denverpilot
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Found your next Toad, Ted. LOL.
Thinking about a Bus/RV
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Ted
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iFlyNothing
@denverpilot NO
denverpilot
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C’mon. LS swap it! LOL.
MIFlyer
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denverpilot
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Ted
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flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Here's the best thing that's ever been done with a Reliant Robin, and I bet Ted would rather do this with one than have it as a toad:
Though, I must admit that I got a laugh out of this:
Ted
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Jeremy Clarkson going around and rolling a Reliant Robin more times than I can count is one of the best pieces of entertainment out there.
When I was a kid, there was a dry cleaner near mom's apartment that had a 3-wheeled something or another, don't think it was a Reliant Robin. The benefit was that it was as long as most cars are wide, so it could be parked in front of the shop perpendicular to the rest of the cars on the street. That was an asset.
When I was a kid, there was a dry cleaner near mom's apartment that had a 3-wheeled something or another, don't think it was a Reliant Robin. The benefit was that it was as long as most cars are wide, so it could be parked in front of the shop perpendicular to the rest of the cars on the street. That was an asset.
MIFlyer
Pattern Altitude
I've seen the smart cars parked that way too when people used to park in cities. Seems like a great use of space, as long as the street isn't so busy that people coming in/out of spots clogs them up.
I wish that all the electric cars were able to be flat towed. its seems like it would be technically easy, so I'm surprised none have done it, even if hte market is small. I think a decent number of jeep and CRV sales are to motorhome folks
Ted
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As much as I'm not a fan of electric cars, I would agree that would make a lot of sense. You could also work some interesting integration on regenerative braking for the car to charge itself. I don't see why it wouldn't work, but the computer would have issues.
denverpilot
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Mentioned in the other video posted and also how they did it.
Should watch it.
Everskyward
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I have been watching a series on AppleTV+ called 'Long Way Up". Don't ask me why. I have a free subscription for a year and this was just about the only thing that seemed remotely interesting to me. Anyway, these two guys are riding electric (!!??) Harleys from Ushuaia, Argentina to Los Angeles. Since I've been to Ushuaia, I viewed the first episode and got interested. Their support vehicles were a couple of vehicles made by Rivian https://rivian.com. Even though Rivian (or was it Harley?) arranged for a number of charging stations along the route, they often had problems with running out of charge. They show the vehicles being flat towed by each other, and by other trucks in order to charge them. The number one problem seems to be keeping the motorcycles and vehicles charged. Of course it's an extremely remote route and even where there is electricity, there occasionally doesn't seem to be enough output to charge. So far, not the greatest promotion for electric vehicles, but hey, it's an adventure!
Ted
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That does sound like a neat show, and I'm sure they'd have lots of issues along the way. The electric Harley is something they've been pushing now for a few years (I think) but I've never seen one outside of a dealer showroom. Now that we're back into riding our motorcycles more and we go to Harley dealers fairly regularly I keep on thinking about asking to test ride it, more than anything because I'm curious as to what I'd think of the experience. Taking it on a trip like that seems like asking for trouble. I remember around 20 years ago Car & Driver did a road trip in a CNG powered car, I want to say a Volvo. As I recall they tried driving it from coast to coast only on CNG. It required a lot of planning and very careful attention to fuel economy. Basically it was doable but very challenging and you were limited on your route. Electric has that weird combination of theoretically being available virtually anywhere without a dedicated station (unlike CNG) but extremely short range and you still need a place to plug in.
What makes it interesting for an RV is the fact that an RV (at least one like ours) essentially is a mobile charging station. I suppose just like with normal electric vs. gas vehicle use cases a lot of it depends on how many miles you intend to drive in a day.
Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman; fourth series they’ve done on motorcycle adventure tourism.
Long Way Round: London to NYC by way of Mongolia and Alaska on R1200GS Adventures
Long Way Down: Scotland to South Africa
Race to Dakar: Charlie races one of the last Dakar events in Africa
Long Way Up: The Americas from south to north on electric Harleys.
I own the first three on DVD and am about to order Up on apple TV+.
denverpilot
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The Harley thing was originally called project livewire. Friend of mine travelled with the show taking care of the bikes. Celebrities riding them and such.
They closed it down and transitioned to a different design after the lengthy road show led to nearly zero interest or sales. He left / contract expired around then.
Said it was a fun tour but clearly when the original was done they were trying to interest traditional Harley riders with that first bike and nobody really was.
Pivot to a cheaper bike and trying to go after a younger crowd was their — kinda — plan. He wasn’t sure they really had one.
They closed it down and transitioned to a different design after the lengthy road show led to nearly zero interest or sales. He left / contract expired around then.
Said it was a fun tour but clearly when the original was done they were trying to interest traditional Harley riders with that first bike and nobody really was.
Pivot to a cheaper bike and trying to go after a younger crowd was their — kinda — plan. He wasn’t sure they really had one.
SoonerAviator
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Yeah well, marketing the Livewire at a $29K starting point was their first mistake, especially when a couple of other electric bike makers beat them to market at half the cost. That kind of stuff is why Harley is dying a slow death.
flyingcheesehead
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I would think you could do it if you turned them on and put them in "neutral"... However, EVs also tend to be used to experiment with new features and so, for example, if you want to put a Tesla through one of those car washes that pulls it along by a wheel, you have to have someone ride in it or it'll think it's parked and it'll put itself in Park and lock the doors.
These are all edge cases, and I'm sure they'll be addressed as EVs get more popular. Heck, if you can catch Elon Musk at just the right time on Twitter, your favorite feature might end up in your Tesla next month.
Yeah, just thinking about it here the possibilities are... Interesting.
If you put one in D or L and just towed it, I would think it'd recharge. Most or all already have software that will limit the regenerative braking as the battery gets full.
I think probably the reason it's not a big priority for a company like Tesla or Rivian is that they're trying to make things cleaner, and towing a car behind a diesel or gas burner to charge it is going to make it dirtier than a gas car. You can already use the mobile chargers to plug into the 14-50 outlets that are common at RV parks, so it's really only necessary if you're into boondocking pretty much all the time.
Interesting!
Are you saying they're towing one Rivian with another? No wonder they're having trouble! The one being towed is only going to regenerate maybe half to 2/3 of what the other one is burning to pull it.
Also, I would imagine that the electrical infrastructure in a lot of those places isn't going to do very well for charging on a trip like that. Rivian advertises "up to 400 miles" of range, but they're likely getting somewhere about 3 miles per kWh. If they're traveling 300 miles in a day and charging for 10 hours overnight, that means they need about 10 kW of power, which is a bit over 40 amps at 240VAC. Each.
The bikes are probably a lot easier to charge with less infrastructure.
He's been asking me about buying an electric car a lot recently.
The thing with Harley is that they're not used to having competition. Pretty much, in their traditional business model, if you're gonna buy a Harley, you're gonna buy a Harley, and if you're not, you're not. If you're in the "Gonna buy" crowd, you like the image, you don't really care about the price, you just want a bike that looks and especially sounds a certain way.
Now, you're going from the classic Harley sound to something totally silent. You're moving far away from the image. You're marketing to someone who is completely unlike the traditional Harley buyer, and you have competition.
Yeah, that didn't go well. And now HD is "refocusing on their core business", aka walking away with their tail between their legs after laying off a bunch of people. That does not bode well for them, long term. They probably should have sold them under a different brand, probably at different dealers and online.
Everskyward
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At one point they pulled one Rivian with another, but I think it was only in order to get to the next place with electricity. One Rivian had more charge left than the other. They were also towed by a semi, at one point. To me, it seemed as if the bikes were more of a problem than the Rivians, as far as charging was concerned, since they had a whole lot less range (+-200 miles?). Also, when they started on their trip, it was winter turning to spring so it was cold, and the cold affected the range and the ability to charge. On the other hand, there was one place where the camera bike, a gas Harley, couldn't fuel up because the gas truck had just arrived at some small town, and there was a huge line of vehicles waiting. The only episodes out now show them traveling from Ushuaia to about Bolivia. They went through Patagonia and the Andes following approximately the Argentina/Chile border. I think they did about 5 border crossings. Lots of emptiness and only a few settlements.
MIFlyer
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Just a POV, but I think that HD's problems are demographic. Outside of Ted and a few others, most younger people aren't into them.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/actually-young-people-really-could-kill-harley-davidson.html I think this will hit Class A motorhomes, airplanes, and muscle cars too
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/25/actually-young-people-really-could-kill-harley-davidson.html I think this will hit Class A motorhomes, airplanes, and muscle cars too
I would think you could do it if you turned them on and put them in "neutral"... However, EVs also tend to be used to experiment with new features and so, for example, if you want to put a Tesla through one of those car washes that pulls it along by a wheel, you have to have someone ride in it or it'll think it's parked and it'll put itself in Park and lock the doors.
These are all edge cases, and I'm sure they'll be addressed as EVs get more popular. Heck, if you can catch Elon Musk at just the right time on Twitter, your favorite feature might end up in your Tesla next month.
Yeah, just thinking about it here the possibilities are... Interesting.
If you put one in D or L and just towed it, I would think it'd recharge. Most or all already have software that will limit the regenerative braking as the battery gets full.
I think probably the reason it's not a big priority for a company like Tesla or Rivian is that they're trying to make things cleaner, and towing a car behind a diesel or gas burner to charge it is going to make it dirtier than a gas car. You can already use the mobile chargers to plug into the 14-50 outlets that are common at RV parks, so it's really only necessary if you're into boondocking pretty much all the time.
Interesting!
Are you saying they're towing one Rivian with another? No wonder they're having trouble! The one being towed is only going to regenerate maybe half to 2/3 of what the other one is burning to pull it.
Also, I would imagine that the electrical infrastructure in a lot of those places isn't going to do very well for charging on a trip like that. Rivian advertises "up to 400 miles" of range, but they're likely getting somewhere about 3 miles per kWh. If they're traveling 300 miles in a day and charging for 10 hours overnight, that means they need about 10 kW of power, which is a bit over 40 amps at 240VAC. Each.
The bikes are probably a lot easier to charge with less infrastructure.
He's been asking me about buying an electric car a lot recently.
The thing with Harley is that they're not used to having competition. Pretty much, in their traditional business model, if you're gonna buy a Harley, you're gonna buy a Harley, and if you're not, you're not. If you're in the "Gonna buy" crowd, you like the image, you don't really care about the price, you just want a bike that looks and especially sounds a certain way.
Now, you're going from the classic Harley sound to something totally silent. You're moving far away from the image. You're marketing to someone who is completely unlike the traditional Harley buyer, and you have competition.
Yeah, that didn't go well. And now HD is "refocusing on their core business", aka walking away with their tail between their legs after laying off a bunch of people. That does not bode well for them, long term. They probably should have sold them under a different brand, probably at different dealers and online.
Charlie talks about the why behind the trip and some of its challenges, including the temperature impact on battery performance in this long form video interview. Forewarned, it is about an hour long but really good insight behind the whole project.
denverpilot
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lol. Came up elsewhere today.
‘Make it Chick Fil A nuggets and you’ve got a deal!’lol. Came up elsewhere today.
Everskyward
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Having seen the first few episodes, that was interesting. The first episode is about the preparation for the trip; getting the bikes and Rivians, etc. But now that I've seen more of the series, I understand it better. I had never heard of either Charley or Ewan before this. In fact, I didn't know that Ewan was an actor until about the third episode where he sees himself on restaurant TV dubbed in Spanish.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
2007 Ford. 180,000 miles. Tires when needed. AC 4 yrs ago. Flush everything periodically. Runs just fine.
Ted
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We know that GA is dying a slow death, but I think there are a lot of factors that play into that - cost and regulation are a big part of it.
The rest of the items you listed, that will be interesting to see. Young people still seem to be interested in motorcycles and camping, but more seem to like to be travel trailers to tow behind a pickup rather than an RV and Jap bikes. I think some of that has to do with the price points. Harleys and Class As are expensive, and so young people that don't have someone able to handle a mechanical project that goes with used ones end up wanting new or newish, and an F-150 is a nice daily driver that can tow a travel trailer that will fit the family, and frankly probably has a better layout for the family anyway. Harleys are just expensive and don't depreciate a ton or super quickly, so similar argument there.
I think that Harley is doing a good job of changing up the styling on some of their models. We go to the local dealers semi regularly. They're always busy and the new lineup I think does a good job of looking modern while maintaining the classic lines that are why people buy Harleys. We'll see if they can pull off a transformation and attract younger buyers.
MIFlyer
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Yeah, these aren't my hopes, just my guess. BUT, some things change. I would have thought exurbs were in trouble due to younger generations' general preference for cramped, rat like living (I mean walkable to coffee shops), but Covid might be resetting that. it's also getting folks to be a lot craftier too, and any learning is good. essentially anything that gets people to learn how the actual physical world works is good.
Ted
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Things also go in cycles. Many of the people I went to high school with have moved outside of NYC because they like the extra space and lower cost of living. I took it to an extreme, of course. It won't surprise me at all if at least one of our kids wants to move to a city.
Tom-D
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I grew up in up state, it is beautiful for a month in May, and a week in Oct.
Southpaw
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Think 2011 was last CRV to be flat towed. Different transmissions in the newer ones.
ITraded a 2010 VW Diesel Jeta Wagon because it had to be towed on dolly.
Should have kept the VW . And bought a cheap jeep to tow.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
While I was in DC I met a lady who had bought a Ford Ranger at the same time that I bought my Nissan truck. My truck had no issues at all. Her Ranger had a litany of malfunctions of multiple systems. I had spent nothing to repair my Nissan, while she had spent thousands.
Everskyward
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I agree that the demographics are wrong for Harley unless they go in a different direction. Many years ago I hung out with quite a few older (than me) Harley enthusiasts. No way they would go for an electric bike. The culture, after all. These were guys of the Easy Rider generation, now in their 70s.
My one friend still rides, but he has had a sidecar for years because of physical limitations. No way would he entertain the thought of an electric bike or vehicle.But the old style Harleys are still around, I hear them on weekends, groups of them, dragging up the hill near me, trying to make a much noise as they can. Impossible on an electric bike.
steingar
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Harleys demographic is aging out. Their current strategy of making themselves a boutique manufacturer and raising prices to chase their market just doesn't make sense. The only think I can imagine is their CEO is trying to get them bought up by someone. Other manufacturers are fairing quite a bit better. Lots of young people will buy smaller less expensive motorbikes. They aren't as profitable, though.
Ted
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That's a big issue for me. Not that I'm trying to make as much noise as I can, but the noise, sound, and vibrations of a real engine are all part of the enjoyment for me. There's been one or two people who've shoved Tesla drvietrains into a Cobra and sure it'll smoke the tires, but then all you hear is the rubber burning without an engine roar to go with it. Doesn't do it for me.
steingar
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Never gave a rat's assay what my bike sounded like ever. I care what it does.
Everskyward
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Same with my friend. I think people feel that way about the throaty sound of warbirds too.
Ted
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Bill
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steingar
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Of course the Ted misses the most obvious solution. Tow a Motorcycle trailer. Turn one of the Harleys into a hack, bring both along. Two bikes, three kids and two riders.
Ted
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We actually had considered that. We did buy a multi-purpose balloon/motorcycle trailer a couple months ago. If you go to my profile and look closely at my avatar you can see it behind the RV. That photo was taken at the Branson KOA, we towed the bikes down for the inaugural RV trip.
I'd actually like a sidecar, but they cost a good bit to buy and everyone who I've talked to who actually has ridden with one says I'll hate how the bike rides after putting it on. Unlike most situations, I imagine they're right. Laurie also not comfortable having one of the kids on back with her and I doubt she ever will be, so that rules out your idea.
So, the motorcycle trailer will be when she and I go someplace without the kids.
Everskyward
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If that guy's goal was to be annoying, he succeeded!
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