Admission To Hospital Question

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No, it was .163 and that’s closer to every 10 minutes than it is to 30 minutes.

A drink every 10min is not only very abnormal for normal people, as the average person will have a new drink every 1/2hr or so in a social drinking setting, it’s also a BAC far from the normal social outing you’d see of .13-16 after a normal outing of 3-4hrs
 
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A drink every 10min is not only very abnormal for normal people, as the average person will have a new drink every 1/2hr or so in a social drinking setting, it’s also a BAC far from the normal social outing you’d see of .13-16 after a normal outing of 3-4hrs
You are still ignoring the bold statement under the chart telling you to subtract .015 each hour. I guess you never learned how to calculate takeoff and landing distances properly since you can’t simply use the number on the chart, you have to “Grass Runway, Dry - Add 20% to ground roll distance.”, etc
 
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You are still ignoring the bold statement under the chart telling you to subtract .015 each hour. I guess you never learned how to calculate takeoff and landing distances properly since you can’t simply use the number on the chart, you have to “Grass Runway, Dry - Add 20% to ground roll distance.”, etc

I never leaned to calculate landing distance and ground roll, why would I need to know this?

Also the crazy idea of 1 drink every 10 minutes, for a 4hr outing still is way north of a normal night out at .13-.16
 
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grind grind grind the axe......

You two have bad blood?

He does make a point, medically, why does the FAA attempt to prevent getting a second opinion on a medical matter?
 
a normal night out at .13-.16

0.13 - 0.15 BAC Very obviously drunk. Severe impairment to judgment, perception, and major motor skills. Very slow reaction time. Blurred vision, loss of balance and slurred speech. Feelings of well being starting to be replaced by anxiety and restlessness (dysphoria). Vomiting common.

I'm very thankful that I'm not normal ...
 
What I think is ridiculous is you quoting my post where I say I'm done and you continuing to argue.

BTW, the safety risk is a non-sober alcoholic, but you don't care.

You said it was *your* last post. Not mine. :)

You keep trying to make it about people flying impaired, even though I've clarified several times that we aren't talking about pilots flying impaired. We *all* agree that's a flight risk and well within the purview of the FAA.

What *I* am saying is that flying impaired should be the extent of the FAA's concern. If the alcoholic pilot (or non-alcoholic, for that matter. One doesn't have to be an alcoholic to be regularly drinking and developing a tolerance) is sober at the stick, then the FAA shouldn't care what they do with their time outside the cockpit.

Given that no one, in nine page of posts, has been able to demonstrate a safety risk to an alcohol tolerant pilot flying an airplane while sober, it seems clear that there isn't one. So, we're left with the FAA being puritanical and grunting "alcohol bad" while ignoring other risky behaviours by pilots that could effect their health, but also don't pose a flight safety risk.
 
You said it was *your* last post. Not mine. :)

You keep trying to make it about people flying impaired, even though I've clarified several times that we aren't talking about pilots flying impaired. We *all* agree that's a flight risk and well within the purview of the FAA.

What *I* am saying is that flying impaired should be the extent of the FAA's concern. If the alcoholic pilot (or non-alcoholic, for that matter. One doesn't have to be an alcoholic to be regularly drinking and developing a tolerance) is sober at the stick, then the FAA shouldn't care what they do with their time outside the cockpit.

Given that no one, in nine page of posts, has been able to demonstrate a safety risk to an alcohol tolerant pilot flying an airplane while sober, it seems clear that there isn't one. So, we're left with the FAA being puritanical and grunting "alcohol bad" while ignoring other risky behaviours by pilots that could effect their health, but also don't pose a flight safety risk.

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Since we're expressing ourselves with memes, I'll add my summary of this thread.

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It takes two hours to metabolize a drink. One hour halves your BAC. Unless you chugged the entire six pack, you won’t have a .163 BAC from a six pack. If you chugged a six pack, well then, my point is still made.

This is definitely one of the dumbest things I've read on here. Given your laughable lack of understanding of the basic maths of alcohol, the self-righteous rubbish you've been spewing about drinking becomes all the more absurd :rolleyes:
 
This is definitely one of the dumbest things I've read on here. Given your laughable lack of understanding of the basic maths of alcohol, the self-righteous rubbish you've been spewing about drinking becomes all the more absurd :rolleyes:
I misread or trusted an untrustworthy site, that post was incorrect
 
Since we're expressing ourselves with memes, I'll add my summary of this thread.

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Being a administration that is built to serve the public with the publics funds, yes it does need to be fair and just, other wise might as well just go Wild West. One doesn’t cry about these matters as a adult, we talk to our representatives and fix it, that’s our duty as citizens of this great country.
 
You CAN get such. I have done that more that a handful of times!

Why not promote it and make these lists public, the rest of the medical world encourages getting more opinions.
 
Beucase then the pilots go shopping and in psychiatry it can be hard to tell, what you're getting. Hey that decision is at least eight pay grades above me.
 
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You guys are making a great point. There's a lot of push these days for inclusion, and recognizing people's differences and life choices. Colored ribbons and buttons and all that stuff. So if someone it going to start a campaign to addresses FAA's rules on alcohol, maybe give it a catchy phrase, like "drunks are people too!". I would suggest a ribbon that swerves a little bit, like a wiggly double yellow line. Advance the argument that we figure they'll be pretty good at making judgements on when and when not to fly, based on their current level of ability, based on all that scientific evidence that points to the overall responsibility of functional alcoholics. :) Sure, that'll work.

Then maybe in a few years, passengers will sometimes hear "Is there a sober person on the aircraft? We need someone to blow into this little plastic tube so we can start the plane."
 
Beucase then the pilots go shopping and in psychiatry it can be hard to ell, what you're getting. Hey that decision is at least eight pay grades above me.

What’s interesting is that a quick Google search for “HIMs Psychiatrist,” yields many results for Psychiatrists that are advertising publicly that they are in fact HIMs Psychiatrists. If the identities of them are supposed to be non public, perhaps they shouldn’t be advertising their status on their websites. In fact, one has even purchased an ad at the top.
 

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You guys are making a great point. There's a lot of push these days for inclusion, and recognizing people's differences and life choices. Colored ribbons and buttons and all that stuff. So if someone it going to start a campaign to addresses FAA's rules on alcohol, maybe give it a catchy phrase, like "drunks are people too!". I would suggest a ribbon that swerves a little bit, like a wiggly double yellow line. Advance the argument that we figure they'll be pretty good at making judgements on when and when not to fly, based on their current level of ability, based on all that scientific evidence that points to the overall responsibility of functional alcoholics. :) Sure, that'll work.

Then maybe in a few years, passengers will sometimes hear "Is there a sober person on the aircraft? We need someone to blow into this little plastic tube so we can start the plane."

what are you talking about?

Where did anyone say someone who is drunk should fly? No one said that.

I have the radical idea that the FAA should follow modern evidence based medicine.
 
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I'm not suggesting anyone is promoting drunk flying. I am suggesting that people seem to be promoting drunks flying. That's how the arguments seem to me.
 
What *I* am saying is that flying impaired should be the extent of the FAA's concern. If the alcoholic pilot (or non-alcoholic, for that matter. One doesn't have to be an alcoholic to be regularly drinking and developing a tolerance) is sober at the stick, then the FAA shouldn't care what they do with their time outside the cockpit.

Given that no one, in nine page of posts, has been able to demonstrate a safety risk to an alcohol tolerant pilot flying an airplane while sober, it seems clear that there isn't one. So, we're left with the FAA being puritanical and grunting "alcohol bad" while ignoring other risky behaviours by pilots that could effect their health, but also don't pose a flight safety risk.

I think if you are regularly drinking and develop a tolerance that is the definition of alcoholic, according to the FAA. If you have developed any kind of tolerance, then when you are sober (BAC of 0.00000 etc.) that doesn’t equate the condition of being sober when you have never developed a tolerance. I think that’s a large part of the FAA’s concern. Drunks aren’t just dangerous when they’re drunk, they function at an impaired capacity when they are sober too.
 
I'm pretty sure about half the adult population of Europe would be considered alcoholics by the FAA's standards.

I’m pretty sure about half of the US pilot population would be considered to be at least abusers by the FAA.
 
If you have developed any kind of tolerance, then when you are sober (BAC of 0.00000 etc.) that doesn’t equate the condition of being sober when you have never developed a tolerance.
So when I have no alcohol in my blood, I'm still intoxicated because I have a tolerance to alcohol? I don't think that's how it works.
 
So when I have no alcohol in my blood, I'm still intoxicated because I have a tolerance to alcohol? I don't think that's how it works.

Well, maybe it's like this......

If someone is so foolish that they drink enough to develop a high tolerance for alcohol, then even when they're sober they're still a fool.

:)
 
One of my favorite lines from an airplane movie "Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue!"
 
I'm not suggesting anyone is promoting drunk flying. I am suggesting that people seem to be promoting drunks flying. That's how the arguments seem to me.

drunks are people who are drunk, again no one said someone who is drunk should fly.

Guess, in your opinion, none of the founding fathers would have had a sharp enough mind to handle small GA aircraft.
 
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So when I have no alcohol in my blood, I'm still intoxicated because I have a tolerance to alcohol? I don't think that's how it works.

I didn’t say you were intoxicated, I said you were impaired. It’s called withdrawal. Your neurotransmitters get used to a certain level of substance if you make it a habit. Deprive it (your brain) of your regular dose and you have symptoms that can severely affect your cognition and performance. Seizures even, if your tolerance was high enough.
 
I didn’t say you were intoxicated, I said you were impaired. It’s called withdrawal. Your neurotransmitters get used to a certain level of substance if you make it a habit. Deprive it (your brain) of your regular dose and you have symptoms that can severely affect your cognition and performance. Seizures even, if your tolerance was high enough.
You seem to be conflating tolerance and dependence. Tolerance doesn't cause withdrawal.

https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa28.htm
 
But wait, this, like ALL aspects of this scam, is exempt from medical criteria. In the eyes of the FAA, tolerance (and their definition of tolerance has no basis either) IS dependence...

To wit:

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Just like denial is a primary diagnostic criteria... anyone remember Salem?
 
The Congress gave FAA the power, to define alcoholism in a Mamet strict enough to control the like of then un rehabbed Capt. Lyle Prouse, for example.

Congress!
All this is railing against your congress. Good luck with that!
 
Gosh, this is so simple I'm amazed no one can figure it out. Pilots flying under the influence of anything is bad. I think we can all agree on that. The problem is if you leave until the pilot flies impaired, you're too late. So the FAA, which is charged with keeping impaired pilots out of the cockpit, has to have metrics. One is if you're arrested for a DUI. Mind you not convicted, lawyers have Jedi mind tricks. Just arrested. If a sworn LEO thinks you're that big a danger, the FAA wants to know. The other is if you're running around doing something other than being asleep with a high BAC. If you're doing that, it means that you've been abusing the heck out of alcohol but haven't been caught yet. These things are associated with numbers, as most government things are.

Of course they're going to miss the occasional alcoholic who keep sit well under control. And occasionally someone will get caught who may not belong there, victim of a vengeful LEO or miscalibrated sensor. But the HIMS program has a long record of success, and it beats being fired.
 
What if the HIMS program GOT YOU FIRED? I know LOTS of folks like that. False positive Peth tests leading the charge, simply weaponizing it coming in second. Followed by the extra HIMS hobby of weaponizing FFD evaluations.

Where does that fit? Ya, in the big scheme it’s really not that many. It’s only a few who’s basic American rights are being trod upon. It ain’t me, so what do I care? Better to be EXTRA safe, right?


“The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety.”

H. L. Mencken


Remind me again how many non events have to occur to make this ok? What was the safety record before HIMS?
 
"It ain't a perfect world and you might as well get used to that ... " :)
 
What if the HIMS program GOT YOU FIRED? I know LOTS of folks like that. False positive Peth tests leading the charge, simply weaponizing it coming in second. Followed by the extra HIMS hobby of weaponizing FFD evaluations.

What was the pilot doing in HIMS in the first place if he or she had no problems with substance abuse?

Where does that fit? Ya, in the big scheme it’s really not that many. It’s only a few who’s basic American rights are being trod upon. It ain’t me, so what do I care? Better to be EXTRA safe, right?

Flying isn't a right, it isn't enumerated in the Constitution. It is a privilege, one for which you must maintain good sobriety and moral upright character.


“The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear - fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety.”

H. L. Mencken
https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/h-l-mencken-quotes

Avoiding disaster isn't fear, it's good sense.


Remind me again how many non events have to occur to make this ok? What was the safety record before HIMS?

None of this emerged in a vacuum. Our regulations are all written in blood.
 
The Congress gave FAA the power, to define alcoholism in a Mamet strict enough to control the like of then un rehabbed Capt. Lyle Prouse, for example.

Congress!
All this is railing against your congress. Good luck with that!

Many law makers outlawed plastic straws based on a phone survey by a 9yr old.

 
Flying isn't a right, it isn't enumerated in the Constitution.
According to the Ninth Amendment, the fact that something is not enumerated in the Constitution does not prove that it isn't a right.

The right to due process, by the way, is enumerated in the Constitution.
 
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What was the pilot doing in HIMS in the first place if he or she had no problems with substance abuse?



Flying isn't a right, it isn't enumerated in the Constitution. It is a privilege, one for which you must maintain good sobriety and moral upright character.



Avoiding disaster isn't fear, it's good sense.




None of this emerged in a vacuum. Our regulations are all written in blood.

Might be in hims after having a responsible night out only to get sexually assaulted (woman), or to get stabbed (gentleman who started this topic), if you read this topic through.


Working for the FAA isn’t a right ether.


Show me the medical studies that reaffirm the FAAs stance.
 
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