the time.
 
4RNB said:
Situation: I have started studying at home for commercial license. Halfway just to keep my mind in the game while lots of upgrades occur, but also because all of my training was in the environment of young bucks aiming for the airlines. Plan is to get endorsement for written online, then Sheppard, test, then actual air work when back in my plane.

My spouse has medical issues (diabetic fog when sugars are low) such that it would really be best if I were home most or every night. Hence, I really think that any potential dream of most commercial piloting would not work well.

I wonder if I could just enjoy being a CFI/CFII but local schools use planes I do not fit well in. Other schools an hour to an hour and a half away do use 172s. I own a 172 but question the economics of private instruction.

I am likely to pursue the commercial license just for my own education and proficiency, but have questions for the POA illuminati and peanut gallery...

1. What are the economics of private instruction? Seems I would need more frequent inspections and much higher insurance, while being willing to handle abuse of my aircraft.

2. What "out of the box" ways might a commercial license be put to use that would allow being home each/most nights?

3. Do private flying jobs allow for a +1 to travel?

4. What else should I be thinking of?

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Lots you can do with a commercial. Tow banners, glider, do pipeline patrol, cargo, etc. But it's easy enough to get that even if you don't do anything with it, it's worth having just on case. Separately, if your wife's blood sugar isn't well controlled, please fix that. It's not good long term.
 
I’m pretty firmly with the camp that says if you’ve got the desire and the resources to do it, get the Commercial so that if/when opportunities come along, you’ll be prepared.

I had the same thought as @EdFred about local 135 outfits, but in my experience a significant portion of those trips are very early wake-ups, which may or may not fit with your spouse’s needs.

In addition to the things mentioned above, some form of specialty instruction like accelerated instrument instruction at your airport might be a possibility if you’ve got reasonable weather (and maybe some local tourist attractions for the pilot’s family) in your area.

With respect to your spouse, do you have a couple of people in the neighborhood that might be willing to check in if need be once in a while? One of my recollections from my grandparents is that my grandma (a nurse before she got married) would go check on the neighbor lady if the curtains on the living room window weren’t opened by 9 or 10 AM…I’m thinking that was a diabetic issue.
 
Lance F said:
From the POA peanut gallery:t
I got my commercial and multi certificates/rating also with no idea why or how I'd ever use them. Ended up with 3 jet type ratings, ATP certificate, CFIA and CFII: all pretty much paid for by others. Had a lot of fun as well. But if I didn't have the certificates up front, I couldn't have taken advantage of the opportunities when they popped up. .
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Almost my story as well. Getting the cert has led me to over 3000 hrs with several Part 135 operators in Alaska. I do a lot of independent CFIing now as well. Contract PC-12 flying and instructing are all I do anymore after a background in construction. Got the cert then saw opportunities. It does help that I'm single and my one son is grown.
 
Like many, I got the Commercial certificate with no real plans of working full-time as a pilot. I got it because it was the "next" thing to do, and I enjoy learning things.

Now, many years later, it has turned into a full-time job, but that certainly wasn't the intent. But since I had the certificate, I was able to take advantage of opportunities as they came along, which they did, as my name got out there, especially once I became a CFI. Really, in my opinion, the best route to getting part-time commercial work is to be a CFI. Your name gets out there and you get hired for random one-off jobs, ferrying aircraft and that kind of thing, that you can control the timing of and turn down if it doesn't work with your schedule.

Other more long-term opportunities can also come along as a result. Regarding being home every night, before I began my current full-time flying job, I was acting as a contract pilot for some owners. Malibu, Cessna 340, 421, some Citation work a few years ago. In three years I probably spent a total of less than 10 nights away from home (I actually could only count 5 right now). Most often, I would take the owners somewhere, drop them off, and then fly the plane home. Go back a few days later to pick them up. Easy. I did have a full-time desk job with flexible hours so I could accommodate, but it kept me in the "game".

Stuff comes up. Get your Commercial so you're ready.
 
Most likely a 135 outfit will not offer any flexibility in schedule. Their pilots must be on payroll and have scheduled 6/12 mo checkrides. They will want you on call and ready to fly on a 2 hr callout. Benefits: steady pay and flight time. They cover training costs.

A part 91 contract gig just needs three landings for currency and you can say no if you aren’t available that day. You won’t get steady pay and flight hours. If your position requires type rating, you will have to pay for the initial and the annual recurrent training. And health care isn’t provided. Contract meaning they hire you for the day/trip.

You also could be a part 91 pilot for a company/owner and they would offer you steady pay, training, health care. Flexibility of schedule could vary wildly depending on the owner. Might just be day trips during the week, midnight flights to Vegas, or sitting in the Bahamas for a week.

I have heard of unicorn operators that allow family to join occasionally. Don’t count on that.
 
RussR said:
Really, in my opinion, the best route to getting part-time commercial work is to be a CFI. Your name gets out there and you get hired for random one-off jobs, ferrying aircraft and that kind of thing,
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To expand on this a little bit…don’t fall into the rut of “I can fly your 172 or Seminole.” Learn how to learn new airplanes. Read the AFM/POH and Supplements. If someone asks you to fly with them to their meeting because they’re not as instrument proficient as they’d like, let them find you in the FBO studying up on their airplane when they’re ready to head home.

I had a guy that I trained every six months in his Baron. He originally asked me to act as safety pilot because he was a few approaches short of currency. I realized that his flight review was due in just a couple of months, so he decided to do that as well, and since a lot of the flight review for that airplane could be covered by an IPC, he chose to reset everything. In the process, he realized he wasn’t as proficient as he thought, so we trained every twelve months for a couple of years, and then upped it to every six months to get him where he wanted to be. There came a point where I was so busy with my real job that it was extremely difficult for him to schedule me, but I couldn’t find an instructor who was willing to learn the Baron or it’s panel. They were satisfied with what they knew.

There are quite a few pilots out there who don’t know what they don’t know about their own airplanes. If you’re willing to learn it and teach them, you can get some work and provide safety benefits to their flying…doing a flight review because they “have to” generally doesn’t improve safety, but if you can provide some added value, they’ll seek you out and tell their friends.
 
The more extensive knowledge obtained through CPL training is invaluable. IFR adds more to it. The value of weather and aerodynamic theory can't be overstated. There are far too many accidents involving PPLs that could have been avoided if they'd known the stuff most CPLs know.

Of all the things a pilot can buy to improve the safety of his/her flying, training is by far the best value for money spent, and it's not bolted to the airplane, it doesn't get lost or stolen, and it weighs nothing. Of course, it has no resale value if you don't instruct...
 
4RNB said:
Situation: I have started studying at home for commercial license. Halfway just to keep my mind in the game while lots of upgrades occur, but also because all of my training was in the environment of young bucks aiming for the airlines. Plan is to get endorsement for written online, then Sheppard, test, then actual air work when back in my plane.

My spouse has medical issues (diabetic fog when sugars are low) such that it would really be best if I were home most or every night. Hence, I really think that any potential dream of most commercial piloting would not work well.

I wonder if I could just enjoy being a CFI/CFII but local schools use planes I do not fit well in. Other schools an hour to an hour and a half away do use 172s. I own a 172 but question the economics of private instruction.

I am likely to pursue the commercial license just for my own education and proficiency, but have questions for the POA illuminati and peanut gallery...

1. What are the economics of private instruction? Seems I would need more frequent inspections and much higher insurance, while being willing to handle abuse of my aircraft.

2. What "out of the box" ways might a commercial license be put to use that would allow being home each/most nights?

3. Do private flying jobs allow for a +1 to travel?

4. What else should I be thinking of?

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Is never an overkill if it can make you a better pilot. And if in addition to that, it can open some additional income stream as others had stated, then why not?
 
If the closer school is busy and you're open to the idea, why not a leaseback with the local school? Then instruct with them?
 
MauleSkinner said:
To expand on this a little bit…don’t fall into the rut of “I can fly your 172 or Seminole.” Learn how to learn new airplanes. Read the AFM/POH and Supplements. If someone asks you to fly with them to their meeting because they’re not as instrument proficient as they’d like, let them find you in the FBO studying up on their airplane when they’re ready to head home.

I had a guy that I trained every six months in his Baron. He originally asked me to act as safety pilot because he was a few approaches short of currency. I realized that his flight review was due in just a couple of months, so he decided to do that as well, and since a lot of the flight review for that airplane could be covered by an IPC, he chose to reset everything. In the process, he realized he wasn’t as proficient as he thought, so we trained every twelve months for a couple of years, and then upped it to every six months to get him where he wanted to be. There came a point where I was so busy with my real job that it was extremely difficult for him to schedule me, but I couldn’t find an instructor who was willing to learn the Baron or it’s panel. They were satisfied with what they knew.

There are quite a few pilots out there who don’t know what they don’t know about their own airplanes. If you’re willing to learn it and teach them, you can get some work and provide safety benefits to their flying…doing a flight review because they “have to” generally doesn’t improve safety, but if you can provide some added value, they’ll seek you out and tell their friends.
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Good point, one of the complaints I hear from examiners is they are doing CFI Checkrides with applicants that have only flown 2 airplanes. like a 172 and 172RG or a Warrior and an Arrow.

I find flying learning and flying new aircraft types and equipment to be the interesting part of instructing. I currently have nearly 125 types in my logbook and only one them is a multiengine airplane. I seem to keep quite entertained with one engine or less. I would probably really enjoy flying multiengine aircraft, I just don't have as much opportunity or need to do so.

Flying a C-182A is not the same as flying a C-182S. Then adapting the procedures to the student is also interesting. Teaching 97lb Grandmother to fly that 182 is different from teaching 20 something 200+lb Athlete. They are going to use different techniques to fly it the way that works best for them.
The problem is see with CFI's is them trying to teach cookie cutter techniques. Just about watched a CFI kill himself trying to fly a 2 seat Challenger II (Light sport), He insisted on landing with full flaps like he was taught in the 172. Turns out the Challenger doesn't really use flaps for slow flight but only for trim. So he essentially ran the Trim all the way forward (full flaps) and tried to land it.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Add me to the list that got their commercial certificate without any intention of making a career of it, and still haven't.

I got mine because I met almost all of the experience requirements, just needed a few hours of training on the maneuvers and a checkride basically.

Ended up having some odd flights thrown at me by the local FBO once I had it, ferry this airplane here, do an occasional sightseeing flight, fly here and pick up a flight crew from one of their managed aircraft that was being dropped off. Ended up working it into a multi certificate and getting right seat trained in a couple of aircraft for the odd 135 flight, but never a career change. Just a fun side gig, chance to fly new planes, and learn a thing or two.

Ultimately I did get my CFI, and did the odd instructing for the FBO afternoons and weekends around my day job. A fair amount of check-outs, BFRs, with a few primary students.
 
Because it's a hoot.

Did it on a lark after the instrument. It was like a vacation. Like Ed, I already had the experience, did the written and it was a piece of cake. The maneuvers were fun, and made me a much more precise pilot. Chandelles were a gas. After all the hours droning under the hood, looking outside for maneuvers was a treat.

Was waiting to get signed off to take the flight test when my CFII, who was also my partner in the airplane and good friend, took sick and passed of a sudden illness. Since I was doing it for fun that took the heart of me. I never did take the test, one of my few aviation regrets.
 
The guys who seem to enjoy their jobs the most that I know either went to the airlines (good money, make your own schedule eventually) or fly Part 91. 135 is a grind but also a great way to get turbine time and type ratings.

The good thing about Part 91 is you build a relationship with the owners and that can both provide security and perks. I know guys who get to take their wives to the Bahamas and Aspen multiple times a year. That’s not a thing in 135 fractional work.

Friend of mine has nine type ratings, mostly jets. His biggest gold mine? Part 91 King Air work with the 300 type rating. There are just so many of them out there.

Once you have 1000 hours or so, zero in on something you can get time in (right seat). Go from there. Eventually, pay for the type or initial training (BE90, TBM, Malibu, etc.) and you’ll find work.
 
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Like some of the others, I had no intention to fly professionally and never saw the point in getting my Commercial. At the time, I was on my fifth airplane, which was an Eclipse. That was about the time that, as a result of the Colgan accident, Congress changed the law which made getting the ATP much more difficult and expensive. Another Eclipse owner that is a good friend mentioned that he was going to get his ATP just for the heck of it before the process changed and I figured that made sense.

I studied for the Commercial and took the written exam online. After I passed that, I studied for and took the ATP written and passed that. At my next recurrent in the Eclipse, I got recommended for both the Commercial and ATP checkrides and did my recurrent with a DPE. The first day was my Commercial checkride and the second day was my ATP.checkride.

Within about a month, I started getting calls to serve as SIC on various planes and as PIC on some Eclipses. I found that I really enjoyed the contract flying gig, so I got myself known in the community and picked up additional jobs. I also started flying for a couple of 135 operators as a contract pilot, which requires a lot more work and checking a lot of boxes. Part 91 is much easier!

The flexibility of being a contract pilot works great for me because of my day job and family commitments, but you have to stay engaged and out there or you will stop getting calls. If you say no too many times, you go to the bottom of the list!

So, for a guy who used to say I would never fly professionally, getting the Commercial and ATP opened up an entirely new chapter of my life that has made me a much better pilot and has been an immense amount of fun!

Abram Finkelstein
N685AS
 
I did it because I could, with no purpose beyond that. But as others have said once you have it opportunities seem to come out of nowhere. IMHO it is the easiest rating to add on if you are up to speed in the first place.
 
4RNB said:
. . .

My spouse has medical issues (diabetic fog when sugars are low) such that it would really be best if I were home most or every night.
Thank you.
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You may be aware, but if not you could look into a Continuous Glucose Monitor, such as a Dexcom for your wife - they alert the wearer of low and high blood sugar levels, and also indicate the "rate" of change. There are other brands - my wife was not a fan of the Freestyle-type where the wearer has to "wave" the moniitor over the sensor on the upper arm. The Dexcom-type device requires no user action, and the sensor can be worn on the abdomen. With some you can substitute a BT phone app for the monitor, though, like all phone apps, the reliability is suspect.
 
Get the certificate. My 22 year old son started working on his, so I decided that it would be cool to get mine too. We had our respective check rides with the same DPE back to back on the same day. It made for a great picture (thankfully we both passed - or really thankfully I passed).

Two years later he is rapidly going through ratings and flies professionally for a Part 91 aircraft management company.

Me? I am maintaining my 2nd class medical so that I can be a "real" Commercial pilot.

I have yet to make a dime from it but am really glad I did it.
 
Sundancer said:
The Dexcom-type device requires no user action, and the sensor can be worn on the abdomen. With some you can substitute a BT phone app for the monitor, though, like all phone apps, the reliability is suspect.
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A benefit of the phone app used by the person wearing the sensor is the phone app then transmits the data into the company Servers where it can be viewed remotely on a "Follower" app to allow remote monitoring.
 
I'm working on commercial now and after passing, I plan to stay sharp and training up (tailwheel, multi, actual IMC) until a decent job opportunity gets me out of this cubicle.
 
Fixed wing MEDEVAC. Transporting body parts, air ambulance, etc.

Gee, comfortable in a hospital setting? Ha!
 
Mongoose Aviator said:
A benefit of the phone app used by the person wearing the sensor is the phone app then transmits the data into the company Servers where it can be viewed remotely on a "Follower" app to allow remote monitoring.
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Black hole of data - depends on your tolerance for that sort of thing. The minor benefit didn't outweigh our privacy concerns.
 
Because it’s a challenge,you can also fly part 135 on someone else’s dime.
 
I'm less than a week from taking the Commercial written. I'll next be lining up with the CFI to get the flight training going. I've got the 250+ hours, solo X Country and a few of the other requirement out of the way.

Why? Not looking to get paid for commercial flying. But it will sharpen my skills a bit. And in a few more years I'll get serious about getting my CFI and maybe CFII for retirement fun, and the Commercial rating is required for that.
 
Just took and passed my Commercial checkride 2 weeks ago. I will say the instrument added more value to my flying skills but I was surprised that the commercial maneuvers did in fact make me a better stick and rudder pilot. Pretty much all of the performance maneuvers are about control coordination and harmony. It was a fun certificate to train for. In fact, very little dual was needed for this one; just learn the maneuvers and go practice a bunch. Oh, and get mad at lazy 8's a time or too. lol The end goal for me is to be a CFII so I won't see money for a few more months. haha The checkride itself was pretty easy; other than the 20-30 kts for my power off 180.

You will also be surprised how accurate you will get with your landings too.
 
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As I mentioned in another thread, the bragging rights and ability to swoon your significant other with your pilot super powers is a big plus. At least that is what my dear wife is letting me believe. Yeah, I married up.
 
WDD said:
As I mentioned in another thread, the bragging rights and ability to swoon your significant other with your pilot super powers is a big plus. At least that is what my dear wife is letting me believe. Yeah, I married up.
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Works for student pilot girlfriends, too :lol:
 
Correction to what is said above:
You can tow Gliders without a commercial ticket. it’s in a letter from the FAA, now whether the glider port arbitrarily wants to to have Commercial anyways is up to them. (My glider port does not, just need enough tailwheel time).

However my experience is that (outside of a few high-volume commercial glider ports) you will _not_ make significant money doing this for the usual hobbyist glider club, it’s just a way to “help the flying community” on weekend and you get some lunch-money for your efforts. (Most Towpilots I know are glider flyers themselves). It doesn’t even really help to build time because most tows are only 0.2 flight with 0.8 hrs of waiting-around.
 
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You need to be a commercial with instrument rating or equivalent military.
 
ChopAndDrop said:
Correction to what is said above:
You can tow Gliders without a commercial ticket. it’s in a letter from the FAA, now whether the glider port arbitrarily wants to to have Commercial anyways is up to them. (My glider port does not, just need enough tailwheel time).
Click to expand...
The regs do not require a commercial certificate, but insurance often does if it is a commercial operation.
 
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