Student pilot: 21 year old DUI, sober for 19 years, active in recovery

@allPrimes how did it go today (asking for when you're finished)

Thanks for asking. Intellectually stimulating, to say the least. More waiting, of course, but the TL;DR is that ultimately, he saw only good things in the testing.

In all, the testing took a little over 6 hours (not including a break for lunch), measuring a ton of stuff, many tests that must measure something relevant to cognition but I wasn't privvy to what all of them did measure. Others measured basic math and concentration (word problems, timed, no pencil and paper allowed), some measured concentration and reaction time (when the letter flashes momentarily on the black screen, click the space bar, but NOT when the letter is an "X"; close to 15 minutes of this, too!), motor skills (place your hand on the board and click the clicker as many time as possible in 10 seconds. Again. Again. Rest for 30 seconds. Again. Again. Repeat with your left hand.), vocabulary. Lots of stuff. As others have written elsewhere, if there weren't so much riding on it (for me, the realization of a life-long dream, for others a career), it would have actually been fun.

Playing with blocks. Matching cards whose matching logic changes periodically. Identify what some pictures were. Identify what makes two words the same. Lots of interesting and frankly, mentally challenging tasks. My favorite, though, was doc reads a list of 20 or so random words. Which ones do you remember? They read the same list again. Which ones do you remember? They read it a third time. Which ones do you remember? Now they read a new list of 20 words. Which words do you remember from the new list but tell them no words from the first list. Now tell them which words you remember from first list but none from the second.

There was also some symbol coding. Numbers 1-6 all have a random symbol associated with each. There are pages and pages of numbers and you have to match the correct symbol to the correct number. Do as many as you can in some time limit. One of the more challenging I found was listen to a recorded voice say a number followed by a second number. Add the two together and tell the doc. Recorded voice says another number. The numbers don't slow down. Add that to the second number and tell the doc. Not a running total but a + b = i, then b + c = j then c + d = k...n + nx. Damn hard. First round of that was at one speed and the second round was about twice as fast.

The Cogsceen AE had some similar tests to the manually-administered tests and some that were completely different and some that tested "task saturation" (i.e., keep a thing centered with your non-dominant hand while also identifying if the two alphanumeric strings are the same or different with your right hand, and more). The suite of 13 sub-tests was a little over an hour of "GO AS FAST AS YOU CAN BUT MAKE NO MISTAKES." The last part of the day was completion of the 560+ question MMPI battery. Upon completion (because it's computerized, the test is scored automatically), the doc walked in to the office and said matter of factly "it looks like you have problems with authority."

I asked the doc for a post-game analysis. Although he can't write the final report until he gets my medical file from the FAA (which he'll poke people in OKC about; apparently, he has "connections"), he said (to paraphrase) "you were above average in the general population, above average in the age-adjusted population, and above average in the pilot population. I don't see any aeromedically-significant cognitive issues that would prevent the FAA from allowing you to have a medical certificate." That's good! He mentioned that because the FAA only asked me to do this one portion of the HIMS protocol, he thinks it's a good sign that after his report (provided no surprises from my FAA medical record) and after my AME sends in my packet of stuff, that should be all they need to make a decision. He mentioned that only when he sees equivocal results in the cognitive screening does the FAA ask for anything more if they've already only asked for the neuropsych. Given he saw no issues, he's hopeful that they'll have all they need (provided my AME has a similar positive opinion after their exam).

Hooray for me! Now it's just more waiting.
 
Good deal. Hopefully the records get out soon. I've had fast processing; I've had slow processing. All depends on.......... not really sure.

After my HIMS neuropsyh mentioned that he had "connections" in OKC, I had hoped that the records would get out sooner rather than later. That did not, however, prevent me from calling to double check.

I ended up chatting with Connie in the RFS office in Des Moines, WA to check to see whether or not my records had been sent out. She noted that we were in week 5 of them having been in receipt of the request and was able to get in touch via instant message with the records lady responsible for my records. RFS office inquired, OKC lady asked if she needed to put a "rush" order on it, and when I heard that I said to RFS "well, if it were up to me, yes! And I'd send her flowers if I could!" Connie IM'd OKC and said "airman would appreciate that and mentioned that he would send flowers if he could."

The upshot is that Connie said "there's a rush order on getting your records out, considering your P&P is already done and they'll hopefully get them out this week."

I'm hoping for the best but preparing for the "standard" FAA timeline.
 
2020-10-27: Neuropsyhologist just informed me that he received my medical records from the FAA today and will be sending his report to my HIMS AME today. Apparently, the RFS involvement to help get a "rush" on my medical records being processed and sent out by CAMI in OKC worked.
 
2020-11-09: Met with my HIMS AME this AM. After some pleasantries, the first words out of his mouth were "the whole medical certification process with the FAA is just silly." He'll submit my packet to the FAA today and has no idea how long it will take them to review it.

I've done my part! I did the "hurry up." Now it's just the wait. And like Señor Petty once sang, "the waiting is the hardest part."
 
The good news is that yours shouldn't take long to review IMO. It's getting to it in the stack that's the issue......
 
It's getting to it in the stack that's the issue......

2020-11-19: Spoke with Lawrence in the Des Moines, WA, RFS office this morning who let me know that OKC has received my package (I thought it was supposed to have gone to DC, but I'm assuming my HIMS AME knows best) and that yes, OKC is the right place for it to have been sent. It's in the "to be scanned in to my file" queue. That queue is currently scanning in items from 10/28, so about three weeks behind. After scanning, it'll go to someone in the Alcohol and Drug Office in which there are currently 1,700 cases to be reviewed by 3 people and a single doctor.
 
2021-01-02: Lovely. Just received a letter that the FAA has received the reports submitted by my HIMS AME from November. The FAA then asks me, to paraphrase, "engage with a HIMS AME, random UA monitoring, peer support group monitoring" and then, after 3-4 months of the above, resubmit. The letter was CC'd to my original, local, non-HIMS AME.

Seems like there has been a few crossed signals here. I started random UAs (all negative) and having an AA log signed in September, documentation of both having been submitted to the FAA in early-mid November 2020. Why the FAA has 1. asked me to engage with a HIMS AME (from whom they received all of the reports in mid Nov) and 2. starting the UA and AA log sheet (two months of which they've already received) is beyond me. I'm confused by this whole process. Notably, it seems that a lot of people are, including my HIMS AME, who authored this article for the AOPA: https://pilot-protection-services.a...program-for-alcohol-and-drug-dependent-pilots

I've reached out to my HIMS AME for next steps. It seems like the FAA didn't even recognize that he is now my AME, not my local, regular, run-of-the-mill doc I started with.

Regardless, more waiting abounds.
 
Oh boy...... yeah sure sounds like they need to get straight on this. A possible upside of this is that your HIMS AME will likely be communicating directly with the FAA on your behalf to get this cleared up. Maybe the attention will produce a result sooner than it otherwise would have. Wishful thinking, I know.......
 
Years ago, the regional flight surgeon and her pilot advocate helped me decipher the initials at the bottom of the letter so we could call and clear up what was obviously a misread of one of the submitted documents. If your HIMS AME can't awaked Joklahoma City through his normal channels, the RFS may be able to direct him to the person who is making the error.

What was the date on the letter, by the way?
 
Nothing to add here, except in line with what I said before, being a pilot under normal circumstances requires patience and perseverance. You seem to have both covered, it's always darkest before the dawn, keep plugging away.
 
2021-01-02: Lovely. Just received a letter that the FAA has received the reports submitted by my HIMS AME from November. The FAA then asks me, to paraphrase, "engage with a HIMS AME, random UA monitoring, peer support group monitoring" and then, after 3-4 months of the above, resubmit. The letter was CC'd to my original, local, non-HIMS AME.

Seems like there has been a few crossed signals here. I started random UAs (all negative) and having an AA log signed in September, documentation of both having been submitted to the FAA in early-mid November 2020. Why the FAA has 1. asked me to engage with a HIMS AME (from whom they received all of the reports in mid Nov) and 2. starting the UA and AA log sheet (two months of which they've already received) is beyond me. I'm confused by this whole process. Notably, it seems that a lot of people are, including my HIMS AME, who authored this article for the AOPA: https://pilot-protection-services.a...program-for-alcohol-and-drug-dependent-pilots

I've reached out to my HIMS AME for next steps. It seems like the FAA didn't even recognize that he is now my AME, not my local, regular, run-of-the-mill doc I started with.

Regardless, more waiting abounds.
Because the FAA is a bureaucrat POS. Unfortunately they hold they keys to the kingdom regarding airspace for now. Good luck.
 
Years ago, the regional flight surgeon and her pilot advocate helped me decipher the initials at the bottom of the letter so we could call and clear up what was obviously a misread of one of the submitted documents. If your HIMS AME can't awaked Joklahoma City through his normal channels, the RFS may be able to direct him to the person who is making the error.

What was the date on the letter, by the way?

Agreed. I've found that the RFS has been helpful in a number of ways. I'll wait to hear from my HIMS AME for their game plan before I reach out. It's nice knowing there's an additional resource out there.

Date on the letter was 2020-12-22, postmark was 2020-12-28.
 
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2021-01-02: Lovely. Just received a letter that the FAA has received the reports submitted by my HIMS AME from November. The FAA then asks me, to paraphrase, "engage with a HIMS AME, random UA monitoring, peer support group monitoring" and then, after 3-4 months of the above, resubmit. The letter was CC'd to my original, local, non-HIMS AME.
I've reached out to my HIMS AME for next steps. It seems like the FAA didn't even recognize that he is now my AME, not my local, regular, run-of-the-mill doc I started with.

They're requesting things you've already been doing, and not some additional medical documentation or testing. This is good news. Take a breath and hang in there. I suspect this is the FAA's way of telling your HIMS AME that they're ready for him/her to request an SI and issue you if the AME is comfortable that your recovery (not just abstinence) is stable. Your HIMS AME will guide you once you provide him with the letter.

They're CCing the non-HIMS AME because he was the one that performed the medical exam that began this process. Your HIMS AME isn't CC'd because he's not officially involved in the outcome of that medical exam. You can't declare a HIMS AME be involved in your case to prevent people from involving HIMS AMEs in cases they're not interested in taking up.

The HIMS AME you're working with doesn't really become your "official" HIMS AME until they've requested a special issuance on your behalf, performed an exam, and you're issued a medical. After that, your fates are intertwined. The HIMS AME is rated on your compliance and you're subject to oversight and re-issuances at the discretion of the HIMS AME. Up until the granting of an SI and your first completed medical exam you're not really "in" the 3rd class medical equivalent of HIMS (it's really geared toward 2nd and 1st class 121 and 135 guys). Consider it your marriage ceremony.

Sounds like you're good, but just realize that a change of HIMS AME requires approval of the FAS. Advice I will give is to make sure you have a good working relationship with your HIMS AME as you're going to be working together for some time.

Do NOT stop or alter your recovery activities in any way. Continue to document your abstinence and recovery (if it ain't in the medical record it didn't happen). The old joke about the aircraft doesn't fly until the paper work weighs more than the airframe... your obstacles to flight reduce in proportion to the weight of hard documented evidence that you are in sustained remission and abstaining from mood altering substances.
 
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You got that Find a HIMS AME letter because of the dictive that all such cases need be initialed. Had you not done what you have, up through now you would have simply gotten the “denial without encouragement” letter.

in the “ Find a HIMS AME” letter they have laid out the path. Also note: for this issue NO RFS has the chops to do this one. The last one was Dr. Goodman (western Pacific), and he’s now the deputy RFS.

do what the letter sez. You will succeed.
 
They're requesting things you've already been doing, and not some additional medical documentation or testing. This is good news. Take a breath and hang in there. I suspect this is the FAA's way of telling your HIMS AME that they're ready for him/her to request an SI and issue you if the AME is comfortable that your recovery (not just abstinence) is stable. Your HIMS AME will guide you once you provide him with the letter.

do what the letter sez. You will succeed.

This is reassuring. Thanks to both of you.
 
2021-01-21: Heard from HIMS AME the other day. Their words:

The FAA is useless. I'll call Dr. Dumsdorf on Thursday to try to clear up what is going on. Will keep you posted. No changes until we hear back.

Man. This is such a killer. I'm supposed to be flying today--and have been nearly every two weeks to keep skills/knowledge up--but this whole process is just killing my enthusiasm and desire. I'm tempted to just put everything on hold until there's a better idea on timeline. When I'm in the plane or even in the damn hangar talking about systems, I'm all about it but holy smokes; this waiting just ****ing sucks.
 
2021-01-21: Heard from HIMS AME the other day. Their words:



Man. This is such a killer. I'm supposed to be flying today--and have been nearly every two weeks to keep skills/knowledge up--but this whole process is just killing my enthusiasm and desire. I'm tempted to just put everything on hold until there's a better idea on timeline. When I'm in the plane or even in the damn hangar talking about systems, I'm all about it but holy smokes; this waiting just ****ing sucks.

Patience is a virtue. Hang in there.
 
That phone call to the FAA doc may help things. Not all bad news here.
 
Patience is a virtue. Hang in there.

Hang in there, they are testing your commitment. Finish what you start.

That phone call to the FAA doc may help things. Not all bad news here.

I know it's not bad news and I plan on seeing through what I've started, but man, it's so demotivating. I feel like the money I'm spending on flying right now might be better saved and when there is a timeline on when the medical will come through, just blow through the remaining lessons/hours and bang it all out instead of trickling it out.
 
I was in the same boat 1 year ago...ready to start training and couldn’t. I had many days where I questioned if I should continue. It took 7 months from contact with HIMS AME to special issuance. Nothing fun about it and I really feel your pain. Hang in there...it will be worth it in the end.
 
I was in the same boat 1 year ago...ready to start training and couldn’t. I had many days where I questioned if I should continue. It took 7 months from contact with HIMS AME to special issuance. Nothing fun about it and I really feel your pain. Hang in there...it will be worth it in the end.
Depending on the type of school, you can start training, you just can't fly solo, or take practical exams.
 
Depending on the type of school, you can start training, you just can't fly solo, or take practical exams.

depending on your planned path, that may not be a useful option. If you are ok with being a once every couple of weeks flyer, then maybe. But I think you’re largely throwing money away training so infrequently as you are tying up time and money re-learning what you already paid for in a previous lesson.
 
Heard back from the HIMS AME this AM. FAA wants 3 months of meetings with the HIMS AME (that can be conducted via zoom as we are four hours away from each other in best conditions, 5-6hrs during winter driving conditions) and at the end of those 3 months, AME submits necessary reports and the medical should be granted.

All in, if things proceed according to this schedule, maybe I'll have a medical by mid-to-late Spring? Early Summer?

I'm still considering postponing all lessons until closer to the date, simply because I am concerned about just tossing money down the drain for training just to log some hours. Don't get me wrong, I know that general aviation as a "hobby" is a money pit to begin with, but the arguments for waiting on further lessons until medical is on its way or in hand are terribly convincing.
 
On today's AME check-in, doc says (to paraphrase) "we'll do one more of these in March. After that, I'll be able to submit my report detailing your compliance and your SI will be on its way soon thereafter. If you're not interested in anything higher than a 3rd class, you should jump to Basic Med as soon as possible. The new FAS (Northrup) is more down to earth than the last one and that move should easy."

We'll see. Still annoyed by the whole process. Excited to fly on Thursday, though.
 
In a similar situation here: Two DUI's in 2007. Successfully completed a rehab program in 2016.
Approx. Jan of 2019 I reached out to THE doc, and started the process for 3rd class
- I've been peeing in cup once a month since 3/19 - all negative. Started gathering all paperwork we knew they were going to ask for.
- Received first letter back from OKC
- Had to do a psych eval and a cognitive exam (not cheap!)
- Got HIMS and sent my entire packet in.
- Nine months later I get a letter saying they want an additional 3 months of monitoring with AA and aftercare attendance. (which I had already been doing)
- Did what they asked and 3 months later sent the info.

Currently waiting, but not holding my breath.

Look, I've been sober since 3/16, don't crave a drink, yada yada yada....what everyone says here is true: FAA doesn't care. I'm just doing what they ask and hoping for the best outcome. I assumed by now I would at least have had an SI with continued monitoring, but no. It's very frustrating. Especially when I'm unable to get any updates, the crazy wait times, and the exorbitant cost associated thus far. Especially since I've been at this for nearly two years!

Also, I'm sure we all have stories: "but that guy can fly and his offense was way worse". I had that mentality in the beginning, and although true, it doesn't matter. Gotta do what they say. It'll be worth it once that license is in my hand.
 
2021-03-22

HIMS AME let me know this AM that he sent his letter to CAMI requesting my SI. More waiting but perhaps movement soon?
 
2021-05-27

Talked to Lawrence at the RFS office in Des Moines, WA, who let me know that the Drug and Alcohol section has completed their review of my HIMS packet and passed it on to the physician who's now had it in their queue for "about a month" or so. Lawrence seemed to think that I should be hearing something soon. Famous last words, methinks. Regardless, I've had my patience cap on for some time and wearing it longer is really all I can do.
 
Agreed, but to pick a nit. The Germanwings pilot had a 1st class medical so it didn't work there either.
That is a BIG lie. Pure and simple. His American medical was an expired special. He was out of jurisdiction and out of compliance. It worked here in AZ.
 
2021-05-27

Lawrence seemed to think that I should be hearing something soon. Famous last words, methinks. Regardless, I've had my patience cap on for some time and wearing it longer is really all I can do.

2021-06-09

Having patience won't prevent me from calling to see if I can glean anymore information other than "your application is still in review" but that's all Karen at CAMI in OKC could give me this morning, about two weeks after I spoke to Lawrence at the RFS. Would be great if this thing came on or before my birthday later this month, but I'd settle for being given the SI at all!

After learning about the HIMS step-down plan recently, I'm wondering if they'll start me at the most restrictive level or something less onerous. Regardless, I'll be happy whenever it--whatever HIMS level the SI is on--arrives.

Meanwhile, I keep flying every two weeks or so, working on getting better. Instructor seemed to think that once the medical arrives, we could have the remainder of the requirements for PPL done and check ride scheduled within a month.
 
At a meeting last night, a visitor shared that they had "just flown in with the chief pilot of my company and the CEO" which suggested to me that he was a pilot. Maybe. After the meeting, I introduced myself, asked if he was a pilot (yes) and mentioned my issues with obtaining a 3rd class medical. His first response was "did you tell them that you were an alcoholic?" Yes, I was honest. "Well, that was your first mistake. Never tell the FAA ANYTHING." He went on to share some stories about how ****ed the FAA medical process is, how he's met more than a handful of pilots that are mentally falling apart because of alcohol, drugs, or families falling apart that refuse to seek help because they're concerned about their medical.

Ultimately, he suggested I call the local FSDO and ask for help and for insight into why it's taking so long to process a 3rd class medical for whom the applicant has been sober for 20 years now (only sober for 19 years and change when I started the process!) and the single DUI was from 1999. This goes against the advice I've gotten from many folks here and from my HIMS AME, but is it worth reaching out the FSDO? Although all of you are just different versions of just SGOTI (save Drs. Bruce and Lou) and my AME says all I can do is be patient, is calling the FSDO to ask for help worth trying?

Notably, today is a Thursday, which is my self-designated weekly phone call to OKC to get the by-now-familiar-response "your application is still in review."
 
In my opinion it is worth talking to as many people as possible about your "process". FSDO, RFS, Congressman. Whoever will listen. That old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" may not be as relevant in OKC world, but I have to imagine it helps some. I really feel for you and your situation. It is ridiculous that it takes so long.
 
In my opinion it is worth talking to as many people as possible about your "process". FSDO, RFS, Congressman. Whoever will listen. That old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" may not be as relevant in OKC world, but I have to imagine it helps some. I really feel for you and your situation. It is ridiculous that it takes so long.
I would classify it as not only ridiculous, but also an injustice.

"Justice delayed is justice denied."

Whether taking the actions you suggest will help or hurt his chances is, however, outside any area of expertise I might have, and definitely beyond the capabilities of my (rather defective) crystal ball.
 
Bah. I feel I'm getting jerked around. Told myself a few months ago, after talking with the RFS, that I'd call OKC once/week on Thursdays. Today, I spoke with David (with DJW, donchaknow) who told me (to paraphrase) "well, it looks like they're gettin' you finished up here pretty soon" to which I replied "this is the first time anyone has said anything to me other than you're still in review in months. How can you tell that I'm close, David?"

"Well, there sure are a bunch of notes in here and it all looks pretty positive to me, so it looks to me like you should be gettin' it soon. I'd check back next week. Hopefully you'll be hearing something then."

Which, to my hope-for-the-best-expect-the-worst thinking suggests "you're still in review." A boy can dream though, can't he?
 
HOLY SCHNEIKES.

I check the "airman registry" from time to time to see if that has been updated with any sort of medical information before I may receive it in the mail (and before I hear about it on my weekly call to OKC). Normally I see "No medical information available" or something like that. Today, however, I see this:

upload_2021-7-20_8-6-42.png


Presumably, it's an SI with some hoops, but woah. This is a big step! Might have to call CAMI today to see if they can fax me whatever it is they're sending.

EXCITING.

EDIT after talking with CAMI this AM:
Last week, David told me that there was something coming soon. Today I see the Medical Information has been updated on the airman registry. This AM I called OKC to ask about the status of my application in the hopes that they'd say "you're all done" and I could get it faxed but the operator this morning just said "looks like you're in review." When I pressed for more she said "looks like they're working on something so maybe check back next week." Ugh. Another week waiting after 53.5 weeks already won't be that bad, will it? Will it?
 
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Congrats, and thanks for keeping this thread updated. It has illustrated both your patience and the problems at the FAA. There's no way a case like yours should ever have taken this long.........

But again, CONGRATS! (.....almost)
 
OH SNAP.

Spoke with Cindy in OKC just now who said my SI and 3rd class went out in the mail TODAY. She's also faxing them to me. (EDIT: I now have them in hand. SWEET!) SI is valid through 2026-06-30 and is good for 3rd class certificates that are time-limited to no more than 6 months.

For those keeping score, I first applied for my medical on 7/6/20 and was issued a 3rd class medical with SI on 7/23/21. That works out to 1.04 years or 54.4 weeks or 382 days. In the interim, I learned (among many other things not included here):
  • from a PhD Neuropsychologist
    • that I am sane and have "high" or "extremely high" scores in all neurocog test parameters
    • that I am now "officially" diagnosed as having "F10.20 Alcohol Use Disorder, Severe, In sustained remission, for approximately 20 years"
  • from UA testing that indeed, I am alcohol and drug free
  • from a practicing HIMS AME that the FAA medical process is "broken"
Not gonna lie: for some reason, things suddenly feel a hell of a lot more "real" now. Like, I have really start studying for my written and I have a LOT of work to do before I can even consider a check ride. All fun things, though.

Thanks to everyone on this board who helped me get through the disheartening times during the past year and especially to @bbchien for his expertise and thoughts on (and off) this board.

Perseverance, persistence, and patience pays off. It helped to have been lugging around A TON of documentation related to my original DUI arrest and initial forays into 12-step recovery for the last 21 years and 20 years, respectively.
 
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