Drunk Delta Pilot

sourdough44 said:
Let’s just forget about the legal details a bit, whether the pilot is eventually convicted of anything in the future.

It’s still a MAJOR disruption in one’s career going forward, assuming it can be salvaged. At 37 years old, there was a lot of years ahead for him.
Click to expand...

He made the decision. The blame is on him. I feel zero sympathy.
 
Fallsrider said:
My church works with a men's addictions ministry. Most of us cannot understand what the abuse of alcohol, or drugs, can do to a person. Many of the men come out of the program we support and do very well in life. A few end up back there a second or even third time. They can never seem to overcome that grip on their lives. They will pretty much throw their whole life away to get another drink.
Click to expand...

That's good work, and I'm betting very much appreciated by those affected. On a lighter note... I saw the movie Flight with Denzel Washington.
 
Assuming this guy's career is done in flying, he's going to have a real problem in the regular work force as well.

Not sure I caught whether or not this is a felony (DUI can be a misdemeanor), but if it is, he's got to disclose this to future employers. Depending on what (if any) skills he has aside from flying a plane he may or may not be able to get a job that he can use those skills at and actually make a living. Imagine you are the employer too that has to hear this explanation and how he could have potentially killed a LOT of people, that's pretty hard to ignore.

Completely just blew up his life for a drink..wow.

I used to have a drink or two when I would go out with friends or date night with the wife, nothing excessive. I stopped doing that years ago though because there's just too much at stake. My career, my pilots license, the financial cost, public perception, my son and the list just goes on and on...

If I drink, either someone else is driving or I'm home, that's about it. So sad that some folks can't control themselves.
 
Caramon13 said:
Assuming this guy's career is done in flying, he's going to have a real problem in the regular work force as well.

Not sure I caught whether or not this is a felony (DUI can be a misdemeanor), but if it is, he's got to disclose this to future employers.
Click to expand...
What DUI? He was pulled from an airplane, not a car. And he was released with all charged dropped. I assume that's because short of being able to prove that he actually drove himself to the airport and was intoxicated at that time, they didn't really have anything they could charge him with. Its innocent until proven guilty. 'Your honor I had a bottle of whiskey in the car that I opened and drank in the airport bathroom'. Case dismissed unless they can prove otherwise.
 
3393RP said:
Years ago it was legal in Texas to drink and drive unless you were over the legal limit. When the DOT demanded unification of state DUI laws under the threat of federal funds denial, that went away.
Click to expand...

I remember those days. Now you can't even be drunk and ride a horse in Texas....
 
Caramon13 said:
Assuming this guy's career is done in flying, he's going to have a real problem in the regular work force as well.
Click to expand...

It’s very likely his career in flying is not over. He’s going to be offered a shot at getting clean and complete (emphasis on the word complete) abstinence and a long expensive path back through the HIMS program and his Union will likely back it.

It all depends on his attitude now. Bruce has described the program here before and it’s deadly serious. The list of mandatory stuff is long and includes AA meetings, random screening “we call you pee”, and psych visits on your own dime.

But if he wants to fly, he’ll tow the line.

I met a pilot who talks openly about his pill addiction. He never showed up at a jet high that he knows of but he did suffer from depression as well. He called his union rep who contacted his company and they told him how the deal worked, put him in the program, he found a HIMS doc, and he’s back to flying.

I think he was off work for something like two years. There was some sort of salary assistance with his union, a stipend of sorts.

He flies for a major cargo carrier. His experience was a good one. He got sober and did all of it including whatever ongoing monitoring of his participation in programs is, and he’s eternally grateful for the shot his company and Union gave him.

Some go that route, some can’t hack it and leave the biz. But at a major the size of Delta, this guy will be given one difficult but do-able shot.

By the way the other guy now is on meds for depression and flying and that’s been a major change over my lifetime as well. Was unheard of back in the day. As part of his recovery they realized a certain drug helps him and it can be FAA approved. He’s on it now and describes it like many clinically depressed people do, “The world came back. There’s still blackness out there somewhere but it’s not in my face all day every day.”

He now counsels young pilots in their careers to ASK for help when they damn well know they need it. It’s not the 70s anymore.

Relationship struggles are what triggered his depression and marriages can be hard hit by this traveling biz. He knows and tells the guys and gals going through nasty divorces to know themselves and their attitudes and be involved in their own process if they need help dealing with it.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
What DUI? He was pulled from an airplane, not a car. And he was released with all charged dropped. I assume that's because short of being able to prove that he actually drove himself to the airport and was intoxicated at that time, they didn't really have anything they could charge him with. Its innocent until proven guilty. 'Your honor I had a bottle of whiskey in the car that I opened and drank in the airport bathroom'. Case dismissed unless they can prove otherwise.
Click to expand...

Fair point, missed that :). Guess he was in the plane in a state where you could be "drunk" and unless you turned the key you weren't liable for a DUI eh?

Would this instead be a "FUI" same rules?
 
Caramon13 said:
Fair point, missed that :). Guess he was in the plane in a state where you could be "drunk" and unless you turned the key you weren't liable for a DUI eh?

Would this instead be a "FUI" same rules?
Click to expand...
Maybe. But except for the door, there is no key to turn in transport category aircraft. So that might muck up the whole 'until you turn the key' thing a bit. ;)
 
Juliet Hotel said:
What DUI? He was pulled from an airplane, not a car. And he was released with all charged dropped. I assume that's because short of being able to prove that he actually drove himself to the airport and was intoxicated at that time, they didn't really have anything they could charge him with. Its innocent until proven guilty. 'Your honor I had a bottle of whiskey in the car that I opened and drank in the airport bathroom'. Case dismissed unless they can prove otherwise.
Click to expand...
I didn't see where all charges were dropped, I saw that they hadn't decided what to charge him with yet.
 
Last edited:
MauleSkinner said:
So what regulation shows up on the paperwork when there's an FOM violation?
Click to expand...
Shoot man I don’t know. Never been caught violating the FOM. I like my job. Try pretty hard to keep it so there lots of things that fall into the context of this conversation I don’t have concrete answers. My swag would be to find the regulation that authorizes the FAA to approve the 121 manuals. Probably find it somewhere in part 121. :dunno:
 
This guy’s career has dang sure changed but it is not over. I worked with a fellow that was busted by the FAA for flying single pilot 135 hauling passengers while drunk. He was a functioning alcoholic. When he was running around during the normal days activities he had a BAC over a .1

He told me that when he was ramped after working an inbound flight the inspectors smelled booze on him and had the local cops give him a special straw to blow in... he was twice the legal limit to drive.

Took him 12 years to get his certificates back. Everything was revoked... but he got it back.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Shoot man I don’t know. Never been caught violating the FOM. I like my job. Try pretty hard to keep it so there lots of things that fall into the context of this conversation I don’t have concrete answers. My swag would be to find the regulation that authorizes the FAA to approve the 121 manuals. Probably find it somewhere in part 121. :dunno:
Click to expand...
As I said earlier, the subpart that authorizes the FAA to “accept” (not “approve”) manuals says nothing about the pilots following it. Anything in excess of the regulations is going to be company, not FAA violation.
 
denverpilot said:
It’s very likely his career in flying is not over. He’s going to be offered a shot at getting clean and complete (emphasis on the word complete) abstinence and a long expensive path back through the HIMS program and his Union will likely back it.
Click to expand...

Will his still lose his pay during this time? Or is it more like a suspended with pay?
 
MauleSkinner said:
As I said earlier, the subpart that authorizes the FAA to “accept” (not “approve”) manuals says nothing about the pilots following it. Anything in excess of the regulations is going to be company, not FAA violation.
Click to expand...
Ok. I’ll never know for sure for two reasons: 1. I don’t drink at work. 2: I don’t care enough to look it up. ;-)
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Charged with what?
Click to expand...

Don't know what the charge is but did find this in another story:

Pilot intoxication can bring criminal charges in the US, where pilots that try or succeed in flying drunk can face up to 15 years in prison. But they can also get off lightly; for example, an American Airlines pilot received a year of probation in August after pleading no contest to charges that he was drunk in the cockpit on a flight scheduled to leave for Philadelphia.

And this. Of course this concerns 'operating under the influence' although technically he wasn't operating, at least by the non-airline definition.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter17A&edition=prelim
 
BrianNC said:
Will his still lose his pay during this time? Or is it more like a suspended with pay?
Click to expand...

Don’t know. That’s more of a company and union thing. The guy I know was paid something smaller than usual by the union, I believe.

May need a whopper flopper job to make it back with some companies. More motivation to stay sober, I guess.
 
Lindberg said:
View attachment 76545
Click to expand...
Absolutely serious. What will they charge him with? They didn't catch him driving so can't get him for DUI. They removed him from the cockpit. What law on the books allows the police to arrest a pilot for entering a cockpit while intoxicated? I'm not saying the state MN doesn't have such a law, I would just like to know what that law is and how it reads.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Absolutely serious. What will they charge him with? They didn't catch him driving so can't get him for DUI. They removed him from the cockpit. What law on the books allows the police to arrest a pilot for entering a cockpit while intoxicated? I'm not saying the state MN doesn't have such a law, I would just like to know what that law is and how it reads.
Click to expand...
CFR14 91.17 doesn’t cover it?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Nobody has established when "act(ing) or attempting to act as a crewmember" actually starts according to the FAA.
Click to expand...
I think that's where a judge would come in. The LEO has suspicion that you were attempting to act as a crewmember, while intoxicated. Then it goes to trial and you get to plead your case to the judge.

It the same as mentioned above where you get a DUI for sleeping in the back seat of your car. LEO thinks you have the intent to drive... you are arrested for DUI.
 
Sluggo63 said:
CFR14 91.17 doesn’t cover it?
Click to expand...
I didn't know local LEO's were required to have intimate knowledge of all parts of CFR14 much less be required to arrest people for violating it. I'll be sure to call 911 next time I see someone take off without doing a preflight.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I didn't know local LEO's were required to have intimate knowledge of all parts of CFR14 much less be required to arrest people for violating it. I'll be sure to call 911 next time I see someone take off without doing a preflight.
Click to expand...
I don't think all parts mention LEOs. Part 91.17 specifically mentions/gives authority to local LEOs.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I don't think all parts mention LEOs. Part 91.17 specifically mentions/gives authority to local LEOs.
Click to expand...
91.17 specifically requires a required crew member to submit to a blood or breath test. Not seeing what authority it gives LEOs to arrest based on suspicion. Also not seeing what 91.17 authorizes a local prosecutor to charge a person with.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I don't think all parts mention LEOs. Part 91.17 specifically mentions/gives authority to local LEOs.
Click to expand...

The FAA does not give authority to LEOs. The regulation only requires the pilot to submit to an alcohol test given by an LEO when the LEO is "authorized under State or local law" to give such a test.
 
dmspilot said:
The FAA does not give authority to LEOs. The regulation only requires the pilot to submit to an alcohol test given by an LEO when the LEO is "authorized under State or local law" to give such a test.
Click to expand...
Which is probably where the whole "no charges have been filed" came from...the LEO doesn't have the authority to charge him with a violation of 91.17, and has no knowledge of the FAA violation process.
 
So unbelievably weird how this type of situation can have any grey area!

Small aside/hypothetical: Lets say this guy was the FO and the Captain signed the official flight release (or whatever its called). Then does the Captain now have a violation too?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Which is probably where the whole "no charges have been filed" came from...the LEO doesn't have the authority to charge him with a violation of 91.17, and has no knowledge of the FAA violation process.
Click to expand...
In general, LEOs arrest people. Prosecutors charge them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top