Cessna R182 hard landing

thesmug

thesmug

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thesmug
Just got our new R182 back home today and it was about 100 degrees and extremely humid so I was already having a pretty hard time. We had a somewhat hard landing that bounced once, main gear first on the initial touch and the bounce after. Half of my hours are in a 172RG, and I’ve never had as hard a landing as this so I really don’t know how to gauge whether this might have damaged the gear. Externally, everything looks ok, taxiing feels fine, no external damage visible and the firewall looks ok. The only sign of anything is a little oil (definitely not hydraulic fluid) on the left main gear strut near the retract point. I am leaning towards just having a mechanic check to be absolutely sure but I want to know if there’s anything else I should look for that would be indicative of damage.
 
The main landing gear pivots are crack-prone, and since the brake hydraulic fluid is channeled through them, I would get it checked for cracks. Hydraulic fluid leaking from that area is a bad sign, and since there is no oil anywhere near that area other than hydraulic fluid, used in both the brake system and the gear actuator, it's a concern.

https://www.cessnaflyer.org/media/kunena/attachments/2700/CessnaSEB90-1R3.pdf

An excerpt:

upload_2022-6-14_19-43-53.png

And if they have to take stuff apart, this one should also be done:

https://support.cessna.com/custsupt/contacts/pubs/ourpdf.pdf?as_id=21894
 
A number of areas can be damaged by a hard landing. I’d be equally, if not more concerned about the firewall though.
Always go around after a bounce like that. Don’t wait for the second bounce, or the hard landing to occur. It can be ok to reestablish a proper pitch attitude and land but not advisable in most situations. We now teach a normal go around in this situation.
We also teach to leave the gear down during the go around, if performance allows. Just in case there’s gear damage.
 
not cheap to overhaul a pivot these days either. Ditto for the R/R labor.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Hydraulic fluid leaking from that area is a bad sign, and since there is no oil anywhere near that area other than hydraulic fluid, used in both the brake system and the gear actuator, it's a concern.
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Strangely, that spot of fluid is very dark and sticky like old engine oil. The fluid in the reservoir is red like you’d expect. I don’t really have any idea what else it could be, though.
 
I guess the first question is did you get a model check out by a CFI that was very familiar with the R182? If you broke something it sure would have been money well spent.


Generally the possible damage from a hard landing is a cracked pivot and or a bent gear leg. You will know the gear leg is bent on the models with a gear up indicator light if it does not illuminate in the gear up position or goes up with a clunk as it binds on the skin. Leaking fluid from the brakes at the pivot or a break pedal that goes to the floor when taxing over a rough surface is the indication of a cracked pivot.

The fluid you see on the left gear leg is engine oil. A broken pivot will leak internally and drip fluid from the drain hole in the center of the bottom skin between the area where the gear enters the fuselage. The fluid comes from the breaks and it will take some time for enough to accumulate to start dripping.
 
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Clip4 said:
I guess the first question is did you get a model check out by a CFI that was very familiar with the R182? If you broke something it sure would have been money well spent.


Generally the damage from a hard landing is a cracked pivot and or a bent gear leg. You will know the gear leg is bent on the models with a gear up indicator light if it does not illuminate in the gear up position or goes up with a clunk as it binds on the skin. Leaking fluid from the brakes at the pivot or a break pedal that goes to the floor is the indication of a cracked pivot
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Yes, it was the end of a very long, hot day flying with him nonstop. I’m going to check it tomorrow but I really, really don’t want to fly the plane to check if the gear is bent. Brake should be easier to check.
 
If it’s worth posting here, worth getting looked at, normally it takes some “you know you probably broke something” level landing to bend a leg or something. But have it looked at.
 
Jackk said:
If it’s worth posting here, worth getting looked at, normally it takes some “you know you probably broke something” level landing to bend a leg or something. But have it looked at.
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Part of the issue is that I really have no idea if I’ve damaged it. I’m just used to hearing about the fragile landing gear on the Cessna retractables and was under the impression that a bounce means it’s broken. It was definitely not a porpoise, and got too slow maybe 3 or 4 feet above the runway. We will have a mechanic look at it but I was unsure about what to look for myself after we taxied back to make sure I didn’t completely destroy the plane.
 
thesmug said:
Part of the issue is that I really have no idea if I’ve damaged it. I’m just used to hearing about the fragile landing gear on the Cessna retractables and was under the impression that a bounce means it’s broken. It was definitely not a porpoise, and got too slow maybe 3 or 4 feet above the runway. We will have a mechanic look at it but I was unsure about what to look for myself after we taxied back to make sure I didn’t completely destroy the plane.
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If a bounce meant it was broke, there wouldn’t be many flying lol.
 
If you didn’t have to vacuum crumbly insulation that dropped from under the panel, then you didn’t land hard enough :D
 
thesmug said:
Strangely, that spot of fluid is very dark and sticky like old engine oil. The fluid in the reservoir is red like you’d expect. I don’t really have any idea what else it could be, though.
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Dark and sticky suggests hydraulic fluid that has been laying there a long time. It darkens with exposure to air, and gets sticky as its lighter components evaporate.

That stickiness is why I tell people not to wipe down their oleo struts with 5606. It dries to that sticky consistency, attracts dust and grit, and carries that crud up into the bearing and seals. Stickiness also results in spiral-fracturing the O-ring in there.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Dark and sticky suggests hydraulic fluid that has been laying there a long time. It darkens with exposure to air, and gets sticky as its lighter components evaporate.

That stickiness is why I tell people not to wipe down their oleo struts with 5606. It dries to that sticky consistency, attracts dust and grit, and carries that crud up into the bearing and seals. Stickiness also results in spiral-fracturing the O-ring in there.
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That makes sense, maybe it was there to begin with and I never saw it. Another possibility I had considered was during the touchdown the stress on the gear may have briefly deformed the O ring inside the pivot there enough to let a small amount out. It doesn’t explain why it would be so old looking. Maybe there’s an ongoing slow leak I didn’t know about? The gear pump would cycle once every half hour or so in flight.
 
thesmug said:
That makes sense, maybe it was there to begin with and I never saw it. Another possibility I had considered was during the touchdown the stress on the gear may have briefly deformed the O ring inside the pivot there enough to let a small amount out. It doesn’t explain why it would be so old looking. Maybe there’s an ongoing slow leak I didn’t know about? The gear pump would cycle once every half hour or so in flight.
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The hard landing won't deform a seal. It can crack the pivot and if the crack extends into the brake fluid channel, it seeps fluid. The brake fluid is carried into the rotating pivot through a swivel fitting that can develop small leaks. Hard landings won't affect it.

Occasional pump cycling suggest a slow leak, and that could be in a lot of places. One of the actuator piston O-rings leaking a bit can do it, or a scored bore in the actuator. The hand pump has check valves in it that can develop a small leak. The powerpack itself could have an internal leak. The gear selector has seals that get worn and leak. Had one of those fail with the airplane in the shop on the jacks. In flight, the gear would not have locked down. Anything that lets the pressure fall will cycle the pump.

Depending on the year of the airplane, the gear system seals are all supposed to be replaced every five years. I think that applied to airplanes up to 1978 or so. After that, it was on-condition. The seal material had changed. A failed gear actuator piston O-ring is a very serious deal. It bypasses the fluid and prevents any pressure buildup in the system, meaning that you cannot get the mains down and locked against the wind. The nosegear might not lock down. The hand pump can't do anything, either, in that case.
 
Last year had to replace the firewall and corresponding internal structure due to a very hard landing, not saying your 182 is anywhere near as hurt as the one I repaired, the thing I noticed was the corresponding damage, I'd strongly suggest getting a structure mechanic to take a look,
I just got another 182 in due to hard landing and oh buddy is it bad. I'd like to poke my eyes on your 182, if you have any questions about were to take your measurements from please feel free to contact me.
 
thesmug said:
Strangely, that spot of fluid is very dark and sticky like old engine oil. The fluid in the reservoir is red like you’d expect. I don’t really have any idea what else it could be, though.
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What did the pre buy report say. Was it there at that time?
 
Dunno about the retracts, but the gear on the fixed gear Skylanes are stout as can be. I was in one when a friend had the hardest landing I've even experienced (ever), and the aircraft soldiered on. Impressive things, those Skylanes.
 
thesmug said:
Part of the issue is that I really have no idea if I’ve damaged it. I’m just used to hearing about the fragile landing gear on the Cessna retractables and was under the impression that a bounce means it’s broken. It was definitely not a porpoise, and got too slow maybe 3 or 4 feet above the runway. We will have a mechanic look at it but I was unsure about what to look for myself after we taxied back to make sure I didn’t completely destroy the plane.
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The gear on a R182 is not fragile and if you were 2 people in the plane with a 3 ft drop you likely didn’t damage anything. The plane will land nicely with 20°- full flap and an approach of 70 or 75 in a x wind. Yes, if you let it get too slow you get a high sink rate and 65 full flap is as slow as you want until you better understand the plane.

Hot day and fatigue is no excuse. If you don’t know how to fly the plane get with a CFI who does. Your typical flight school CFI will have zero time in that model.
 
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Clip4 said:
The gear on a R182 is not fragile and if you were 2 people in the plane with a 3 ft drop you likely didn’t damage anything.
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The R182's gear is nowhere near as stout as the straight-leg version. The service bulletins prove it, and any mechanic that has worked on, had them apart, and flown both as I have, knows this.

Having retracts results in compromises. Can't get around that.
 
It’s not necessarily just a short free fall after a bounce. A lowered (reduced) AOA is a very common reaction after the first bounce, which imposes a much higher descent rate. Can easily exceed structural design. Especially if all is imposed onto one gear, the nose particularly.
 
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Dan Thomas said:
The R182's gear is nowhere near as stout as the straight-leg version. The service bulletins prove it, and any mechanic that has worked on, had them apart, and flown both as I have, knows this.

Having retracts results in compromises. Can't get around that.
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Not as stout and fragile is quite a difference.
 
The skylane requires alot more trim that what you might be used to. Not trimmed for landing makes the landing more of a struggle and makes it really easy to bounce it imo. My CFI that trained me in our club plane instilled a lot of trimming.
 
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