Garmin GNS 750 vs Avidyne IFD 540

[Buck Rizvi]

Similar here. I have a general aviation background but for the most part I haven't flown anything that didn't come out of a Boeing factory for the last 30 years. I feel like rip van Winkle as I re-enter the GAosphere. Garmin, who's that and where's my Narco navcom at? While my son loves it, I never quite mastered the g430w so not a lot to unlearn .

I took Jesse Saint up on his Avidyne for sale offer and should have an IFD 540 waiting for me when I get home. The book from Amazon is already waiting.

February will bring an avidyne, an Aspen, and a new Garmin nav com to replace my familiar touchstone King 170, and a whole lot of new ****e to learn!

I feel you. One of my Boulder pals was a 777 check pilot and his Cessna 310 still ran on steam gauges. He just bought a Cessna 320 wants my help upgrading the panel. That will be a fun exercise! He'll probably go all Garmin, which is fine.

Good luck with your 540. I think the major diff between the 540 and my 550 is the synth vision. Honestly, I never use the synth vision feature as I already have synth vision on my iPad with ForeFlight connected to a Stratus!

 

[Glenn C]

That's badass! I'm friends with a Fedex pilot and he likes having passengers who never complain! The Shorts 360 looks like fun!

Been with big brown for 30 years and have yet to hear a complaint from the back!

 

[Glenn C]

his Cessna 310 still ran on steam gauges. He just bought a Cessna 320 wants my help upgrading the panel. That will be a fun exercise! He'll probably go all Garmin, which is fine.
/QUOTE]

My wife flies the 777, looked at our panel and said, "where's the glass?" Great to have an understanding wife <G>

The Garmin navigator was going to run about $7000 more than the Avidyne by the time install and wifi/Bluetooth is added.

Big difference between the ifd 540 and 550 that I could tell seems to be the ahrs and some of the tricks it can do such as making your screen act as a backup artificial horizon. Like you I have ahrs all over the place transponder and stratux, how many do you need? Plus, I'll still have vacuum. The 540 and 550 have syn vis, I forget about the 440, it's a bit more advanced I guess on the 550. Add syn vis and forward looking terrain to the Garmin and the price climbs even higher.

The Aspen was pretty close to the g5 with their sale, about 2000 more and they are throwing in syn viz. That was a tough call. If you can go txi you are looking in the mid twenties and up vs low teens, and Garmin doesn't have the 310 on the list for autopilot development much less the 320. I would have been a lot happier and probably would have stayed on the Garmin reservation if they offered something between the G5 and the Txi.

Shopping was relatively easy, particularly for you with someone else's money. Book good install now, that was the real choke point.

 

[Buck Rizvi]

@Glenn C I read a review of the Garmin GFC 600 (vs. S-TEC 3100) in "IFR Magazine" that was installed on a 340. Garmin got the nod. Strange they don't have the 310 on the list!

 

[MIFlyer]

I have an IFD 550 and dual G5's The HSI / GPSS function beautifully! With the AHRS on the IFD 550 and the slaved Ipad Pro 9.7" displaying my moving map it is one sweet and redundant setup. The Ipad isn't necessary but it sure is nice to just be able to dedicate that one screen to moving map / weather. That frees up the entire 550 for FMS (flight plan) work anytime I need it. The functionality of the IFD is so dang user friendly that It pretty much negates and need for Foreflight integration. I use a yoke mounted Ipad mini for approach plates only. Other than that the IFD does everything.

Bringing this back for a new dimension. If you were a new instrument student with your own plane. Would you learn with a GNS430W that's in the plane or put an IFD 440 in and just start learning from it? In the club planes I fly today, the GNS has just never made sense to me as a VFR pilot (and having a few IR lessons). I just can't seem to make sense of their logic for where things are, so it requires rote memorization on how many turns of which knob are supposed to do stuff. Any opinion

 

[Racerx]

Bringing this back for a new dimension. If you were a new instrument student with your own plane. Would you learn with a GNS430W that's in the plane or put an IFD 440 in and just start learning from it? In the club planes I fly today, the GNS has just never made sense to me as a VFR pilot (and having a few IR lessons). I just can't seem to make sense of their logic for where things are, so it requires rote memorization on how many turns of which knob are supposed to do stuff. Any opinion

I would download the ifd trainer app and see if you like it enough to warrant the hardware cost. Getting an ifd but not instrument rated and never flown behind a panel mount gps. Wanted to the plane upgraded and some hours in the new panel before crossing that bridge. Having never flown behind a GNS or ifd, there was a bit of a functionality learning curve. I think I got it figured out thanks to the app. I probably should have... And will eventually read the ifd book.

 

[Jesse Saint]

Once you learn a system, it will make sense, no matter which one it is. However, the IFD makes a lot of things easier than the GNS for IFR and flight planning.

 

[MIFlyer]

I would download the ifd trainer app and see if you like it enough to warrant the hardware cost. Getting an ifd but not instrument rated and never flown behind a panel mount gps. Wanted to the plane upgraded and some hours in the new panel before crossing that bridge. Having never flown behind a GNS or ifd, there was a bit of a functionality learning curve. I think I got it figured out thanks to the app. I probably should have... And will eventually read the ifd book.

Thanks, that's a nice way to do it. I'd just have to take myself through the flow of an IFR flight (plan, load, get an amended clearance over the radio, fly enroute, get assigned an approach, fly approach). Probably a great way to do it. It is appealing to go IFD440 and put the "old" ipad on the panel to display a larger screen.

 

[MIFlyer]

Once you learn a system, it will make sense, no matter which one it is. However, the IFD makes a lot of things easier than the GNS for IFR and flight planning.

Thanks Jesse. I'm hoping to have the avionics make the training more natural instead of them being their own huge learning curve, and I'll admit, I'm hesitant to invest in more brainpower to learn a system I wouldn't fly behind, so I'm a little torn. I like Racerx's idea to use the IFD app and see how it goes for free.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Bringing this back for a new dimension. If you were a new instrument student with your own plane. Would you learn with a GNS430W that's in the plane or put an IFD 440 in and just start learning from it? In the club planes I fly today, the GNS has just never made sense to me as a VFR pilot (and having a few IR lessons). I just can't seem to make sense of their logic for where things are, so it requires rote memorization on how many turns of which knob are supposed to do stuff. Any opinion

I teach both Garmin and Avidyne. If I planned to upgrade, I would do it now. Although not that difficult, there are definitely interface and flow logic differences between Garmin and Avidyne. Between GNS and Avidyne (or a GTN), also a large increase in functionality. Not better or worse, but different. So if you learn on one and then switch, you will have a new learning curve for the same basics.

Emphasis on "basics." My experience with new instrument pilots is that the avionics training they received in anything tends to be pretty rudimentary, no matter which avionics they trained with. Just the nature of the types of tasks performed in training. I even have a list of tasks I do on IPCs because pilot often don't know how. But the emphasis on basics might mean the differences won't mean that much to you.

If you want to see some of the differences, my COVID stay-at-home project was three videos comparing Avidyne and Garmin performing a discrete task. It's not meant as training for any of them (plenty of videos on that, especially from Avidyne), but just to show some of the differences. This is a link to the playlist.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks Jesse. I'm hoping to have the avionics make the training more natural instead of them being their own huge learning curve, and I'll admit, I'm hesitant to invest in more brainpower to learn a system I wouldn't fly behind, so I'm a little torn. I like Racerx's idea to use the IFD app and see how it goes for free.

Also, if you happen to use X-Plane, Avidyne has a second app which will allow you to use the Avidyne on flights. The only significant limitation I've noticed is that it will not run an X-Plane autopilot.

 

[manac]

I’m working on my IR with a 430W. Never occurred to me to change. There’s a learning curve to the 430 but the Garmin simulator helps. From what I understand there a lot of happy 430 pilots out there.

 

[SCCutler]

I’m working on my IR with a 430W. Never occurred to me to change. There’s a learning curve to the 430 but the Garmin simulator helps. From what I understand there a lot of happy 430 pilots out there.

I used the 430 for years, and had one in my Bo; upgraded to the IFD440 and I'm happy with it, but it's not as if the 430 was some sort of punishment to use. More memorization than logic, but I still find myself thinking how I would have done it in the 430w.

 

[MIFlyer]

I used the 430 for years, and had one in my Bo; upgraded to the IFD440 and I'm happy with it, but it's not as if the 430 was some sort of punishment to use. More memorization than logic, but I still find myself thinking how I would have done it in the 430w.

Did the ifd have a s similar amount of memorization or was it more logical?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SCCutler]

Did the ifd have a s similar amount of memorization or was it more logical?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The IFD is vastly more logical; the GNS required memorization of keystroke sequences, committed to rote memory. They took, but it was not logical at all, by comparison to the IFD.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Did the ifd have a s similar amount of memorization or was it more logical?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"Logic" is a little like "intuitive" in this context. Eye of the beholder.

There is going to be a certain amount of base "this is how it works" memorization, but the same techniques will be used again and again and again.

Each unit has its adherents and detractors. Personally, I have not seen a huge net difference.

 

[Jereme Carne]

The 430 units seem half way logical once you get used to them. The thing that drives me crazy is not being able to enter airways and how long it takes to enter letters. I was flying to Vegas last week and got a reroute 3 times; I felt like all I was doing was entering stuff into the GPS that flight. IFD as soon as I can afford.

I must still pay my respects though, the 430 is a beast and I got my instrument with one and will always be thankful. Respect

 

[midlifeflyer]

The 430 units seem half way logical once you get used to them. The thing that drives me crazy is not being able to enter airways and how long it takes to enter letters. I was flying to Vegas last week and got a reroute 3 times; I felt like all I was doing was entering stuff into the GPS that flight. IFD as soon as I can afford.

I must still pay my respects though, the 430 is a beast and I got my instrument with one and will always be thankful. Respect

The 430/530 is 25 years old at this point. The WAAS units are only 9 years newer. That's a long time in the tech world. And I don't think there has been any type of serious update since the GTNs came out about 10 years ago.

I think most share your frustration about airways, with some opting for a FlightStream to transfer flight plans back and forth with Garmin Pilot or Foreflight. I fly a friend's airplane which has a 530W and his addition of FlightStream was a major improvement.

 

[Jereme Carne]

The 430/530 is 25 years old at this point. The WAAS units are only 9 years newer. That's a long time in the tech world. And I don't think there has been any type of serious update since the GTNs came out about 10 years ago.

I think most share your frustration about airways, with some opting for a FlightStream to transfer flight plans back and forth with Garmin Pilot or Foreflight. I fly a friend's airplane which has a 530W and his addition of FlightStream was a major improvement.

Ya I would love to put in the FlightStream but have too many other things I want to buy for the plane, I guess I'll just keep my fat fingers sharp! haha

 

[MIFlyer]

"Logic" is a little like "intuitive" in this context. Eye of the beholder.

There is going to be a certain amount of base "this is how it works" memorization, but the same techniques will be used again and again and again.

Each unit has its adherents and detractors. Personally, I have not seen a huge net difference.

Thanks Mark, trying to reduce helmet fires as I learn everything else with IR that if the GPS is a whole 'nother area of learning that takes as much as the core area of IFR navigation then it's not doing it's job. IMO. I'm watching the comparison videos and also watching how to input a flight plan, start to finish in the GNS vs the IFD. Looks to be about an 8k upgrade, which is a lot of coin.

 

[somorris]

Hi MIFlyer.

Not personal experience, so consider that. I have a friend with a C-182 that has both radios. He says the IFD (to him) is more intuitive and easier to use. Garmin has a lot of followers, though.

Good luck! Let us know what you decide to do.

 

[midlifeflyer]

s I learn everything else with IR that if the GPS is a whole 'nother area of learning that takes as much as the core area of IFR navigation

Absolutely. I've said for years that only 10-20% of IFR is about flying the airplane without visual references. The other 80-90% is rules and procedures. These days, a large chunk of that is understanding your avionics. When I give an IPC, I cover the tasks the FAA wants me to, but the biggest part of it is really ensuring the pilot can handle common tasks I've seen pilots have trouble with.

A real world example (location changed): The snip is from the RNAV 2 into Barwick Lafayette, GA (9A5), about 20 nm south of Chattanooga, TN. Inbound from the south, the pilot requests the RNAV 2 from LETBE and is advised to expect straight in. The pilot loads the approach from LETBE. There is a slight difference in the way Garmin and Avidyne handle this but the net result is, expecting straight in, the pilot loads the approach without the course reversal at LETBE.

About 5 minutes from LETBE, ATC comes on with, "N1234X, we have another airplane on the approach ahead of you. Hold as published at LRTBE."

This is not an unusual situation. It is not difficult to handle. Takes about 6-10 seconds. Nevertheless I've seen experienced pilots not sure what to do even though they absolutely have the rote knowledge to accomplish it. In fact the "how to" is a staple of instrument training.

 

[PPC1052]

I even have a list of tasks I do on IPCs because pilot often don't know how.

Would you ever consider posting that list?

 

[MIFlyer]

I teach both Garmin and Avidyne. If I planned to upgrade, I would do it now. Although not that difficult, there are definitely interface and flow logic differences between Garmin and Avidyne. Between GNS and Avidyne (or a GTN), also a large increase in functionality. Not better or worse, but different. So if you learn on one and then switch, you will have a new learning curve for the same basics.

Emphasis on "basics." My experience with new instrument pilots is that the avionics training they received in anything tends to be pretty rudimentary, no matter which avionics they trained with. Just the nature of the types of tasks performed in training. I even have a list of tasks I do on IPCs because pilot often don't know how. But the emphasis on basics might mean the differences won't mean that much to you.

If you want to see some of the differences, my COVID stay-at-home project was three videos comparing Avidyne and Garmin performing a discrete task. It's not meant as training for any of them (plenty of videos on that, especially from Avidyne), but just to show some of the differences. This is a link to the playlist.

Thank you. I found your videos helpful. You now have me considering if the jump to GTN is worth it, just for the waypoint capabilities.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Would you ever consider posting that list?

No secret. I've posted it before. There are some variations, such as knowing the multiple situations where reloading an approach is appropriate, but this is the basic list.

1. Activate a Leg
2. Intercept a course or radial.
3. Loading airway when entry point is behind you
4. Switch or reload approaches.
5. Holding (creating a random hold in units that have that feature)
6. Setting up alternates in advance.

 

[PPC1052]

No secret. I've posited it before. There are some variations, such as knowing the multiple situations where reloading an approach is appropriate, but this is the basic list.

1. Activate a Leg
2. Intercept a course or radial.
3. Loading airway when entry point is behind you
4. Switch or reload approaches.
5. Holding (creating a random hold in units that have that feature)
6. Setting up alternates in advance.

Thanks.

 

[wheaties]

...my COVID stay-at-home project was three videos comparing Avidyne and Garmin performing a discrete task. It's not meant as training for any of them (plenty of videos on that, especially from Avidyne), but just to show some of the differences. This is a link to the playlist.

3 more videos to watch. I'm having avionics work done and couldn't justify replacing my 430W. I desperately want to replace it with an IFD.