How to solve the US pilot shortage

or perhaps change the forced retirement age...

???
 
Lol!

There is no “pilot shortage” it’s a pay shortage.

Why would someone work for a regional, live in a 3 star motel, and make far less than a 135 who is home more and has a better quality of life?

The airlines and their unions are all about pushing this BS “pilot shortage”

Its the same pay to play, same reason for the 65yr old mandatory firing, at the time they finally make the advertised big money, despite being able to hold a 1st class medial, same with needing 1,000hrs 121 time to make capt, despite the plane not knowing what FAR it’s operating under, and science not caring, toss a engine on takeoff, it’s the same 91/135/121


The reason the 1500 is under the paid for media eye, if you’re only paying 50k a year, who is more willing to live in the back of their car to fly a regional, a 500hr wonder, or a experienced professional ATP?
 
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The article does a fairly good job of pointing out that airline accidents or near misses are less likely to be caused by insufficient hours under the belts of the crew, and more likely insufficient quality of the crew's current training/proficiency. The 1500 hour rule doesn't do much to address that.

Extending the retirement age is fine with me so long as we have two+ crew members, but it may not actually help with the current perceived shortages/cancellations/etc.
 
RingLaserGyroSandwich said:
The article does a fairly good job of pointing out that airline accidents or near misses are less likely to be caused by insufficient hours under the belts of the crew, and more likely insufficient quality of the crew's current training/proficiency. The 1500 hour rule doesn't do much to address that.

Extending the retirement age is fine with me so long as we have two+ crew members, but it may not actually help with the current perceived shortages/cancellations/etc.
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I disagree

I think what makes the US the best is how pilots traditionally came up from smaller planes to bigger aircraft, something not allowed under European and other regimes, the experience very much matters, just like for a good doctor or craftsman or anyone else.
 
I'd like to see them remove the color blind thing being a first class medical disqualifier. Both my dad and my sister are color blind.
 
Jackk said:
Lol!

There is no “pilot shortage” it’s a pay shortage.

Why would someone work for a regional, live in a 3 star motel, and make far less than a 135 who is home more and has a better quality of life?

The airlines and their unions are all about pushing this BS “pilot shortage”
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While that was true a few years ago, that’s certainly not the case today. The regionals are offering good pay and bonuses, so those of us trying to hire pilots for Part 91 and 135 gigs are having a hard time. Eliminating the 1500 hour rule will put the nail in the coffin for us.
 
Jackk said:
I disagree

I think what makes the US the best is how pilots traditionally came up from smaller planes to bigger aircraft, something not allowed under European and other regimes, the experience very much matters, just like for a good doctor or craftsman or anyone else.
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You said you disagree with me and then made a point that doesn't seem to contradict what I said.
 
Unless extending the retirement age has no effect on current pilots retiring at 65 with full retirement benefits, there will be a lot of angry senior pilots who wanted to retire at 65. I think you'll find the number that want to work past 65 after making good money for a couple decades isn't that high. That would also reduce the number of retired airline pilots who switch to "retirement careers" as CFIs, which isn't a good thing.
 
Dave Theisen said:
While that was true a few years ago, that’s certainly not the case today. The regionals are offering good pay and bonuses, so those of us trying to hire pilots for Part 91 and 135 gigs are having a hard time. Eliminating the 1500 hour rule will put the nail in the coffin for us.
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Yep, 25 years ago when I was able to move to a regional the starting pay was 900/mth. A senior captain for a regional made around 3700/mth. Heck I made more than that selling race fuel to race teams during the recession.
 
Dave Theisen said:
While that was true a few years ago, that’s certainly not the case today. The regionals are offering good pay and bonuses, so those of us trying to hire pilots for Part 91 and 135 gigs are having a hard time. Eliminating the 1500 hour rule will put the nail in the coffin for us.
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What’s the average regional FO make first year on guarantee?
 
Say they reduce the 1500 hour rule, there is a good chance pay and all the current bonuses will go away. New pilots are already crying that $70k a year isn’t good enough. Back in the late 90s, starting pay was around $17k a year. The other game was pay for training. You pay the airline $10k-$15k for the training after you are hired. But if you fail the training, you are out of a job and out of the money you paid for training.

Also back the to get with the airline, you would not even be looked at unless you had 250 or 500 multi, I forget which it was.
 
jordane93 said:
Probably around 60K. Plus whatever bonuses they’re getting.
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So a hair UNDER HALF what a 1500hrs 135 FO would make?

Gee, why wouldn’t people be kicking down the regional doors!

Must be a pilot shortage! Issues visas to everyone stat!
 
Dave Theisen said:
While that was true a few years ago, that’s certainly not the case today. The regionals are offering good pay and bonuses, so those of us trying to hire pilots for Part 91 and 135 gigs are having a hard time. Eliminating the 1500 hour rule will put the nail in the coffin for us.
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Because there will be more eligible pilots, but you won’t hire them? If they expanded the hours there will be more pilots. Yes, some of your top hour pilots will jump, but the airlines aren’t hurting for candidates.

What this will do for 135 is lower the average hours of pilots. There will be lower hour pilots to fill in where higher hour ones leave.
 
Jackk said:
So a hair UNDER HALF what a 1500hrs 135 FO would make?

Gee, why wouldn’t people be kicking down the regional doors!

Must be a pilot shortage! Issues visas to everyone stat!
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Which companies are paying 1500 hour FOs 120K? I’m not familiar with 135 pay and genuinely curious. I would have thought 60K for a 1500 FO at a 135 is on par. The earning potential and retirement at 121 is usually way better than 135. At every regional, you’re upgrading as soon as you have 1000 hours SIC 121 and you’re easily making over 100K. You’re not making 60K forever.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
It still is…
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No

90k plus is probably 75% of 135 FOs

And more home every nights, better match on a 401k, better health benefits.

To break into the 121 world it’s a downgrade for anyone with 1500hrs or better.

Go check out the surveys in pro jet pilot mag
 
Jackk said:
No

90k plus is probably 75% of 135 FOs

And more home every nights, better match on a 401k, better health benefits.

To break into the 121 world it’s a downgrade for anyone with 1500hrs or better.

Go check out the surveys in pro jet pilot mag
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For how long? I mean seriously how long will it stay that way? Things are changing fast and while some non 121 jobs may pay better than first year pay at an airline the life long earning at a 121 are still far better than any charter job. What 135 job does all the things you say? Home every night, better than 16% direct contribution to a 401k, better health insurance? Sounds like you are selling snake oil.

edit: I am speaking from personal experience. Also I do read those pay surveys. Airlines are hands down the best paying jobs in the industry. It’s definitely possible to have a great career doing something else but it will not pay as well.
 
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There is no 1,500 hour rule. It is an ATP rule.

You can earn an ATP with 750, 1,000, 1,250, or 1,500 hours TT, depends on how you were trained.

The ATP also requires a long list of other experience requirements along with additional training and knowledge requirements.
 
bflynn said:
Because there will be more eligible pilots, but you won’t hire them? If they expanded the hours there will be more pilots. Yes, some of your top hour pilots will jump, but the airlines aren’t hurting for candidates.

What this will do for 135 is lower the average hours of pilots. There will be lower hour pilots to fill in where higher hour ones leave.
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You just don’t get it. If the airlines can hire lower time pilots, that means LESS pilots to fly GA, not more. Sure, I can hire a dozen 300 hour copilots tomorrow, but the still have to fly with someone. At minimum, Part 135 requires 1200 hours to be PIC.
 
Dave Theisen said:
we are what the market and ownership has forced us to be. And Jackk is only half your name.
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Sorry to hear that, lots of opportunities right now if you want to get on with a better operator.

Yes, Jack is only half of my name
 
Jackk said:
Sorry to hear that, lots of opportunities right now if you want to get on with a better operator.

Yes, Jack is only half of my name
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I’m just fine, thanks. The point is, in this climate, some segments of the industry are going to wither and die.
 
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