Drunk Delta Pilot

VWGhiaBob

VWGhiaBob

Line Up and Wait
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Mar 17, 2013
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VWGhiaBob
Beyond putting lives at risk, it boggles my mind that someone would do what it takes to reach the airline level and then drink before flying. I mean, many of us know what it takes to just get to IFR, let alone ATP, multi, type, build up hours, get through interviews. And then drink. I just don’t get it. Guess it just shows the power alcohol has over some people. Still...doesn’t make sense. https://www.10news.com/news/delta-p...ng-to-fly-drunk-from-minneapolis-to-san-diego
 
My church works with a men's addictions ministry. Most of us cannot understand what the abuse of alcohol, or drugs, can do to a person. Many of the men come out of the program we support and do very well in life. A few end up back there a second or even third time. They can never seem to overcome that grip on their lives. They will pretty much throw their whole life away to get another drink.
 
I've had my own problems with prescription pain meds after an injury. I've been in a program and weekly therapy and I'm clean since I started that.

Our old neighbor is a raging alcoholic. He'd stagger to our house to whine about his problems and it always seemed like he wanted to kick someone's ass. Only his mother stayed on his case about stopping drinking. His family had all stopped coming to see him, just gave up.

The last time he came over he said he wanted to kill his mother cause she just wouldn't leave him alone. This is a 54 year old man, talking like a teenager that just got grounded. He was too drunk to even sit up straight. I told him him that I, as a father, would be heartbroken if my son grew up to drink a bottle of vodka a day, that his mother just wanted better for him.

I talked him into joining me for an AA meeting. I told him my story of addiction. He cried, admitted he needed help. I told him his family would come back to him, he might meet a woman and not be so lonely anymore if he got sober.

Meeting day comes and he won't answer his door to go with me. Week later, meeting day comes again, no show. I even set reminders on his phone so he would remember and not drink the day of.

Haven't seen him since, it's obvious he's avoiding us. We are in the process of moving so he won't have to hide for long. He'll drink himself to death before long. I don't know what else to do for him.
 
Fiveslide said:
Haven't seen him since, it's obvious he's avoiding us. We are in the process of moving so he won't have to hide for long. He'll drink himself to death before long. I don't know what else to do for him.
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That's good of you to try to get him to go.

Unfortunately it reminds me of a horse, and water. :(
 
Yeah, wow. A rational person would call in a sick. But this guy is clearly not rational. First thing you wonder is how many other flights did he fly while intoxicated.

I have always wondered something about this charge specific to aviation. Lets say a normal person and pilot (see what I did there) sit at a hotel bar and close it down and then each manage to find a bottle to keep it going. They somehow get up in the morning at the same time.

Normal Guy: When does he actually break the each law? Walking out to the car drunk with a open bottle he still hasn't really broken any laws. If a cop is sitting in the parking lot watching this guy - when can be bust him for DUI...does he have to get into the car? Once he's in the car I can see the open container charge but do keys have to be inserted for the DUI?

Pilot: When does he actually break each law or violate a FAR? Is just arriving for work with an open container a FAA specific violation or can he carry it into the airport and just not through the security checkpoint (like a water bottle)? More importantly, when can he be charged with flying while be intoxicated. Is merely arriving at the security checkpoint and being discovered drunk a violation? Of does he actually have to get on the plane? You would think he would still have an option to report in sick between security and the getting on the plane. Just curious?
 
Being anywhere near the airport(or really anywhere) in uniform, while drinking or smelling of alcohol is a big no-no. Even if one was deadheading(to fly the next day), or jumpseating home, still an area not to go.
 
sourdough44 said:
Being anywhere near the airport(or really anywhere) in uniform, while drinking or smelling of alcohol is a big no-no. Even if one was deadheading(to fly the next day), or jumpseating home, still an area not to go.
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I would think so. Just imagine him standing in the security line, next to someone who is already nervous about flying. They smell alcohol on his breath, and notice him wearing a Delta pilot's uniform. That would not be good. If that happened to me, I would most definitely be calling security.
 
What’s with Minneapolis? Isn’t that where the Northwest guys got busted years ago for this? And wasn’t it Minneapolis the airport those guys over flew while they were playing with their laptops?
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Beyond putting lives at risk, it boggles my mind that someone would do what it takes to reach the airline level and then drink before flying. I mean, many of us know what it takes to just get to IFR, let alone ATP, multi, type, build up hours, get through interviews. And then drink. I just don’t get it. Guess it just shows the power alcohol has over some people. Still...doesn’t make sense. https://www.10news.com/news/delta-p...ng-to-fly-drunk-from-minneapolis-to-san-diego
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Boredom.
 
luvflyin said:
What’s with Minneapolis? Isn’t that where the Northwest guys got busted years ago for this? And wasn’t it Minneapolis the airport those guys over flew while they were playing with their laptops?
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Maybe the Bermuda Triangle got up & moved?? Could be some of that ‘Twilight Zone’ stuff too.
 
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Sinistar said:
Yeah, wow. A rational person would call in a sick. But this guy is clearly not rational. First thing you wonder is how many other flights did he fly while intoxicated.

I have always wondered something about this charge specific to aviation. Lets say a normal person and pilot (see what I did there) sit at a hotel bar and close it down and then each manage to find a bottle to keep it going. They somehow get up in the morning at the same time.

Normal Guy: When does he actually break the each law? Walking out to the car drunk with a open bottle he still hasn't really broken any laws. If a cop is sitting in the parking lot watching this guy - when can be bust him for DUI...does he have to get into the car? Once he's in the car I can see the open container charge but do keys have to be inserted for the DUI?

Pilot: When does he actually break each law or violate a FAR? Is just arriving for work with an open container a FAA specific violation or can he carry it into the airport and just not through the security checkpoint (like a water bottle)? More importantly, when can he be charged with flying while be intoxicated. Is merely arriving at the security checkpoint and being discovered drunk a violation? Of does he actually have to get on the plane? You would think he would still have an option to report in sick between security and the getting on the plane. Just curious?
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As to the normal person,it varies by state but in a lot the ability to drive drunk is enough. Keys on person walking to the car is enough. Ask a good dui lawyer in your state to get the info for your state.
 
while I have had some problems with alcohol in my past, I got through it & don't hardly have anything anymore, maybe 1 beer or drink every 2-3 weeks, at home, but that's it. I cant imagine throwing career away over alcohol after all money and time spent to get there, but I have a co-worker I have worked with for many years, nothing would stop him from daily getting totally wasted, many times came in drunk, well he now has cirrhosis of the liver, partially yellow, swelled and bloated, regularly going to get fluid removed, at first he was almost proud of himself for his disease, now its sunk in & he wont hardly talk to his co-workers but he tried to stop, realized he cant, and still drinking himself stupid every day. we all know it wont be but a short time, maybe a year or so & we will go to his funeral, but some people you cant change.
 
I work in the ER at a county hospital/level I trauma center. I get to see the end result. Can't wait to retire!
 
Fiveslide said:
I don't know what else to do for him
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There is nothing you can do for him until he makes the decision that he wants, needs to change. Constant reminders may help him make the decision, or keep him from that decision.
 
The CNN story says that no charges have been filed. Is it normal to release someone without filing charges if there was a positive breathalyzer result? Is it normal to wait for blood test results?
 
Larry in TN said:
The CNN story says that no charges have been filed. Is it normal to release someone without filing charges if there was a positive breathalyzer result? Is it normal to wait for blood test results?
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What did he do that was illegal?
 
MauleSkinner said:
What did he do that was illegal?
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Ditto.

I am not trying to defend the guy, he showed up drunk (allegedly) to fly a big plane full of people. People say its a big "No No" - well of course it is, duh. But when specifically did he break a federal law or violate a FAR? I am sure this guy will get fired, unless the union has something here to help me with this.

I would think the law would be more strict and more clear than a vehicle DUI. For example, why isn't it written that if you come within 'X" feet of the airplane you are about to operate (121,135) you are considered the same as operating it or at least have the intent of operating it. Then bingo, busted and very clear. But without a distance or some other type of check in process (eg ANY security line) it seems they almost have to show up at the gate and probably get into the cockpit.
 
^^^ I thought that was the reason why they wait until the pilot gets to the plane to make the bust - makes it easier to show intent to actually fly.
 
Sinistar said:
Ditto.

I am not trying to defend the guy, he showed up drunk (allegedly) to fly a big plane full of people. People say its a big "No No" - well of course it is, duh. But when specifically did he break a federal law or violate a FAR? I am sure this guy will get fired, unless the union has something here to help me with this.

I would think the law would be more strict and more clear than a vehicle DUI. For example, why isn't it written that if you come within 'X" feet of the airplane you are about to operate (121,135) you are considered the same as operating it or at least have the intent of operating it. Then bingo, busted and very clear. But without a distance or some other type of check in process (eg ANY security line) it seems they almost have to show up at the gate and probably get into the cockpit.
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He also tried to avoid a TSA check. But if he did any pre-flight action, he showed up drunk with the intent to fly; they should be enough to get him canned.
 
Once you show up at the airport ready for work you are considered to have "operated" the airplane. You can't tell the TSA agent at the checkpoint that you're just coming to the airport to tell the airline that you can't fly.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
He also tried to avoid a TSA check. But if he did any pre-flight action, he showed up drunk with the intent to fly; they should be enough to get him canned.
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Yeah, the pre-flight is probably a great qualifier as it could be considered very broad. But then you ended with "canned"....why not "arrested".
 
Larry in TN said:
Once you show up at the airport ready for work you are considered to have "operated" the airplane. You can't tell the TSA agent at the checkpoint that you're just coming to the airport to tell the airline that you can't fly.
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Is that in a federal regulation someplace or more along the same lines as a vehicle based DUI where its more of a precedent.

Oh yeah, I am from the Twin Cities :)
 
Yeah, I'd say if you're so drunk you can't push the 'fly' and 'land' button in the right sequence, you have a problem.
 
Sinistar said:
Yeah, the pre-flight is probably a great qualifier as it could be considered very broad. But then you ended with "canned"....why not "arrested".
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I'm more interested in the pilot not flying, rather than paying his room and board for a couple of years.
 
Sinistar said:
Is that in a federal regulation someplace or more along the same lines as a vehicle based DUI where its more of a precedent.
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I'm not a lawyer. That's how it has been described to us in company training and union communications. Someone else will have to fill in the details beyond that.
 
Arresting the pilot for showing up at the airport drunk would be like arresting a guy for being drunk in a parking garage. The potential ability to break the law is not generally considered by reasonable people to be a reason to send someone to jail. I've got a car that can break the speed limit... and occasionally I have a drink (or, gasp, even two) while my car and airplane keys are within easy reach. Hell, I've even been in a vehicle with the keys in my pocket while over the legal limit. Never mind that my wife was driving...

Arrestable offenses?

On the other hand, I'd expect Delta to fire the guy.
 
DaleB said:
Arresting the pilot for showing up at the airport drunk would be like arresting a guy for being drunk in a parking garage.
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A drunk, trying to sleep it off in the backseat of his car, is guilty of DUI if he has access to the car's keys.
 
Being anywhere near the airport(or really anywhere) in uniform, while drinking or smelling of alcohol is a big no-no
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tumblr_pac0f54JIY1xv2kc3o1_400.jpg

Just store it in the overhead compartment.
 
Sinistar said:
Ditto.

I am not trying to defend the guy, he showed up drunk (allegedly) to fly a big plane full of people. People say its a big "No No" - well of course it is, duh. But when specifically did he break a federal law or violate a FAR? I am sure this guy will get fired, unless the union has something here to help me with this.

I would think the law would be more strict and more clear than a vehicle DUI. For example, why isn't it written that if you come within 'X" feet of the airplane you are about to operate (121,135) you are considered the same as operating it or at least have the intent of operating it. Then bingo, busted and very clear. But without a distance or some other type of check in process (eg ANY security line) it seems they almost have to show up at the gate and probably get into the cockpit.
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Reporting for duty drunk is the same as flying drunk. That’s how the regs are interpreted and applied by the faa. I will add that it’s appropriate to be applied in that manner.
 
Larry in TN said:
A drunk, trying to sleep it off in the backseat of his car, is guilty of DUI if he has access to the car's keys.
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Aren't these State laws? Is there a Federal DUI statute? I've read, or been told, that open container is okay in Texas (not sure if it's true though)
 
Silvaire said:
Aren't these State laws? Is there a Federal DUI statute? I've read, or been told, that open container is okay in Texas (not sure if it's true though)
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I am not a lawyer. You will have to Google that yourself.

Would you expect state and Federal laws to have different standards on this?

The message from our airlines and unions are consistent. When you join the line for security screening you are operating the aircraft for the purposes of being fit for duty. Do you have anything that shows that this is wrong?
 
Larry in TN said:
A drunk, trying to sleep it off in the backseat of his car, is guilty of DUI if he has access to the car's keys.
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Not what I said. I said, drunk in a parking lot. Not in a car.

Now... how about drunk, WITH car keys, IN the front seat, but his or her sober DD is driving? That'd be interesting. I'm sure there are jurisdictions where they'd try to prosecute.
 
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