Why are pilots so hesitant to declare an emergency?

I'm amazed how many people say they won't declare because they don't want an FAA investigation.

1. That probably won't happen
2. What are you trying to hide?
1. It CAN happen.
2. Nothing, but if you run into the wrong Fed you might find out what he thinks you're trying to hide.

In reality, it's unlikely, but all it takes is a few examples to get around for people to think twice about potential consequences.

When my crew bellied a Cardinal in after an hour of unsuccessful attempts to extend it, they had the trucks ready and it was *mostly* a non-event. I think a good scenario-based course on what to do after an accident wouldn't be bad for pilots to take from time to time.

I agree with some others that if there's something someone outside the plane can do to help, it's worth going ahead and declaring, and that might be as simple as making sure you have priority for the runway, and that others know there may be a delay.
 
Interesting post. I got my first license in the UK back in 1971 and had to take a course for my Radio Telephony Operators License. The test was in a VC-10 simulator. Very very realistic. I had to do a number of Pan calls as well as Mayday calls. They were very clear about the distinction between a Pan and a Mayday. Pan should probably be used more in the US as it is in other countries.
My only emergency was years ago when I lost vac at gross weight and in the scud, I was at max altitude. Never even thought about declaring an emergency as I was so busy surviving. The ATC facility was military and offered no help at all, when switched to the next sector they offer none gyro vectors and all was well.
 
I think there is a valid fear that the FAA will change the significance of having an emergency in the past, and make future renewals problematic.

They did that with the medicals, as has been discussed on this web site in detail.
I don’t think that’s a valid concern. Declare if it’s needed.
 
I had to declare after a passenger riding right seat slumped over unconscious. ATC was great. No paperwork.
 
Interesting post. I got my first license in the UK back in 1971 and had to take a course for my Radio Telephony Operators License. The test was in a VC-10 simulator. Very very realistic. I had to do a number of Pan calls as well as Mayday calls. They were very clear about the distinction between a Pan and a Mayday. Pan should probably be used more in the US as it is in other countries.
My only emergency was years ago when I lost vac at gross weight and in the scud, I was at max altitude. Never even thought about declaring an emergency as I was so busy surviving. The ATC facility was military and offered no help at all, when switched to the next sector they offer none gyro vectors and all was well.
How did being at max gross weight have bearing on losing your vacuum?
 
I think even if a pilot believes he's doing everything right there's always the fear someone will find something he's doing wrong in hindsight. I mean, I find things I did wrong in hindsight so it's not much of a leap to think an over-zealous official might.

That said if there's any doubt in your mind as to the safe outcome of the flight just declare, it will probably be fine.

I've never declared, had 2 alternator failures and 1 vacuum pump failure all in very good VFR conditions. I advised ATC in all cases and either completed the flight or turned around and went home but there was no doubt as to the outcome of the flight. Had the same things happened in IMC I'd absolutely have declared. Some of this is situational.
 
Interesting post. I got my first license in the UK back in 1971 and had to take a course for my Radio Telephony Operators License. The test was in a VC-10 simulator. Very very realistic. I had to do a number of Pan calls as well as Mayday calls. They were very clear about the distinction between a Pan and a Mayday. Pan should probably be used more in the US as it is in other countries.
My only emergency was years ago when I lost vac at gross weight and in the scud, I was at max altitude. Never even thought about declaring an emergency as I was so busy surviving. The ATC facility was military and offered no help at all, when switched to the next sector they offer none gyro vectors and all was well.
Ha! Here's my story about me and the Pan.

I was based over in Europe flying 757s for my US airline. We were flying the approach one night into BHX/EGBB when we got an alert that our trailing edge flaps were not extending normally when we tried to configure for landing. We went around and told tower we had a flap problem and we needed vectors around the box maybe once or twice to get everything sorted. It was a typical BHX evening with rain and gusty crosswinds. We were running our checklists for the flap problem, getting landing data to make sure we could land with the winds, wet runway and reduced flap setting and increased Vref. While we were in the middle of all that, tower calls us and asks if we wanted to declare a Mayday or a Pan.

Now... I know the difference between the two of those terms while I'm sitting here at zero knots and one G, but at that moment, I didn't have the brain capacity to suss out what each of those meant, so in my attempt to offload any thinking I may have to do, I just told tower, "gimme the one that is the least dramatic." He came back and told me "that would be a Pan..."

"Great, make me a Pan."

I'll never again forget the difference between those two things ever again.
 
I think even if a pilot believes he's doing everything right there's always the fear someone will find something he's doing wrong in hindsight. I mean, I find things I did wrong in hindsight so it's not much of a leap to think an over-zealous official might....
I deal with that theoretical possibility by reminding myself that my goal is to live long enough to attend the hearing.
 
This is a bad example if you're trying to make the point about not declaring.

Initially there was no safety of flight issue. The pilots, aircraft, and flight crew were perfectly fine. You don't declare an emergency because someone farted in row 22.

When the flight crew got sick, then there was a safety of flight issue and they declared.

Move along, there is nothing to see here.

Oh, unless you want to express and opinion, that nobody cares about....
 
In this particular case it didn't seem like much of an emergency to me. Aircraft is fine, pilots are fine and ATC got them right back with minimal effort. Maybe time for a new FA contract?

Flight attendants aren't onboard just to serve drinks. They are legally required crew for safety reasons. If all of them report sick, I would expect the flight crew to declare an emergency.

Several of our airline pilot members have posted in this thread, but none of them have mentioned the above. I'd like a comment on my opinion from them.
 
Mathew said:
Are you kidding me? You would rather take your chances with the reaper over the hypothetical chance that the FAA is going to come back at everyone that has ever said MAYDAY and deny them their pilot certificate? I guess the sky really is falling all around your part of the world. They would be grounding nearly every pilot with more than a few thousand hours, practically every ATP, CFI, DPE, etc.


Mathew, I have had half a dozen events flying where I could have declared an emergency. In all but one of them, there was nothing that a person outside the aircraft could do that would have changed the outcome.

VFR into un forecast IMC at night needs clearance from other traffic to change altitude out of it, which the FAA does not allow a controller to give you. The controllers work around that rule was to advise me that there was no traffic below me within 50 miles.
While this discussion of what the FAA did not allow proceeded, I continued to fly straight and level for 5 minutes with my windscreen covered with wet snow. With the crucial information, I made a standard rate descent to a warmer altitude. The controller was completely supportive, and I had the necessary skills to keep my aircraft under control, as long as I could get to a safe altitude. I did not have the rating then so could not air file an IFR plan. Declaring would have resulted in him requiring a whole string of information, souls on board, fuel remaining, etc, which I was not interested in supplying... Aviate, Navigate, Communicate were my priorities. I was on flight following, so they knew where I was, and where I was going. They also thanked me for the pirep, as they were not aware that any precipitation was happening in that area, let alone frozen. My flying before acquiring the IR was in the days of weather transmitted by teletype, and there were monster holes in what the briefer's knew.

The one that I should have declared was climbing southbound out of Hagerstown in a Cessna 172, on an IFR flight plan, and finding myself a hundred feet into in a cloud layer of freezing moisture at my assigned initial altitude, which was below my requested altitude. I advised Dulles approach control that I was accumulating ice, and needed a climb to a higher altitude (lower would not work, there is high terrain around there). Climb refused "There is conflicting traffic". Second call, with 1/8 inch on the struts, same answer. Third call, with 1/4 inch, I advised that I would need to declare an emergency if I could not climb NOW, and the climb was approved. 100 feet higher, CAVU existed, and not a single airplane in sight, nor any heading change to remain clear of traffic. I should have declared that emergency, and amended my destination to Dulles.

A visit with the tower chief to fill out that paper work might have been a two edged sword, as the chief determined real time, did that controller need to keep me in icing conditions that were not in my weather briefing just prior to my departure. The descent into Dulles would have certainly added more ice, but they had many more fire trucks and ambulances to sent out along the runway while I landed in priority over the big planes.

Instead, I flew to my destination in conditions that evaporated part of the ice. That controller gave me a cruise descent, I requested a steep descent on the assumption that icing might exist in the cloud layer there too, and he gave me "Pilots discretion descent", and I descended through the layer at maximum FPM, and landed. I did advise my destination that I was landing with ice on the wings, but had verified that the plane was stable at the intended approach speed, but I would land fast. All went well, and the ice melted off the next day.

Declaring an emergency would have had positive influence on that day, for me, at least. The controller may not have relished that outcome.
 
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Now... I know the difference between the two of those terms while I'm sitting here at zero knots and one G, but at that moment, I didn't have the brain capacity to suss out what each of those meant, so in my attempt to offload any thinking I may have to do, I just told tower, "gimme the one that is the least dramatic." He came back and told me "that would be a Pan..."

"Great, make me a Pan."

I'll never again forget the difference between those two things ever again.

That's why IMHO this situation would be a pan pan. Safety of flight not in question, but potential medical issue that may require expedited handling. Can always upgrade that to the dreaded E-word if situations warrant.
 
I had declared 3 emergencies with ATC, never heard a peep from the FAA on 2 and never wrote a sentence on the third.
 
That's why IMHO this situation would be a pan pan. Safety of flight not in question, but potential medical issue that may require expedited handling. Can always upgrade that to the dreaded E-word if situations warrant.

Pan Pan is still the E word. It’s just an urgency and not a distress.
 
I once had a flap motor catch on fire while on a long final at PTK flying a rental 172. After a few seconds of disbelief, I called tower on the radio and told them I had a fire on my wing, most likely from a flap motor (flaps quit working, I noticed the flaps quit working, looked out and saw lots of smoke on my right wing). They immediately responded, "Do you want to declare an emergency?" I suppose I should have without hesitation said "yes", but I didn't. After a pause, I said "no". I wasn't afraid of declaring, I just didn't see how it helped my situation what so ever, and I had my hands full. I landed, turned right to the waiting fire trucks (I think those guys must sit waiting in their trucks, they got out there so fast), and pulled the mixture/switched off the mains.
Part of the problem of declaring, at least to me, is you have to "think about it", and sometimes in an emergency you are task saturated, and you don't have the mental reserve left to make a good decision.
 
I once had a flap motor catch on fire while on a long final at PTK flying a rental 172. After a few seconds of disbelief, I called tower on the radio and told them I had a fire on my wing, most likely from a flap motor (flaps quit working, I noticed the flaps quit working, looked out and saw lots of smoke on my right wing). They immediately responded, "Do you want to declare an emergency?" I suppose I should have without hesitation said "yes", but I didn't. After a pause, I said "no". I wasn't afraid of declaring, I just didn't see how it helped my situation what so ever, and I had my hands full. I landed, turned right to the waiting fire trucks (I think those guys must sit waiting in their trucks, they got out there so fast), and pulled the mixture/switched off the mains.
Part of the problem of declaring, at least to me, is you have to "think about it", and sometimes in an emergency you are task saturated, and you don't have the mental reserve left to make a good decision.

I guess if you're on final, there isn't much advantage. I think it busy airspace, they'll clear a path for you.
 
I would only declare an emergency if priority handling would be helpful. I have declared before, once when I was gliding into a very busy class D with the engine in my Mooney in multiple pieces. The paperwork part is annoying and I had to fight a bit to get the FSDO to return my aircraft logs. But in the end they found that I didn't miss any inspections so an IO-360 coming apart in flight wasn't interesting to them and they shredded their report (literally, I made a FOIA request).
 
I once had a flap motor catch on fire while on a long final at PTK flying a rental 172. After a few seconds of disbelief, I called tower on the radio and told them I had a fire on my wing, most likely from a flap motor (flaps quit working, I noticed the flaps quit working, looked out and saw lots of smoke on my right wing). They immediately responded, "Do you want to declare an emergency?" I suppose I should have without hesitation said "yes", but I didn't. After a pause, I said "no". I wasn't afraid of declaring, I just didn't see how it helped my situation what so ever, and I had my hands full. I landed, turned right to the waiting fire trucks (I think those guys must sit waiting in their trucks, they got out there so fast), and pulled the mixture/switched off the mains.
Part of the problem of declaring, at least to me, is you have to "think about it", and sometimes in an emergency you are task saturated, and you don't have the mental reserve left to make a good decision.
FWIW it’s worth an emergency was declared. That’s why the fire trucks we’re waiting for you. It was an absurd question from the Controller. They did ask you how many people and how much fuel was on board I assume.
 
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Because they are afraid it might draw unnecessary attention towards them, and possibly expose some deficiency or wrong action on the part of the pilot.
Sounds about right. In our club, a guy lost vacuum power/went partial panel while in IFR. Declared an emergency. To me, yeah - no shade on that. That got however "chatted up" a bit by some in the club. So, short of a fire, wing falling off, or a knife fight, I can see the reluctance.

And, the perception of the FAA, IRS, and Human Resources are not your friend.
 
Are you kidding me? You would rather take your chances with the reaper over the hypothetical chance that the FAA is going to come back at everyone that has ever said MAYDAY and deny them their pilot certificate? I guess the sky really is falling all around your part of the world. They would be grounding nearly every pilot with more than a few thousand hours, practically every ATP, CFI, DPE, etc.

Mayday has an entirely different meaning than the e word.
 
Mayday has an entirely different meaning than the e word.
What is the difference?


AND..... instead of declaring emergency, has anyone called out a Pan Pan?
 
Sorta on the same subject but on a tangent, airports that have on field emergency services, part of the decision making on their yearly budget is determined by how many times they get called out. So I have no problem in at least asking to ''roll the trucks''.

Also if the trucks roll for me I will go out and thank the guys and gals for doing their job. That comes from my racing days. I sometimes met those guys too often...
 
That link describes the difference between urgent Pan Pan vs Mayday. But, it doesn't mention "Declaring Emergency". Is there a difference between "Declare Emergency" and "MayDay?

Nope. Same same.
 
Once I had an issue where my ailerons were jammed and I had rudder-only steering. I was about ten miles out from my home field, and I asked for a precautionary landing on the non-active runway that I happened to be lined up with, explaining the situation. They gave it to me, so I felt that it was pointless to declare. If they hadn't, or had changed their minds, it would have been just as easy to declare then. It wasn't pretty, but I got it down without bending anything. And that was pretty much the end of it.
 
That link describes the difference between urgent Pan Pan vs Mayday. But, it doesn't mention "Declaring Emergency". Is there a difference between "Declare Emergency" and "MayDay?
From @Palmpilot in post #31: PanPan is urgency. MayDay is distress. Emergency is distress or urgency. Hence...

Emergency is a superset (is the union) of PanPan and Mayday. PanPan is the complement of MayDay.
 
I guess if you're on final, there isn't much advantage. I think it busy airspace, they'll clear a path for you.
I'd still declare. If nothing else because if something happens and you end up upside down in the grass, those guys in silver suits will be right there to get me out of the airplane as quickly as possible.
 
Pan Pan is still the E word. It’s just an urgency and not a distress.
And (at least in the Air Force) we used "Emergency" and "Precautionary." Precautionary I guess was pretty close to PAN PAN.

Edit: IIRC, an "Emergency" and a "Precautionary" would give you different levels of response at a AFB. Less fire trucks, etc., for a "Precautionary."
 
What is the difference?


AND..... instead of declaring emergency, has anyone called out a Pan Pan?
I have (see post 47 above).

TLDR: flap problem on approach. Went around and declared a PAN PAN. But, I was in Europe where that's more common terminology.
 
And (at least in the Air Force) we used "Emergency" and "Precautionary." Precautionary I guess was pretty close to PAN PAN.

Edit: IIRC, an "Emergency" and a "Precautionary" would give you different levels of response at a AFB. Less fire trucks, etc., for a "Precautionary."

We used “Precautionary Landing” in the Army or “PL.” Problem is, while you can find the definition of precautionary landing in some aviation literature, it’s not standardized on the ATC side. It’s mostly a military thing.

For instance, I heard an Apache in Afghanistan tell tower they were RTB for a PL. Tower responded “Attack 11, I have no idea what that is. Are you an emergency or not?” That’s how they think. The controllers manual doesn’t go into precautionary landings other than SFOs. They’re not even in the emergency section. They want to hear either “Pan Pan” or “mayday.” Personally, I worked maybe a half a dozen emergencies when I did ATC and none of them used either term. They simply declared an emergency or I declared it for them.
 
What is the difference?


AND..... instead of declaring emergency, has anyone called out a Pan Pan?
I heard someone do it at Palo Alto Airport once. I don't remember what the reason was.
 
New question, who here has declared an emergency? If you have not, how would you know if there is any paperwork or investigations involved after declaring?
I have multiple times. No biggie.

Tim

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