Color blind or not?

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V1ROTATE

Filing Flight Plan
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V1ROTATE
I set out to earn my PPL in 2009. It got put on the back burner due to LIFE. I'm now 62. When I tested for my last medical card I failed those Ishihara color plates. I get about 3 or 4 and that's it. I can point out colors all day or night without any trouble. I can also distinguish all classes of airspace on a sectional day or night. I've also been a truck driver since the 80's and have never been diagnosed as color blind. Are these plates really an accurate assessment and is this going to cause me a problem?
 
I failed the plate test when I took an Air Force flight physical in the early '00s. Passed a Navy flight physical with a different color vision test in the late '00s. If I'm given the plate test, I'll fail it every single time with about the same score as you. Thankfully, the FAA accepts about 10 different alternative color vision test. So no, it likely won't be a deal breaker.
 
My first few 3rd class medicals, I barely passed the Ishihara plate test. Thereafter I failed, and no longer bother. Like you, I can distinguish colors with no problem and if the test was to point to a color in a magazine, in a room, on a paint chip, or a light, I'd have no problem. The problem is some of the plates test your ability to distinguish slightly different shades. My problem is distinguishing barely red from barely green.

For me, I really didn't care about the nighttime flying restriction. I never liked it--even during training--and never wanted to take a nighttime flight after.

Try reading the plates outside under natural light. That was the light they were designed under. Fluorescents and now LEDs can have color profiles affecting your perception.
 
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Copied and pasted from another thread:

I made it to high school never suspecting I had a color vision deficiency.

Then a biology textbook was handed out. I flipped through it and came to a page that had an illustration that had colored dots clearly spelling out "ONION".

I read the caption. It said, roughly: "This is an example of the Ishihara test for color vision. Those with normal vision will see the word "COLOR". Those with a red/green deficiency will see the word "ONION". Those with total color blindness will see nothing at all."

I thought it had to be a mistake, but showing it to others, they clearly saw "COLOR". They saw a "C" as the first letter, where my eyes apparently jumbled red and green dots in close proximity to close the "O" in "ONION". And so on.

It's weird, because to me bright red and bright green are as bright and colorful and different as I can imagine. But I guess I must concede that others see them more vividly or distinct or something.

Just my cross to bear, I suppose!

Anyway, flew with the Miami GADO and correctly identified light gun signals from Opa Locka tower. On the basis of that I received a Statement of Demonstrated Ability which allowed me to get my Commercial certificate.
 
As others have noted, there are alternative tests, including the practical on the flight line and real lights. But conditions of testing are important, particularly lighting on the pages as well as the age of the book. Of course, the real question is does it matter at our age (I'm 68)? I'm not flying commercial, striking for the airlines, or such. Night flying is past my bedtime.

As an alternative, there are guides to the Ishirara test on-line. There are, the last I checked, two books. One much shorter than the other. Memorize the page number and the correct answer.
 
Most (not all) men are a bit color deficient. I have had the waiver for many years. Going through the process, I tried to learn a bit about it. Matching paint was the first give away when i was young and worked in a paint store. The women could match paint easily, and I often could not. after the waiver, I started to watch other pilots I was flying with. Testing when they would see the runway lights and such. Often pilots without the issue would pick up the lights sooner. Any colored lights. Over the years, I have noticed that I tend to favor brighter colors than my wife does. Anyway, getting waiver was not a big deal. However, i had to do it for more subsequent licenses. So I did one test for my Commercial, and then they wanted another test for my ATP. Even though I held a fist class for some time before the ATP. Even the FAA examiner questioned why I was doing the test again, different test but still doing it again. Sometimes its just easier to to accept the abuse and move on. So I just did the test again.
 
The ishahara dot plates are the most difficult test to pass, expeciaily in poor or incorrect lighting. Your options are to find a AME that has some of the alternative tests (not easy) or as others have mentioned obtain a SODA through the FAA. Note that if you fail the test with the FAA, your night flying restriction will be permanent so be sure you can pass it before attempting it. One other option people seem to be debating is to to go Basic Med and self certify that you can see colors well enough to fly at night.
 
Oldmanb777 said:
Over the years, I have noticed that I tend to favor brighter colors than my wife does.
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Same here*.

My ex loved the British Racing Green of her Jaguar XJ6. For me, it was always kind of meh. Our Honda Clarity is Misty Forest Green, which is apparently also lovely but is similarly meh to me. In any case, I prefer what I call “Jelly Bean” colors that you call “brighter”.

You want green? This was the Mazda RX3 wagon I owned when I made my move to Miami:

51248657771_fe2e02a3ab_z.jpg


Which I now affectionately call “Puke Green”!


*Except my wife, not yours.
 
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I like the bike much better than the car..............
 
THe key is to get an AME with a clue. Dr. Bruce for example keeps several different plates in good condition and shows them to applicants under natural illumination to give them the optimal situation to pass the test normally. He also knows well all the alternate things the FAA will accept.
 
I had an RX3, though it was red. It had a Wankel with a two-stage carb. Pedal to the floor and that sucker screamed!
 
V1ROTATE said:
I set out to earn my PPL in 2009. It got put on the back burner due to LIFE. I'm now 62. When I tested for my last medical card I failed those Ishihara color plates. I get about 3 or 4 and that's it. I can point out colors all day or night without any trouble. I can also distinguish all classes of airspace on a sectional day or night. I've also been a truck driver since the 80's and have never been diagnosed as color blind. Are these plates really an accurate assessment and is this going to cause me a problem?
Click to expand...

Same boat but I am currently in my late 40s. I would say I am marginally color blind (depending on the test), but have no problem reading charts, or seeing beacons with color. My first time I took the test (and borderline failed, but the AME let it slide), his Ishihara cards were 1000 years old and faded, which was arguably bullxxxx.
Thereafter, I *purchased* my own super complete set of Ishihara cards and can now study them prior to the test. I pass every time now. They are available on eBay, maybe amazon. My wife thinks it is hilarious and like "studying for a pregnancy test"

Anyway, my newest AME (guy in SF) , and my last one, have also stopped using Ishihara, and use a little machine I look into, and see like a colored E in different directions, and I pass it every time now. To know what AMEs do, I guess you need to try all the ones in your area. If an AME used crappy old Ishihara plates, that would be a deal breaker.

I still "practice" with my own Ishihara plates before every medical though.
=mxasf=
 
Marc,

I am in the same situation. What is the name of the AME in SF that you used?
 
I failed the test as well. My plan once I get my PPL done(checkride tuesday) is to start looking at other AMEs in my area and go in on a "consultation" basis and find one that understands the challenge with the plates, and understands and can give the other options as well. I'm not terribly concerned with getting the restriction removed, but, I'm getting my license for traveling with my wife, and would be nice to have the option to come home in the evening.
 
Oldmanb777 said:
Most (not all) men are a bit color deficient.
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Actually most males have normal color vision, just the same as virtually all females.

But a fair bit, about 6% of males, have the most common heritable red-green color deficiencies, that can be both red blind as well as red/green confusion types. Females can also have the same defect, but they need two bad X chromosomes for that, so it only occurs about 0.5% of the time -- typically they are just carriers. If you are a color blind male, then you will have a maternal uncle/grandfather with the same problem.

This classic color deficiency is not ALL/NONE, but has variable expressivity. The City University color plate test has graded plates which allows for assessing that. The (full) Farnsworth-Munsell 100 hue test is useful for that too.

There are other types of less common non-progressive congenital color defects as well, and there are acquired and progressive color deficiencies that occur with disease, the latter always require a good workup.

* Orest
 
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I have a night flying restriction on my medical and I can see colors just fine. The Ishihara plates I miss test one's ability to see barely green from barely red. Point to colors in a magazine, out in the world, Christmas lights, stop lights, dashboard lights, panel lights, PAPIs, VASIs, etcetera ad infinitum, and I'm fine. I could have easily passed the demonstrated ability light test, but I never cared enough.

The third class medical/BasicMed should really use the magazine test for color vision. Or plates like the DMV flashcards for stoplights.
 
Domenick said:
....The third class medical/BasicMed should really use the magazine test for color vision. Or plates like the DMV flashcards for stoplights.
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Of course "color blind" is a poor choice of phrase, it is really "color vision deficient", with quite a range of possible levels of impact on real world tasks, from minimal to major.

And sure, testing to task, with similarly saturated color plates or lights would be more accurate. You would need to establish a new standard, and there is a lot of inertia that goes along with that. But, it could be done, and it does impact a lot of pilots.

In Canada once you became diabetic, you were washed up as a pilot, and your medical was pulled. Then someone launched a human rights complaint, indicating that the measure was arbitrary. It took a long time, and a lot of effort, but now Transport Canada will allow you fly with even insulin dependent diabetes using a number of appropriate (and doable) steps and safeguards to reduce the chances of sudden incapacitation. That includes commerical and ATPs as well, as long as they had their licence before they had the disease.

* Orest
 
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I just refreshed my medical on Wednesday, and the doc used a genuine Farnsworth Lantern, circa 1950. I easily passed.

The dot-plates are a setup for me, and snag me every time.
 
Surprised anyone still has a working lantern. Last time I saw one was around 2010.
 
My dad and my sister are both color blind. It's rare for women to have it and surprised it missed me. Dad got an early version of the glasses and didn't help. But just assumed they were a cheap early version. Glad I didn't spring for them for christmas
 
There is "color-blindness" and there is "color-weakness." The Ishahara Test is about the worst test to quantify color-weakness as it is designed to detect very slight color deficits. As such, it exaggerates the deficit. I can't pass the Ishahara test due to a slight red-green deficit, but have no trouble with street lights, airport beacons, Christmas lights, or any normal day to day perception.

I firmly believe the 3rd class medical should ditch the Ishahara for a "magazine test." The doc grabs a magazine, points to various colors, and asks what they are. If you get them right, you're good to go.
 
I was able to get into an Air Force clinic a few years ago that offered one of the new color contrast tests and was really impressed with it, much more fidelity and it gives you a percentage of each color. I was borderline passing on green but fine on everything else. Wish that test would have been available when I was at USAFA instead of just the plate test.
 
When we have our VFD physicals they have a box full of paper strips and ask you to pull out green, then red, then yellow.

There was on plate I struggled with on the AME test but eventually got it in more natural light.
 
Domenick said:
I firmly believe the 3rd class medical should ditch the Ishahara for a "magazine test." The doc grabs a magazine, points to various colors, and asks what they are. If you get them right, you're good to go.
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How about a "av chart test", ensuring you can discern important distinctions - maybe throw in a vasi or other airport lighting - make it practical.
 
Slightly surprised that with all the ADA requirements we have, there is little accommodation for color vision deficiency in most of our lives including aviation. Most don't realize that to aid the typical red-green deficient pilot, the changes in coloration of various things would be small - but they would make the ability to accurately discern much easier.
 
I have trouble with all red, green, yellow, amber lights. On the road, I need to be close to tell the difference. Blinking yellow and blinking red are tough until I get close.
Also, I have good days and bad days - doesn’t make sense to me.
I stay away from night flight to uncontrolled airports that I am not familiar with. I also just load an approach to help with glide slope wherever I am at night. Two color PAPIs are ok - I know one color is white at least. I can’t be trusted with those old three color ones. Like all of flying- know your limits.
 
1) very few people have perfect color vision(or perfect pitch if one compares vision with hearing frequency). I’ve never failed a screening color vision test, but doubt if I could pass a more demanding complete test). Passing a Ishihara or any of these condensed screening tests does not mean you have perfect color vision.
2) these are screening tests to weed out the most color deficient pilots. If you don’t pass, take the FAA practical tests. The practical tests, like traffic lights have red that bleeds a little yellow, yellow that bleeds a little red, and green that bleeds a little blue, so most pilots with a red green deficiency can pass the practical tests.
3) even though I have never failed a color vision, as I get older and develop cataracts or macular degeneration, I might not pass. Any person that has had cataract surgery will comment how bright the colors become after surgery.
4) if you can’t pass the practical test the FAA provides, you should not be flying at night.
 
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