Chatting while flying and "fingers"

PeterNSteinmetz

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PeterNSteinmetz
Given the last discussion of the use of fingers frequencies, I decided to figure out exactly what the laws, regulations, and regulatory bodies are which govern the use of 123.4, 123.45, and 122.75 Mhz.

I put up a page with the gory detail at http://steinmetz.org/peter/flying/FingersFreq.html .

The short version is - there are no frequencies for just chatting about the ballgame in the US and use of fingers for items other than flight test could result in an enforcement action by the FCC (but no known cases); 122.75 Mhz can be used for discussing items related to the flight.

Let's keep it civil folks, lest the lock hammer comes down.
 
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Good on ya for manning up and admitting that Jim had a legitimate beef. Bravo.

No question he has a legitimate beef. Sounds like he has had it for some time! The practical question for him is just how to fix it?
 
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I had to go hunting for the other thread, as I clicked on this one about fingers. My CFI, years ago, underlined that fingers is not a chat freq. So, I knew what to expect in Peter's post at the top...I've read most of that before.

But then I read the original thread. It was interesting watching personalities unfold. I've watched a few of these personalities on PoA for a while...I tend to be a lurker and only really post to say something. I also post only about half the stuff I write. It's interesting to come back to a thread and realize that I've got a draft that been sitting there for a while that I forgot about!

Everyone really engaging in the argument was right. And all those folks for were also wrong. There's a tendency to assume that there's a fairly black-and-white right and wrong. And we see our own actions as justified and others at friction with those as wrong. Not true, though. Everyone engaged had deficiencies in the way they were communicating. Everyone also had valid points. (Probably my deficiency in this communication is making it at all...why am I poking my nose in?)

I think about my dad when seeing some of these conversations. He was bright, perhaps brilliant. An EE by trade with specializations in low-noise, high-precision analog work. Lots of instrumentation and the like. He was a consultant, which was an odd choice for him: he was perpetually insecure about finances, so the uncertainty of consulting work made him unrelentingly stressed. He was a consultant because he was difficult to work with for long periods of time. Today, his personality traits would probably slot him somewhere on the spectrum: he was entirely blind to other's perspective or emotions. He wasn't mean, he didn't play politics, he was loyal and upstanding with strong ethics. But he was also stubborn, clueless, and unpleasant to talk to. To make it worse, because he was so intelligent, he was usually absolutely correct about whatever he was on about. I'm sure I take after him.

As pilots and aircraft owners, I believe we probably are more prone to such traits in various ratios. For a number of reasons, we tend toward being leaders used to getting our way. We tend toward being on the intelligent and forward side, used to being correct. We tend toward being quite wealthy and being used to not having to moderate ourselves. While generally valued traits, stick a bunch of people all with these same traits in a room and there will be sparks on occasion.
 
The short version is - there are no frequencies for just chatting about the ballgame and use of fingers for items other than flight test could result in an enforcement action by the FCC (but no known cases).

Coors Silver Bullet airshow performance, Marysville airport, sometime around 2012.

Jim
 
Coors Silver Bullet airshow performance, Marysville airport, sometime around 2012.

Any further hints to a source? A search of the FCC enforcement actions in 2012 and 2013 for something in Ohio (like Marysville OH) or California (like Marysville CA) does not yield actions for Coors or likely cases in individual names. Google searches on various terms related to this only turn up the two prior mentions of this incident here on PoA by weirdjim. No other evidence that I can find.
 
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The fact is, FCC enforcement takes a very long time, even when the culprit is running a fixed base station. Trying to determine who keyed a mic in an airplane would be hard to prove on a one time offense unless the n numbers were used. I can sympathize with Jim..we are both seasoned amateur radio operators. During the crazy times we live in these days....most governmental agencies are practicing social distancing and working from home. I have no good solution to this problem other than try again...sorry.
 
Sounds like anyone who wants to chat in an airplane should get a ham license and pick an available frequency outside the aviation band.


Lots of ham pilots do make ham QSOs from aircraft, but that's not a convenient way to chat with a buddy en route to a fly-in if he's not a ham, also.

What about FRS radios? In the air I think they'd work over a fair distance. I've used them in cars while traveling in caravans of 3 or 4 vehicles and they work decently over a mile or two. Being UHF, they're pretty much LOS radios, but in the air it wouldn't surprise me to get good comms at 10 miles or more, which might be enough if you're just flying somewhere with a friend in a loose "same sky, same day" formation.
 
The fact is, FCC enforcement takes a very long time, even when the culprit is running a fixed base station.

While this is true, I would have expected an enforcement action from 2012 to have shown up by now. There is no good evidence so far that there has been an enforcement action taken by the FCC for the improper use of 123.4 or 123.45 MHz.
 
What about FRS radios? In the air I think they'd work over a fair distance. I've used them in cars while traveling in caravans of 3 or 4 vehicles and they work decently over a mile or two. Being UHF, they're pretty much LOS radios, but in the air it wouldn't surprise me to get good comms at 10 miles or more, which might be enough if you're just flying somewhere with a friend in a loose "same sky, same day" formation.

How would those work with a headset? It seems like the noise in the cockpit would be a deterrent to use without a headset.
 
How would those work with a headset? It seems like the noise in the cockpit would be a deterrent to use without a headset.


The radio audio output can be plugged into your audio panel or the aux jack on your headset. Hold the radio to your mouth to talk. Or maybe Y your headset mic to the FRS mic input and your normal input jack.
 
The radio audio output can be plugged into your audio panel or the aux jack on your headset. Hold the radio to your mouth to talk. Or maybe Y your headset mic to the FRS mic input and your normal input jack.


Oh, and if you don’t have an aux input, you can always wear earphones under your headset ear cups.
 
Powered paragliders commonly use FRS radios, or at least they did when I was active in that end of aviation. Unpowered paragliders and hang gliders often use the 2M ham band, though USHPA has some frequencies that don't require a ham license in the VHF business band as well.
 
Powered paragliders commonly use FRS radios, or at least they did when I was active in that end of aviation. Unpowered paragliders and hang gliders often use the 2M ham band, though USHPA has some frequencies that don't require a ham license in the VHF business band as well.


How well did FRS work?
 
How well did FRS work?
FRS was horrible for Hang Gliding. It might be better now. If you were near a ski area, theme park or state park, it was full of kids and parents asking where each other were and what they wanted for lunch. Then when every one stepped on everyone else, they started complaining about their "private channel" arrgh.. That's when I got my amateur ticket. Lot's of 2M simplex frequencies with no one on them and real equipment. With a simple stripped coax dipole I can reach a car 50 miles away and another glider >100 miles out.
 
How well did FRS work?
Not too bad, as long as you could find a clear channel. We didn't have too much trouble but I can see how it would be a problem in more populated areas. The range wasn't great, though, and of course you have to deal with the wind and 2-stroke noise that makes it a challenge to be understood.
 
Not too bad, as long as you could find a clear channel. We didn't have too much trouble but I can see how it would be a problem in more populated areas. The range wasn't great, though, and of course you have to deal with the wind and 2-stroke noise that makes it a challenge to be understood.

Was this before or after the GMRS/FRS rules merge?
 
When I flew air ambulance, on late night trips I would just flip through the frequencies. Every now and then I would come up on some very interesting conversations....
 
Getting a technician ham license (which is all you'd need to get on the air on 2 meters) is not too hard; there are 'ham in a day' classes in many areas, plus the question pool is public.
The written test (Morse code testing eliminated a number of years ago) is 35 questions, need at least 27 correct.

http://www.arrl.org/licensing-education-training

You can get a cheap hand-held that should do the job (as long as you can interface it to a headset)

https://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV-5R-Dual-Band-136-174-400-480/dp/B0097252UK

Pick a 'simplex' (i.e. not through a repeater) frequency, and you're all set to yack to your buddy, about *almost* anything.

W8QZ
 
Getting a technician ham license (which is all you'd need to get on the air on 2 meters) is not too hard; there are 'ham in a day' classes in many areas, plus the question pool is public.
The written test (Morse code testing eliminated a number of years ago) is 35 questions, need at least 27 correct.

http://www.arrl.org/licensing-education-training

You can get a cheap hand-held that should do the job (as long as you can interface it to a headset)

https://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV-5R-Dual-Band-136-174-400-480/dp/B0097252UK

Pick a 'simplex' (i.e. not through a repeater) frequency, and you're all set to yack to your buddy, about *almost* anything.

W8QZ


Very true, BUT it requires both pilots to be licensed hams. With FRS, you could just hand your non-ham buddy a radio and you’d be set.

73 de AJ4CM.
 
Never understood why anyone would want to chat to a stranger...especially while flying an airplane
 
We've had great chats over the years on 122.75. One memorable one was talking to the Ohio State Police out flying highway patrol (mostly looking for breakdowns and other tieups to report to ground units).
 
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