Do Yuou Self Insure

Do You Self Insure?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 10.6%

  • No

    Votes: 59 89.4%
  • Total voters
    66
I'm fully insured at the moment since I just bought the plane and the likelihood of me messing is up is higher for the first year or so.
I'll likely drop to liability only after that.

IMO liability is cheap, even as a low time pilot on a high hp retract aircraft it's only 500 bucks a year. Not carrying it is just a very poor financial decision IMO.
One mishap without it and you may end up right in the poor house.
 
Morgan3820 said:
He flies a single seat biplane, IIRC. I see it being a nonissue. I think that there are more uninsured planes out there than you might think. Tail draggers, home built, float planes, amphibians , warplanes, are all pretty hard to insure.
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I can't speak for warbirds or seaplane, but I haven't had trouble insuring homebuilt taildraggers.

I have liability and hull on my Hatz. The last three [inexpensive] planes I owned had liability only.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Maybe different in the States, but up here, it's $2M combined limit, person and property - no limit on the person as long as it's within the $2M overall limit.
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we would call that “$2m smooth” and it’s not easy to get here.
 
Dana said:
I can't speak for warbirds or seaplane, but I haven't had trouble insuring homebuilt taildraggers.

I have liability and hull on my Hatz. The last three [inexpensive] planes I owned had liability only.
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Maybe I am wrong then.
 
RyanB said:
Suppose you’d prefer floating a $100k loss out of pocket and the ensuing lawsuit, rather than let an insurance policy help cover it? Interesting way of thinking!
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That wasn't what I was getting at at all. It's unfortunate the cost of a life is 100k. It's unfortunate a family can sue a company that simply sold a fuel selector on an experimental aircraft, flown by someone who's medical was pulled following multiple DUIs. A plane that had a funky location for the selector that was purchased the day prior. It's unfortunate pilot error frequently results in lawsuits against entities whose goods or services had zero to do with a crash.

I should have clarified my initial response that I'm ok without hull insurance but liability is another story.
 
RyanB said:
Who controls your estate upon your death? I hope it’s your spouse or a family member. Your estate will be responsible for paying off any debts you owe, so if that gets wiped out, your family will be left with very little, if anything.
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This isn't exactly true. Most states have limits. So for example in my state they can not take your primary residence and they can not take your retirement unless it is "excessive" (think multi-millions). Now that isn't to say your life after the fact would be a bowl of cherries and you probably wouldn't have much spare cash to fly.

I carry insurance for several reasons. One because it is the right thing to do if you by chance injure someone. Two because if I am in a bad situation I don't want to think about trying to save the plane for an instant. At that point it becomes nothing but a force dissipation device.

If I get to an age where the cost is prohibitive I would likely give up the hull and keep the liability. If I couldn't afford that I probably can't afford to fly.
 
I have self insured the last two airplanes I've owned that are for personal use only. Almost all of my close airport friends also self insure. Of my circle of friends, there have been two aircraft losses as well and everyone has taken it in stride.

Thankfully I don't have to pay the insurance premiums on some of the aircraft I fly. The helicopter and float plane policy premiums alone are often more money than the total annual costs that a lot of recreational pilots/airplane owners have. It's enough to make you wish you could self insure them.
 
How does it work if you are 'self-insured' and some how taxi into my aircraft, totaling it out. You then just write me a check and own the totaled aircraft, correct?
 
Mxfarm said:
How does it work if you are 'self-insured' and some how taxi into my aircraft, totaling it out. You then just write me a check and own the totaled aircraft, correct?
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First determination that needs to be made is if it is really totaled. I would expect the ball to be in the court of the self-insured for that.

If my experience with insurance companies of all types is any indicator, you'll probably get a more favorable settlement from a self-insured individual than you would from an insurance company.
 
Question is how much is too much?
1% of hull value? 2% 3%…
I’m around 1%….2% I’m definitely self insuring, and probably less if I had to think about it.
 
I'll say it again. Simply having no insurance is not self insuring. Self insurance requires involvement with regulatory bodies. Insurance companies have to hold a certain amount of funds available to pay claims. Same is true in order to actually be self-insured. Having no insurance is being uninsured - not being self-insured.
 
schmookeeg said:
..,car insurance is required in many states after all.…
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Which is why it always make me wonder why some states not only require liability coverage, but also uninsured/underinsured policies.
 
TCABM said:
Which is why it always make me wonder why some states not only require liability coverage, but also uninsured/underinsured policies.
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would the insurance co’s possibly have influenced that legislation? Mo killed the helmet law for motorcycles, but your required to have life insurance. o_O
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Question is how much is too much?
1% of hull value? 2% 3%…
I’m around 1%….2% I’m definitely self insuring, and probably less if I had to think about it.
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The quote I got is almost 5% of hull value. Except for my age, I can’t see what they consider high risk.
 
NE does not require Motor Vehicle insurance, although everybody (including the county treasurers when you license vehicle) thinks it does. NE requires "proof of financial responsibility" to license a vehicle. The easiest way to meet this requirement is to have insurance.

I don't know how many other states' statutes are similar.
 
JD318 said:
NE does not require Motor Vehicle insurance, although everybody (including the county treasurers when you license vehicle) thinks it does. NE requires "proof of financial responsibility" to license a vehicle. The easiest way to meet this requirement is to have insurance.

I don't know how many other states' statutes are similar.
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South Dakota is the same way, except no evidence of financial responsibility is necessary to register a vehicle.
 
I just got my renewal and was pleasantly surprised, went up from $643 to $712 for the year, even though hull value went from $20K to $33K. But, this is in about the simplest, cheapest, lowest risk plane there is, a C150.

As an aside, I asked my broker to look into the cost and availability to insure a Lake Buccaneer because I still really want one. Only one company that might write a policy, estimated $10,000 for the year! $3-4000 for a Cessna on amphib floats. Guess I'll be sticking to land for a while yet.
 
Thread title really should be “Do Yuou Roll The Dice?”


Couldn’t help myself taking a shot at the typo. :)
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Maybe different in the States, but up here, it's $2M combined limit, person and property - no limit on the person as long as it's within the $2M overall limit.
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Just curious, what is your premium for $2MM CSL?
 
Technically I don't self insure. But I have decided I'm no longer taking passengers unless they're single and have no dependents and have reduced my coverage to $1MM CSL which is much more affordable and likely to cover most accidents I may have...
 
Gary Ward said:
I am waiting a unusually long time to get my quote for this year. Mine is due end of August. I am worried. Assured Partners is my agency.
I have to have some insurance since the airport I hangar at requires it.
I have to have insurance…not just because of the airport.
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I just renewed my policy with Assured. I had to ping them for a response but found them very responsive after that and got my policy in a couple of days. I think they're going through acquisitions and are in the process of combining multiple offices which may be why they're a little slow this year...
 
schmookeeg said:
Price out 2 or 5MM liability and you'll see that it's gets cheap "per MM" pretty quickly
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That has not been my experience...

schmookeeg said:
Hurting someone on the ground and then making their recovery "their problem" is insult added to injury, rude, and ultimately I believe, to GA's detriment. It's why car insurance is required in many states after all. Too many people hurt and left also holding the bag after a wreck.
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Is that really why car insurance is required? In CA the requirement is $35K. That's laughable. How far will $35K go in a serious automobile accident?
 
idahoflier said:
Just curious, what is your premium for $2MM CSL?
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I'm currently paying $2,000 for liability with $2M coverage (CSL) and full in-motion hull coverage with an insured value of $45,000. All amounts are Canadian dollars - not sure what the conversion rate is these days. Liability only was quoted at about $1,100.
 
MBDiagMan said:
The quote I got is almost 5% of hull value. Except for my age, I can’t see what they consider high risk.
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5%! Wow, have you had any problems that could drop your credit score? I’ve read insurance companies consider lower scores a higher risk.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I'm currently paying $2,000 for liability with $2M coverage (CSL) and full in-motion hull coverage with an insured value of $45,000. All amounts are Canadian dollars - not sure what the conversion rate is these days. Liability only was quoted at about $1,100.
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Oh, sorry! I didn't realize you were talking CAD. That actually seems close to what I was quoted.
 
It's really surprising to hear that people are flying around with no insurance. I can see in some situations not having any hull coverage. But no liability? The possible injuries to passengers or people and property on the ground not withstanding, one moments distraction or a brake failure and you taxi into a Gulfstream or even a ramp full of single engine piston aircraft could make a pretty big dent in your bank account.
 
8.5% of plane value on my home built……liability only
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
5%! Wow, have you had any problems that could drop your credit score? I’ve read insurance companies consider lower scores a higher risk.
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Washington state just outlawed this practice so now we all get to pay more:rolleyes:
 
Salty said:
Not buying insurance is not self insurance. Self insurance is setting aside enough money to cover your loss as well as any loss to others that you cause. Not being insured for liability is irresponsible and selfish.

if you don’t have at least a million set aside to cover losses you cause you are not insured, and you are part of the problem.
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Part of what problem?
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
5%! Wow, have you had any problems that could drop your credit score? I’ve read insurance companies consider lower scores a higher risk.
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I am retired and virtually debt free with good pensions and assets. I have not checked my credit score because I don’t use my credit. 4.34% to be exact.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I am retired and virtually debt free with good pensions and assets. I have not checked my credit score because I don’t use my credit. 4.34% to be exact.
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might check, just in case someone else has used your credit.
 
Funny thing is, not using your credit can lower your credit score. If you don't have any credit bills to pay, they cannot judge if you pay on time.
 
Pinecone said:
Funny thing is, not using your credit can lower your credit score. If you don't have any credit bills to pay, they cannot judge if you pay on time.
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True. I was showing "negatives" for not having a mortgage. The other thing which was lowering my score was "high credit card balance". Even though I pay off the balance every month. So I started paying the credit card bill before the closing date.

It's all just a game.
 
Hmm, so how far in advance do you need to pay to help out?

I sit down before the end of the month and reconcile every account and set up full payment on the due date.

Not that my credit score has any issues. Was approved for a loan for a plane in about 24 hours. :D
 
Paying credit card prior to closing date…interesting idea…I get dinged as well for high balances paid off every month…easy enough…don’t plan on borrowing money but credit sores do effect prices in other industries.
 
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