G5 software updates

chemgeek

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I see version 6.40 of the G5 software was released on December 18, superceding version 6.20, which I have. So, a question:

What are G5 owners doing about software updates? Obviously, it's easy enough for an owner to accomplish without assistance, and I suppose it requires a logbook entry, but what if anything is required to complete the update legally?

It would seem to be overkill to require this to be done at an avionics shop, despite Garmin's protestations otherwise on their software download site. (This is akin to paying a dealer maintenance facility to reprogram your automobile TPMs. Which, BTW, can be WAY more complicated.)

Does the FAA even care?
 
The Garmin site says:


How do I update the software on my G5?
If you have a G5 for Certificated Aircraft, please have its software updated at an avionics shop. Software updates change the functionality on the unit, which for certificated aircraft, require a logbook entry.

I doubt people really follow this? It is really easy to do it yourself.....according to a friend.
 
I see version 6.40 of the G5 software was released on December 18, superceding version 6.20, which I have. So, a question:

What are G5 owners doing about software updates? Obviously, it's easy enough for an owner to accomplish without assistance, and I suppose it requires a logbook entry, but what if anything is required to complete the update legally?

It would seem to be overkill to require this to be done at an avionics shop, despite Garmin's protestations otherwise on their software download site. (This is akin to paying a dealer maintenance facility to reprogram your automobile TPMs. Which, BTW, can be WAY more complicated.)

Does the FAA even care?

Its probably fine, until a G5 blanks out in IMC and the plane crashes. I have no concerns with updating GPS databases, but with a primary flight instrument I am not so sure.
 
I upgraded mine at the avionics shop for 6.2 and 6.4. It takes less than 30 seconds to update it. So simple. The avionics shop didn’t require a logbook update. The software version is on the unit as soon as you power it up. Do you do a logbook version every month for a database update?

With 6.40 I can now see the DALT on the G5 AI. It also allows the GAD 13 temp info to send to the GTN 650 via the 429 bus. I had to select “sensor” in the GTN 650 setting to read the temp.


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Considering that I give the A&P current copies of the software (he’s installed a number of G5), and showed him how to do the upgrade, sorta silly to make me ask them to do the update.

This makes an interesting problem. Since A&Ps can install the G5, what if there’s no avionics shop anywhere nearby?
 
Legally, an A&P has to do the software update and any updates to the AFMS that come with the update.

I've heard that they're frequently done by hangar ferries.
 
Garmin should be issuing service bulletins with step by step instructions to perform these updates just like many other manufacturers do. There shouldn’t be any shooting from the hip, and it should include AFMS updating where applicable.
 
Garmin should be issuing service bulletins with step by step instructions to perform these updates just like many other manufacturers do. There shouldn’t be any shooting from the hip, and it should include AFMS updating where applicable.

Frankly, if you need a service bulletin with step-by-step instructions on updating a G5, you don't have any business updating a G5.
 
Frankly, if you need a service bulletin with step-by-step instructions on updating a G5, you don't have any business updating a G5.

lol! Says a guy that has never updated something and lost every setting and new never before seen options are now on the screen
 
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Garmin should be issuing service bulletins with step by step instructions to perform these updates just like many other manufacturers do. There shouldn’t be any shooting from the hip, and it should include AFMS updating where applicable.
The instructions are on the Garmin website.
 
lol! Says a guy that has never updated something and lost every setting and new never before seen options are now on the screen

The G5 has no "steps" to the update. Plug in the card, turn it on, wait, pop the card out. It's not like a GTN that requires entering a setup mode, updating a config module, etc. The GTN needs a step-by-step because it's not really intuitive. The G5 is idiot proof.
 
Garmin should be issuing service bulletins with step by step instructions to perform these updates just like many other manufacturers do. There shouldn’t be any shooting from the hip, and it should include AFMS updating where applicable.

I made it simple for you:

https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=K10-00280-00

https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=10741#Instruct

The hardest part is determining your OS and dragging a root folder to the SD card. It’s really that simple.


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Doing the update is simple enough for even a moron. The question is what is considered allowable? If an owner does the update and logs it, or gets a friendly A&P to log it, is is considered kosher?

I've done far more complex software updates.
 
Doing the update is simple enough for even a moron. The question is what is considered allowable? If an owner does the update and logs it, or gets a friendly A&P to log it, is is considered kosher?

I've done far more complex software updates.

Legal if an A&P logs it; not legal if an owner logs it.
 
The Garmin site says:


How do I update the software on my G5?
If you have a G5 for Certificated Aircraft, please have its software updated at an avionics shop. Software updates change the functionality on the unit, which for certificated aircraft, require a logbook entry.

I doubt people really follow this? It is really easy to do it yourself.....according to a friend.
Note the word please. Doesn't say the shop is required to do the update. There are actions that the owner can perform and log, such as an oil change, R&R of devices that can be removed from the front (SL30 comes to mind), and so on. Of course the work on the SL30 must be done by an avionics shop....
 
Note the word please. Doesn't say the shop is required to do the update. There are actions that the owner can perform and log, such as an oil change, R&R of devices that can be removed from the front (SL30 comes to mind), and so on. Of course the work on the SL30 must be done by an avionics shop....

But it doesn't really matter what Garmin's website says. Garmin's website can't override the narrow preventive maintenance an owner/pilot is allowed to perform under Part 43. There's no serious argument that a software update like this falls into any category of preventive maintenance. The practical question is whether it's like jaywalking or going 5mph over the speedlimit (illegal, but nobody usually cares).
 
Preventive Maintenance per Part 43 Appendix A:

(30) The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate or supplemental type certificate holder's approved special inspection and preventive maintenance program when accomplished on a primary category aircraft provided:

(i) They are performed by the holder of at least a private pilot certificate issued under part 61 who is the registered owner (including co-owners) of the affected aircraft and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft (1) issued by a school approved under §147.21(e) of this chapter; (2) issued by the holder of the production certificate for that primary category aircraft that has a special training program approved under §21.24 of this subchapter; or (3) issued by another entity that has a course approved by the Administrator; and

(ii) The inspections and maintenance tasks are performed in accordance with instructions contained by the special inspection and preventive maintenance program approved as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type design.


I would think that a software update falls within the maintenance task of the STC.


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Preventive Maintenance per Part 43 Appendix A:

(30) The inspection and maintenance tasks prescribed and specifically identified as preventive maintenance in a primary category aircraft type certificate or supplemental type certificate holder's approved special inspection and preventive maintenance program when accomplished on a primary category aircraft provided:

(i) They are performed by the holder of at least a private pilot certificate issued under part 61 who is the registered owner (including co-owners) of the affected aircraft and who holds a certificate of competency for the affected aircraft (1) issued by a school approved under §147.21(e) of this chapter; (2) issued by the holder of the production certificate for that primary category aircraft that has a special training program approved under §21.24 of this subchapter; or (3) issued by another entity that has a course approved by the Administrator; and

(ii) The inspections and maintenance tasks are performed in accordance with instructions contained by the special inspection and preventive maintenance program approved as part of the aircraft's type design or supplemental type design.


I would think that a software update falls within the maintenance task of the STC.


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But that section is limited to primary category aircraft. A Bonanza, 172, Baron, etc. isn't a primary category aircraft.
 
Interestingly, Dynon distinguishes between "preventative" and "non-preventative" software updates for certified aircraft, and declares that the former are owner-installable. Sounds like the FAA is behind in rule making and clarification (again). So maybe this is not so simple a question.

Seems like a bug fix or incremental software update should be owner-installable, especially if the procedure is simple and self-evident, and would be in the interest of safety.

It's annoying, for example, that my GNS-430 box had to go out to a Garmin dealer to get a simple software update to make it compatible with my G5 install. I'm nowhere near a Garmin dealer, and the updates aren't that difficult to do in the field.
 
So I see an update to the G5 is available.

Was this ever figured out?

Can an owner, with at least a ppl, update the G5 and make a logbook entry?

What about the navigation databases? Link entries?

Thanks!
 
I’m currently getting a G5 hsi added to my existing G5 adi, which I presume requires an update to software to match. I’ll ask the avionics shop whether I can do updates myself in the future.
 
I’m currently getting a G5 hsi added to my existing G5 adi, which I presume requires an update to software to match. I’ll ask the avionics shop whether I can do updates myself in the future.

Ask 4 avionics shops, you'll get 4 different answers :) The avionics' shop's interpretation of the rules carries no more weight than your own.
 
Ask 4 avionics shops, you'll get 4 different answers :) The avionics' shop's interpretation of the rules carries no more weight than your own.
Haha definitely true, however just looking for a data point. I suppose a FSDO may provide the most accurate answer ;)
 
Out of curiousity, I contacted Garmin this week for a more specific citation, either FAR or AC. Here's what I got back:

As per 14 CFR 43 Appendix A,

(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be
designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, and operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.

However, the rep (Supervisor, Aviation Field Service Engineering for Aviation Product Support) also added this comment:

Garmin can only outline from our discussions during these certification processes how we feel these should be handled based off of this data and control the software in this fashion. This is purely at your discretion on how you choose to read it and act upon it. But from a Garmin standpoint since the software is changing the specific function(s) of the unit it needs to be handled by an installer who is approved by the FAA to install it and make the correct/required logbook entries.

My response back was "this is rather wishy-washy, isn't it?"
 
Out of curiousity, I contacted Garmin this week for a more specific citation, either FAR or AC. Here's what I got back:

As per 14 CFR 43 Appendix A,

(31) Removing and replacing self-contained, front instrument panel-mounted navigation and communication devices that employ tray-mounted connectors that connect the unit when the unit is installed into the instrument panel, (excluding automatic flight control systems, transponders, and microwave frequency distance measuring equipment (DME)). The approved unit must be
designed to be readily and repeatedly removed and replaced, and pertinent instructions must be provided. Prior to the unit's intended use, and operational check must be performed in accordance with the applicable sections of part 91 of this chapter.

However, the rep (Supervisor, Aviation Field Service Engineering for Aviation Product Support) also added this comment:

Garmin can only outline from our discussions during these certification processes how we feel these should be handled based off of this data and control the software in this fashion. This is purely at your discretion on how you choose to read it and act upon it. But from a Garmin standpoint since the software is changing the specific function(s) of the unit it needs to be handled by an installer who is approved by the FAA to install it and make the correct/required logbook entries.

My response back was "this is rather wishy-washy, isn't it?"
This is interesting and not entirely clear.

my reading of this seems to indicate you could at a minimum have an A&P sign off on a G5 SW update since an A&P can install a G5 vs other equipment that must be done by a Certified Repair Station.
 
Based on comments here and over on Piper Forum, if it's a stand-alone G5 ASI, why not. But if it talks to anything else (autopilot) or is any other version (such as the HSI that definitely talks to something else) then the Avionics shop needs to do the updates to ensure that communication with other devices works properly.

The A&P installed my G5 (AI) a couple years ago. But the avionics shop did the second G5 (HSI) because it also installed the GPS and other related parts.
 
Based on comments here and over on Piper Forum, if it's a stand-alone G5 ASI, why not. But if it talks to anything else (autopilot) or is any other version (such as the HSI that definitely talks to something else) then the Avionics shop needs to do the updates to ensure that communication with other devices works properly.

The A&P installed my G5 (AI) a couple years ago. But the avionics shop did the second G5 (HSI) because it also installed the GPS and other related parts.
Totally makes sense given the hsi’s multiple external connections
 
FWIW, I had a nearly brand new Garmin pitch servo failure on a long XC. At the next stop I called the Garmin dealer that installed the GFC 500 AP system and dual G5s. The A&P requested that i download the latest G5 software updates and call him back if that didn’t resolve it. As others have said, it’s really easy to do. That didn’t resolve the problem with the servo, it was just a bad servo. But, if the software update is s an A&P only type maintenance item, it seems like Garmin’s dealers aren’t aware of it.
 
Based on comments here and over on Piper Forum, if it's a stand-alone G5 ASI, why not. But if it talks to anything else (autopilot) or is any other version (such as the HSI that definitely talks to something else) then the Avionics shop needs to do the updates to ensure that communication with other devices works properly.

The A&P installed my G5 (AI) a couple years ago. But the avionics shop did the second G5 (HSI) because it also installed the GPS and other related parts.
It takes a few button clicks and less than a minute to verify all the connections are still working.
 
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