Smart Car

How should I get to work

  • Carpool with work-a-holic

    Votes: 1 3.1%
  • Motorcycle

    Votes: 8 25.0%
  • Smart Car

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • Buy a used car

    Votes: 18 56.3%

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

AuntPeggy

Final Approach
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I have been thinking lately about buying a used car because I'm not too crazy about coming to work really early and leaving really late because I carpool with a work-a-holic.

The thread about motorcycles got me to thinking about the possibility of buying one of those. Back when I was pregnant with my first son, my OB/GYN told me to stop riding motorcycles and horses, so I sold the motorcycle and haven't been on either since then. The kid will be 38 in 3 days.

Then I found this site: What do you think?
http://www.smartusa.com/smart-fortwo-pure.aspx

Edit: The distance is 21 miles. Two miles driving through the city of Stamford, CT. The rest is congested highway driving (I-287 & I-95).
 

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My wife's 14 year-old Tercel has more room, a bigger trunk, and gets about the same mileage.
 
Motorcycling is safe as flying, when done properly. But depending on commute distance, traffic conditions, and climate, you may not want to commute on one.

You get the most financial value for your dollar with a good used car. A new "smart car" will probably depreciate even faster than a new conventional car.
 
You didn't list "horse" on the poll choices. :)

I'd be as concerned about crashing a Smart Car as I would a motorcycle. And I agree you'll probably save more $ by buying a cheap used car vs. a high efficiency new car, between purchase price, insurance, depreciation, and gas.
 
The first time a saw a Smart car was about 3-4 yrs ago on a trip to Europe. My initial reaction - "If it's so Smart, why does it look so dumb?". Didn't see any on the highways, but in the cities/towns they were everywhere. Finding a parking spot was easy - they are as long as they are wide, so instead of parallel parking, they would just pull straight in.
 
I think the Smart Car makes sense if you're just doing city driving, where even an electric car with limited range would work.

I appreciate the insight on car pooling. When I thought about I knew the weird hours would make it impossible. Either you always leave at 5 or you can't do it. There's a bus from the nearest train station to one of our offices. Same deal. In my case, it would be me that might have to stay at work until 8 PM.
 
Thanks for the input.

I just edited the original post to show distance and traffic conditions.

Horse is definitely out of the question. No place to park a Clydesdale at home or at work.
 
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Driving on a congested highway in a dinky car can be a little intimidating. I used to commute 51 miles each way in South Florida in a Miata. Then one day I was going down I-95 and saw half of a Honda Accord on one side of the road, half on the other. Just then a semi passed me and I was looking underneath the trailer at the Accord's wreckage. That weekend I bought a HUGE Mercedes 450 SEL from a friend's mother. Gas mileage sucked, but I felt a lot better about the commute.
 
Driving on a congested highway in a dinky car can be a little intimidating. I used to commute 51 miles each way in South Florida in a Miata. Then one day I was going down I-95 and saw half of a Honda Accord on one side of the road, half on the other. Just then a semi passed me and I was looking underneath the trailer at the Accord's wreckage. That weekend I bought a HUGE Mercedes 450 SEL from a friend's mother. Gas mileage sucked, but I felt a lot better about the commute.

Bruce had a Miata too, until the accident.

I feel small enough just trying to look around the mega-mongo-SUVs and pickups in the Sable, which is a mid-size.

That's why I plan to get a Volvo XC90 with my round tuit. Being surrounded by the steel in Merdeces is just as nice.
 
I have been thinking lately about buying a used car because I'm not too crazy about coming to work really early and leaving really late because I carpool with a work-a-holic.

The thread about motorcycles got me to thinking about the possibility of buying one of those. Back when I was pregnant with my first son, my OB/GYN told me to stop riding motorcycles and horses, so I sold the motorcycle and haven't been on either since then. The kid will be 38 in 3 days.

Then I found this site: What do you think?
http://www.smartusa.com/smart-fortwo-pure.aspx

Edit: The distance is 21 miles. Two miles driving through the city of Stamford, CT. The rest is congested highway driving (I-287 & I-95).

Smart Cars are pretty interesting, they revised the concept of safety from crumple zone safety to as I refer to it "The Ping Pong Ball" theory of safety in that they created a structural cage which is flexible and stronger than the energy input required to deflect it, so when you hit (or something hits you) it bounces away. The engineers at Mercedes seemed to have gotten it pretty right by all appearances and its safety record in Europe. I would say for a city commuter it would be a good choice. As for a motorcycle for a commuter for you, I don't think it would be very practical for much of the year due to the climate you live in, you'd probably need a car as well. If you can get the diesel Smart Car, your fuel milage would be competetive with a motorcycle that had enough power to be safe as well (70mpg).
 
Smart Cars are pretty interesting, they revised the concept of safety from crumple zone safety to as I refer to it "The Ping Pong Ball" theory of safety in that they created a structural cage which is flexible and stronger than the energy input required to deflect it, so when you hit (or something hits you) it bounces away.
Here is a pretty dramatic video of what Henning is talking about.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6fca83551a

Pretty impressive for a 70mph frontal crash. :hairraise: I wonder what the G-forces were; prolly not survivable.

-Skip
 
Smart Cars are pretty interesting, they revised the concept of safety from crumple zone safety to as I refer to it "The Ping Pong Ball" theory of safety in that they created a structural cage which is flexible and stronger than the energy input required to deflect it, so when you hit (or something hits you) it bounces away. The engineers at Mercedes seemed to have gotten it pretty right by all appearances and its safety record in Europe. I would say for a city commuter it would be a good choice. As for a motorcycle for a commuter for you, I don't think it would be very practical for much of the year due to the climate you live in, you'd probably need a car as well. If you can get the diesel Smart Car, your fuel milage would be competetive with a motorcycle that had enough power to be safe as well (70mpg).

Here is a pretty dramatic video of what Henning is talking about.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6fca83551a

Pretty impressive for a 70mph frontal crash. :hairraise: I wonder what the G-forces were; prolly not survivable.

-Skip

I bet it was...

Cool. SOLD!

OK, Peggy, change my vote. Get the SmartCar, if they don't have shortages.
 
Assuming they come with airbags and good restraints, then I'd agree they are as survivable in front impacts (and probably rear as well) as a conventional car.

Not sure about roll stability, side impact, and protection in a rollover accident, or their performance in the kind of winter weather you might see.
 
Assuming they come with airbags and good restraints, then I'd agree they are as survivable in front impacts (and probably rear as well) as a conventional car.

Not sure about roll stability, side impact, and protection in a rollover accident, or their performance in the kind of winter weather you might see.

Full restraint and airbags (side impact as well IIRC) are there, the cage is a full surround unit, it'll bounce off the roof and side the same as it does the front and rear. Winter in Conneticut is no worse than winter in northern Europe. They really are working out very well in Europe, and their performance isn't half bad.
 
I think the main benefit in getting a smart car isn't gas mileage, but parking. There are many other cars that get the same or better gas mileage for the same price, although this being made by Mercedes might be of higher quality. But these things make parking a non-issue. Almost everyone in Rome had one, simply because they could make almost anything into a parking space. Forget about ever parallel parking again: those are as long as most other cars are wide, so you can just pull perpendicular to the curb and have a smaller profile than the Explorer next to you.
 
I don't know about anyone else but I called on a dual dealership that has Mercedes (this was in 2003-2006). The MB quality sucks at best. The dealership despises them and the technicians do not get any support from corporate. I use to visit this store every 60 days or so and it was not unusual to see the same cars in the shop on consecutive visits. As with all things, YMMV.

My vote is on a good used car. I've been in the car business (wholesale and retail) for 25 years and have never purchased a new car even though I can get them at dead cost, which is below any dealer invoice. Depreciation on a new car makes for a bad use of ones money IMNSHO.
 
Depreciation on a new car makes for a bad use of ones money IMNSHO.
The folks at Carmax said they'd rather sell the used cars any day over a new Chrysler product. They make a lot more profit, have a lot more freedom to accommodate customer needs and they don't have to wrestle with the manufacturer over warranty issues. It's theirs to do what it takes to make the customer happy.

I've bought two vehicles from Carmax. They'll be a third when the time comes.
 
Henning's info on SmartCar crash data is interesting. I'd still be mighty nervous on 287 and 95 at rush hour. I'd want something a little bigger and tougher. How about an old Volvo GL diesel? There are a lot of them roaming around the northeast. Used Audi A4. Used Honda Accord - decent mileage, run like Swiss watches.
 
Henning's info on SmartCar crash data is interesting. I'd still be mighty nervous on 287 and 95 at rush hour. I'd want something a little bigger and tougher....

I just had a vision of Escalades, Hummers, Durangos, Macks, Kenworths, and Tahoes paying soccer with a SmartCar as the ball.
 
If I lived IN the city I would consider one in a heart-beat. Since I have a 50-mile one-way commute in hellish Atlanta traffic. Nope.

Then again I did ride my motorcycle to work on occasion since it got me in the HOV lane!
 
If I lived IN the city I would consider one in a heart-beat. Since I have a 50-mile one-way commute in hellish Atlanta traffic. Nope.

Then again I did ride my motorcycle to work on occasion since it got me in the HOV lane!
Flying the WSB traffic plane, I'm really enjoying "looking down" on you suckers sitting in that mess. :D

Today, they began rerouting the 14th St bridge traffic and when the bridge is taken out, it will be out until at least Spring of 2010. That's enough to make one want to change jobs from Midtown to out on the perimeter. The cost of getting to work is going to be as bad as the drive after sitting in traffic for a substantial part of one's day. It may well change some folk's idea on what they should be driving.
 
Go for the Smart. I will be buying later this year. They are really great. I have seen and used them in Europe. Very comfortable, good view, more room than you would think and very safe.
 
Well Peggy i voted for the Used car cause i think the Smart is UGLY, and i wouldn't be seen driving it. But Thats me. You can get a real nice used car that gets 40+ MPH for alot less money too.
Dave G.
 
Flying the WSB traffic plane, I'm really enjoying "looking down" on you suckers sitting in that mess. :D

Today, they began rerouting the 14th St bridge traffic and when the bridge is taken out, it will be out until at least Spring of 2010. That's enough to make one want to change jobs from Midtown to out on the perimeter. The cost of getting to work is going to be as bad as the drive after sitting in traffic for a substantial part of one's day. It may well change some folk's idea on what they should be driving.

You fly the traffic plane? Really?
 
If I were driving almost exclusively in a congested metro area, the Smart would make a lot of sense. But by definition, "commute" means that you are coming "in" from "out," and for this, I would not go for the Smart.

If you're talking long-term, I would still suggest a serious look at the VW Jetta diesel; plenty of power, a rock-solid drivetrain and real-world fuel economy which will equal or better the Smart.
 
You fly the traffic plane? Really?
Yassir. Just started last week. For now, only a couple days a week. It's kind of fun juggling four Class D towers and skirting Class B surface on a TAC alone, no GPS. If my head was never on a swivel before, it sure is now. The only downside is I think this woman's husband is a submissive if that gives you any clue what kind of personality I'm dealing with. All I can do is tell the towers what I'm expecting to do and hope it doesn't change. She does put me into some weird predicaments at times. :)

Tom, if you have to drive up to the Downtown/Midtown area, I'd highly suggest you avoid doing it for two or three days. Let the mindless idiots figure out what they are doing first. Those would be the ones who don't watch news, don't listen to anything on the radio without a melody (traffic reports) and dang sure don't pay attention to the changeable warning signs while headed into town. Or, head in about 6-6.30AM well ahead of everyone. By 7.30, it's gonna be a whole lotta stop and very little go. I'd bet fuel use will go up by 20%+ during that first week.
 
Yassir. Just started last week. For now, only a couple days a week. It's kind of fun juggling four Class D towers and skirting Class B surface on a TAC alone, no GPS. If my head was never on a swivel before, it sure is now. The only downside is I think this woman's husband is a submissive if that gives you any clue what kind of personality I'm dealing with. All I can do is tell the towers what I'm expecting to do and hope it doesn't change. She does put me into some weird predicaments at times. :)

Tom, if you have to drive up to the Downtown/Midtown area, I'd highly suggest you avoid doing it for two or three days. Let the mindless idiots figure out what they are doing first. Those would be the ones who don't watch news, don't listen to anything on the radio without a melody (traffic reports) and dang sure don't pay attention to the changeable warning signs while headed into town. Or, head in about 6-6.30AM well ahead of everyone. By 7.30, it's gonna be a whole lotta stop and very little go. I'd bet fuel use will go up by 20%+ during that first week.

Thanks for the advice Ken, fortunately (well sorta) I will be flying out to New Hampshire for the week tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully by the time I get back to going to work in a week they will have figured it out!

I think I know who you are talking about....I can only imagine the fun you have in the air! LOL
 
I just had a vision of Escalades, Hummers, Durangos, Macks, Kenworths, and Tahoes paying soccer with a SmartCar as the ball.
Now I cannot get the image of a SmartCar soccer ball out of my head.

My wife's 14 year-old Tercel has more room, a bigger trunk, and gets about the same mileage.
OK. Check out a Tercel.

Driving on a congested highway in a dinky car can be a little intimidating. I used to commute 51 miles each way in South Florida in a Miata. Then one day I was going down I-95 and saw half of a Honda Accord on one side of the road, half on the other. Just then a semi passed me and I was looking underneath the trailer at the Accord's wreckage. That weekend I bought a HUGE Mercedes 450 SEL from a friend's mother. Gas mileage sucked, but I felt a lot better about the commute.
Don't consider Honda Accord.

Cool. SOLD!

OK, Peggy, change my vote. Get the SmartCar, if they don't have shortages.
$99 to get on the waiting list.

If I were driving almost exclusively in a congested metro area, the Smart would make a lot of sense. But by definition, "commute" means that you are coming "in" from "out," and for this, I would not go for the Smart.

If you're talking long-term, I would still suggest a serious look at the VW Jetta diesel; plenty of power, a rock-solid drivetrain and real-world fuel economy which will equal or better the Smart.
Check out Jetta diesel. I drive opposite direction from major traffic. Of course, nearly everything from Boston to DC on I-95 is congested traffic during rush hours.

My carpool friend drives a Mini-Cooper, so we already look kind of odd.
 
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Commuting on a motorcycle in the spring/summer/fall is a great option. The problem is that in the winter (and on rainy days in the other three seasons), you aren't going to want to ride. Getting caught on a motorcycle in rain is doable, but not particularly fun. So, then what do you do on those days? Ride with the work-a-holic, or else you need to have a car anyway.

My vote is for the used car. If you want something that is cheap to buy, cheap to own, and cheap to drive, I'd suggest a Buick with the 3.8L V6 and front wheel drive. The things are ridiculously cheap to buy (you can get ones with <100k on the clock for under $5k easily), get 30 mpg highway, and the drivetrain is fairly well indestructible. Buicks have the lowest purchase price because of their association as old man mobiles, but I personally like driving the things. I've been considering the possibility of getting one for myself as a third car, using it primarily for commuting and trips to New York when I'm not planning on needing to tow or haul large items. I keep on telling myself it's not worth it because the extra costs (purchase, insurance, and maintenance) won't outweigh the fuel savings I get driving it vs. my truck, especially since the truck's primary use is in winter and for duties where another car wouldn't help me anyway. In the summer, I'm driving the Jag anyway - which I will drive regardless of fuel economy (although it gets 18-20 in my commuter cycle, 14 if I'm driving hard and 20+ on the highway).

A new Smart Car I don't see as an economical choice. It will depreciate like any new car, and it is tremendously impractical. Buy a used car, is my advice. :)
 
The Honda Accord is not exactly a small car. I wouldn't cross one off the list. They are a pretty good vehicle.

What Jesse said. I owned one for 8 years, and it was already 8 years old when I bought it. It was getting a bit worn, but still ran like a champ. Never had a major maintenance expense on it - I think the alternator and the slave cylinder on the clutch were the biggest, and IIRC they were both sub-$200 to fix.
 
Interesting article:

Selling Smart: Tiny car sparks big changes


Ryan Beene
Automotive News
January 28, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

ENLARGE
David Schembri, CEO of Smart U.S.A., at Smart Center Bloomfield: A new brand and a new car required a new business model.
Photo credit: A.J. MUELLER
Related stories
Brand needed 'a new business model'
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DETROIT — Six or seven staff members were circulating around the showroom of Smart Center Bloomfield as coffee brewed at the information desk when I walked in on Jan. 17. It was their first official day selling the tiny European microcar.
Surrounding them in this clean, modern showroom in Detroit's north-western suburbs were three Smart ForTwos. A cutaway display of the little two-seater's steel roll cage radiated in bright colors.
Staff members were preoccupied. They were talking about Roger.
But they weren't talking about Roger Penske, who owns Penske Automotive Group, the parent company of Smart U.S.A. Penske did make a brief appearance but didn't drive a Smart ForTwo; he drove a Bentley.
The staff was double-checking when Roger Stam was coming into the store.
Stam was the first customer in Michigan to receive his ForTwo. He was coming in at 2 p.m. on that cold, wet gray January day — and they all knew him by his first name.
Smart dealers
A snapshot of the Smart U.S.A. dealer network
-- 62 sales outlets in 31 states, chosen from 500 applicants.
-- 12 more outlets coming by June 1.
-- 22 exclusive stores.
-- The average size is 3,000 square feet.
-- 46 stores share sales or service space with Mercedes-Benz dealerships.
What, no trunk?
Soon, three customers walked into the dealership and began to browse the ForTwos on display.
Mark Gifford, 34, from Clio, Mich., came in with his boss, who wanted to check out the Smart cars. But Gifford wasn't too enthusiastic about the city car.
"It wouldn't be practical," he said. "I couldn't throw my kids in the trunk."
That's when I overheard near-giddy brand specialist Tom Minninger schooling other visitors on the For-Two.
He was extolling the virtues and cool features of the Smart car, from the rear-mounted three-cylinder engine to the "service flap" on the hood. It's a plastic hood that detaches from the car to reveal washer fluid, brake fluid and other tanks.
Minninger said the car's lineage is one reason he was so excited about the brand.
"I used to be with Mercedes-Benz," he said. Mercedes-Benz parent company Daimler AG manufactures Smart cars.
Said Minninger: "I always respected the quality, and that's why I'm so happy to be here."
ENLARGE
Stores have a Smart frame on display -- but no inventory in the lot.
Photo credit: A.J. MUELLER Backlog of orders
Joe Ziniti, Smart Center Bloomfield's general manager, said his dealership is scheduled to deliver 80 to 90 ForTwos by the end of February as the cars are shipped from their factory in France.
"We haven't had too much communication with the customers because Smart just kind of gave us our customers for the first couple of months," he said. The first vehicles are going to satisfy the backlog of online orders that built up before the retail launch.
But, Ziniti said, people have been coming by the dealership for about a week, out of curiosity.
"Who we're seeing walk in are the people who are definitely environmentally conscious," he said.
The ForTwo's fuel economy, Ziniti said, is a big draw in this time of perpetually rising gas prices.
Smart says the car will get 33 mpg in city driving and 41 mpg on the highway.
The star of the opening day was Stam, 67, of White Lake Township, Mich., who was in the media spotlight after he got his blue convertible ForTwo. Local TV and radio media types repeatedly asked him the same questions.
Later, he spoke a bit about why he was, as he said, "tickled to death" about his new car.
"I needed a much more fuel-efficient car, and I wanted something a little more fun and not boring," Stam said. His choice was not made by comparison shopping.
ENLARGE
Joe Ziniti, Smart Center Bloomfield's general manager, puts Roger Stam -- customer No. 1 -- into his new ForTwo.
Photo credit: A.J. MUELLER Not your typical buyer
It became clear that the Smart buyer is different from the average buyer. A Smart buyer wants the car because it's cool and a good value, not necessarily because the buyer needs a car.
"In the traditional car-buying atmosphere, sometimes there's an edge to a customer because they're so well-schooled to say, 'Go in there with your guard up and hit 'em — you're gonna buy it at invoice,' " Ziniti said.
"In here, people are coming in with big smiles on their faces because they know, 'My car's here, it was built the way I want it, I don't have to play the game.' "
Seeking fun, mpg
Every person I talked with either had reserved a car or, if browsing, wasn't comparison shopping. They were only thinking about the Smart car. I didn't hear anyone say, "For the same money, you could get a car like the Nissan Versa, Honda Fit or Chevy Cobalt with a real back seat and trunk — so why would I buy this?"
Instead, it appeared that Smart ForTwo customers were lured because of the fun factor and fuel economy.
Novelty and fuel economy brought in 30-year-old Chad Clark of suburban Waterford Township, Mich. He works as a landscaper and drives a 2008 Ford F-350 Super Duty pickup. He says the 10 to 13 mpg his hefty diesel-powered truck gets is "just terrible."
"If I were going to get one of these, I'd just drive it around," Clark said. "But if gas goes up too high, that would be my primary vehicle. Everybody has their breaking point."
Smart must be doing something right. Since opening, Smart Center Bloomfield has added 30 customers to the reservation list. Maybe a year wait isn't too long.
 
Smart says the car will get 33 mpg in city driving and 41 mpg on the highway.

That is it? There is nothing revolutionary about that. So the main selling point is that it is physically small? Since when did America like small things?
 
That is it? There is nothing revolutionary about that. So the main selling point is that it is physically small? Since when did America like small things?

And that's why I posted the article. Knowing full well that if I made that comment regarding fuel economy it wouldn't have been believed.
 
That is it? There is nothing revolutionary about that. So the main selling point is that it is physically small? Since when did America like small things?
The economy is pretty good. But, not nearly as efficient as the crush-ability between two SUVs. :)
 
So the main selling point is that it is physically small? Since when did America like small things?
Good things come in small packages. You should know that Jesse. :D

Seriously though, I can see there being a market for these small cars for people living in cities with limited parking opportunities. Wait until you drive around for 20 minutes looking for a parking spot and all the all the available places are a foot or two too short. Yeah, I know it never happens in Nebraska... ;)
 
The economy is pretty good. But, not nearly as efficient as the crush-ability between two SUVs. :)

It's safer than an SUV. That's why the manufacturers love SUVs, they don't have to meet passenger car safety regulations because they are considered trucks. Where the 33-41mpg figure comes from, I don't know what they did to em to bring them here. I drove the gasoline model and got 50-52 combined, and with the diesel got 70 regardless of where or how driven.
 
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