Alternator failure today.

Rgbeard

Rgbeard

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Phoenix, AZ and Ensenada, Mexico
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rgbeard
So, today was a great day. One of those rare one-in-a-million days that we actually have IMC conditions across the Imperial Valley. I was flying my wife, dogs and I from Phoenix to San Diego.

For those that don't know the Imperial Valley, it's the Arizona/California desert, it's not known for any capacity to hold atmospheric moisture, and is generally severe-clear.

Just about the time we crossed BZA the alternator quit. The idiot light illuminated, and the ammeter went to zero. We were at 8000 in IMC. I generally fly this flight a little higher but the headwinds were a factor, and the freezing level worked in tandem to keep us lower.

ATC was solid professional. I advised my condition, and continued to troubleshoot/validate my issue while still flying the plane. All non-essential electrical devices were turned off to keep the battery draw as low as possible.

Since going NORDO is a risk, we worked a clearance all the way to the IAF for the VOR-A approach to my intended airport, Brown Field (SDM). I use FlyQ for my charts/plates, and the iPad derives GPS data from my battery-operated hockey-puck GPS. I was advised that weather would improve suddenly once we crossed the mountains into the San Diego area, and could possibly take a visual. I said I'd rather have the VOR-A clearance, as it keeps me a little more procedural, and ATC agreed.

As L.A. Center handed me to SoCal (San Diego), the controller said: "I know you're at risk for going NORDO. If this happens, just know I'm watching you closely and I'll keep everyone out of your way while you fly the approach." Then later he said, "I've called ahead to Brown, and you're already cleared to land Rwy 26R." The VOR-A approach was run in weather that had, as was told to me, improved to VFR conditions.

The battery held for the remaining hour of flight time, so the alternator failure was really a non-event. Just enough of a thing to make the butt pucker a little. Being IMC at the time added to the fun.

I don't know if anyone from Yuma, L.A., or SoCal ATC reads these threads or not, but if you do, I want to thank you and the team for your professionalism and your service!

I also want to thank every flight instructor that I've had since ever, for making this event one that was handled with confidence, knowledge and a cautious respect for the situation.

SO, for the Monday-morning quarterbacks: No, I didn't choose another airport. I continued onward. ATC was good with it, we coordinated many steps ahead so my NORDO risk would be close to a non-event. I was happy to make it all the way to SDM. It's my second-home-airport, and has full service facilities, and also had my truck parked and waiting for us. It sure beat landing in Yuma, being hundreds of miles from home, on a weekend.
 
Sounds like a great job, all's well that ends well.
 
Suspect the regulator went south. Did you follow the checklist procedure?
 
Clip4 said:
Suspect the regulator went south. Did you follow the checklist procedure?
Click to expand...

Yes, and I'm proud to say that I did the required steps, and then followed with the checklist to make sure I did everything without overlooking something.

The checklist was, indeed, a CHECK list, instead of a DO list.

It's really a pretty simple routine. Two steps - check circuit breaker for the alternator field, and use the split-switch of the master switch to recycle the field.

Many years ago, I had a non-emergency, but still urgent situation in a rented Arrow. That time, I DID NOT use the checklist, and in fact overlooked the very item causing my troubles. I swore from that, that I'd never let the urgency of the situation lead me to ignore the checklists again.
 
Were you flying the Cirrus (with dual alternators and batteries)?
 
Well done bringing her home.
Pretty impressive job from ATC, especially when you consider the controllers probably won't get paid for a few more weeks. They're there because they're needed and the job has to get done, no matter what silly buggers congress is playing at. We do appreciate it.
 
What equipment would you have lost completely if the battery died? Just com radio?
 
I had a battery/alternator failure a little over a year ago but my battery went dead and I lost radios,flaps, fuel gauges and lights in a 172. The OP handled the situation similar to me in that he kept calm and stuck to his plan without second guessing himself. That’s a great job in a stressful situation! You did have it a bit easier than I did though as you still had a lot of items working on the plane!

Great job and keep flying safely!
 
Great job!

Have you considered keeping a hand-held radio in your flight bag as a backup? It won’t have great transmit range but can help when close to your destination, and it will have decent reception range.
 
Salty said:
What equipment would you have lost completely if the battery died? Just com radio?
Click to expand...

In addition to the radios, it would include the turn coordinator, landing gear hydraulic pump, landing gear indicator lights.
All of these things I am okay with losing.
Of course this was daytime so we add exterior lights and interior lights to the list for night considerations.

Challenged said:
Nicely done. I've been contemplating one of these to help with this situation: http://www.bandc.aero/standby-alternator-systems.aspx Not sure how involved the install is.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced there's space under the cowling! Haha!!
But seriously, you can only have so many redundancies in a GA aircraft. I'd sooner spend the money on standby vacuum, or a G5 conversion. The vacuum system has always struck me as the more fragile components of the infrastructure.

Half Fast said:
Great job!

Have you considered keeping a hand-held radio in your flight bag as a backup? It won’t have great transmit range but can help when close to your destination, and it will have decent reception range.
Click to expand...

I've never considered it before. And honestly, I'm not likely to. It falls in the category of something else to charge. However, I reserve the right to reflect on my experience and change my mind. Stay tuned.
 
You IFR guys should know what your battery life will be when the alternator quits. I’m a VFR guy but I’ve had a few occasions to find out. The battery will power avionics for a long time. My old rotating beacon has a power hog. It’s long gone as a result. Like they say on TV.... the more you know.
 
Something I hope to never experience. We have gone all LED in the plane but the 530/430 are still a big draw. Certainly interested to know how long everything would last on our newer battery - oh and probably best to get the gear down early and pull the CB.
 
Clip4 said:
Suspect the regulator went south. Did you follow the checklist procedure?
Click to expand...
I suspect the brushes wore out. They do that, which is why 500-hour brush inspections are recommended by manufacturers. An alternator in an airplane is running at close to its redline RPM all the time, unlike the alternator in your car that seems to run forever. It's brushes wear out a lot faster.
 
I had that happen to me on a flight from Tucson to Rockport Texas. Didn't know I lost the alternator until after I landed at a refueling stop. Had to charge the battery and fly it with everything turned off to Midland to get fixed. With just an ammeter in the plane there was no indication that anything was wrong until I announced to land and the radio sounded weird. Since then I've installed a volt/amp gauge with a warning light, new alternator and new voltage regulator.
 
Rgbeard said:
So, today was a great day. One of those rare one-in-a-million days that we actually have IMC conditions across the Imperial Valley. I was flying my wife, dogs and I from Phoenix to San Diego.

For those that don't know the Imperial Valley, it's the Arizona/California desert, it's not known for any capacity to hold atmospheric moisture, and is generally severe-clear.

Just about the time we crossed BZA the alternator quit. The idiot light illuminated, and the ammeter went to zero. We were at 8000 in IMC. I generally fly this flight a little higher but the headwinds were a factor, and the freezing level worked in tandem to keep us lower.

ATC was solid professional. I advised my condition, and continued to troubleshoot/validate my issue while still flying the plane. All non-essential electrical devices were turned off to keep the battery draw as low as possible.

Since going NORDO is a risk, we worked a clearance all the way to the IAF for the VOR-A approach to my intended airport, Brown Field (SDM). I use FlyQ for my charts/plates, and the iPad derives GPS data from my battery-operated hockey-puck GPS. I was advised that weather would improve suddenly once we crossed the mountains into the San Diego area, and could possibly take a visual. I said I'd rather have the VOR-A clearance, as it keeps me a little more procedural, and ATC agreed.

As L.A. Center handed me to SoCal (San Diego), the controller said: "I know you're at risk for going NORDO. If this happens, just know I'm watching you closely and I'll keep everyone out of your way while you fly the approach." Then later he said, "I've called ahead to Brown, and you're already cleared to land Rwy 26R." The VOR-A approach was run in weather that had, as was told to me, improved to VFR conditions.

The battery held for the remaining hour of flight time, so the alternator failure was really a non-event. Just enough of a thing to make the butt pucker a little. Being IMC at the time added to the fun.

I don't know if anyone from Yuma, L.A., or SoCal ATC reads these threads or not, but if you do, I want to thank you and the team for your professionalism and your service!

I also want to thank every flight instructor that I've had since ever, for making this event one that was handled with confidence, knowledge and a cautious respect for the situation.

SO, for the Monday-morning quarterbacks: No, I didn't choose another airport. I continued onward. ATC was good with it, we coordinated many steps ahead so my NORDO risk would be close to a non-event. I was happy to make it all the way to SDM. It's my second-home-airport, and has full service facilities, and also had my truck parked and waiting for us. It sure beat landing in Yuma, being hundreds of miles from home, on a weekend.
Click to expand...

Good job. Not so much Monday Morning Quarterbacking, just some questions and thoughts on the subject. Did you check the battery after landing to see it's state? That info could come in handy if this happens again. Did ATC ever tell you to acknowledge a transmission from them with just a couple clicks of the Mic or an Ident? If the Weather reports on the other side of the mountains in the San Diego area were not VFR and you would likely be in the goo all the way, would it have changed your decisions?
 
luvflyin said:
Good job. Not so much Monday Morning Quarterbacking, just some questions and thoughts on the subject. Did you check the battery after landing to see it's state? That info could come in handy if this happens again. Did ATC ever tell you to acknowledge a transmission from them with just a couple clicks of the Mic or an Ident? If the Weather reports on the other side of the mountains in the San Diego area were not VFR and you would likely be in the goo all the way, would it have changed your decisions?
Click to expand...

Battery-check? Nope. Tied her down, and started writing an email to the mechanic at Brown while my wife drove us home.

Click or Ident? Nope. We kept radio comm as normal.

Thick Soup? Possible. I knew from my prior wx briefing that KSDM was forecast to be well, well above minimums for the VOR-A, and the conversation with ATC after my situation developed indicated to me that it was even better than forecast. A diversion to Yuma on a Saturday might have looked better to me than it did at the time.
 
Dan Thomas said:
An alternator in an airplane is running at close to its redline RPM all the time, unlike the alternator in your car that seems to run forever. It's brushes wear out a lot faster.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about this. My car engine runs between 800RPM and 7000RPM but spends most of its time around 2700RPM. The airplane engine runs between 800RPM and 2700RPM but spends most of its time around 2450RPM.

But even then, the alternator runs at whatever speed the engineer decided as far as pulley ratios. Are you sure they decide on redline?
 
@Rgbeard - Thanks for the reminder that a standby alternator is on my list for 2019.

I have backup batteries for my EFIS, ADI, and 696. Since I have no mags, the current emergency procedure is take them off ship power, power off the 430 and Auto Pilot, then continue with only SL30, transponder, and ignition using the plane's battery. Approximately 1hr before it turns into a glider.

I think the standby ALT is worth a grand as I move into IFR flying. Won't change the procedure, but if I'm on standby alternator with the reduced loads I have a much better range. Could even leave the 430 powered up, but only testing will prove that out.
 
Rgbeard said:
So, today was a great day. One of those rare one-in-a-million days that we actually have IMC conditions across the Imperial Valley. I was flying my wife, dogs and I from Phoenix to San Diego.

For those that don't know the Imperial Valley, it's the Arizona/California desert, it's not known for any capacity to hold atmospheric moisture, and is generally severe-clear.

Just about the time we crossed BZA the alternator quit. The idiot light illuminated, and the ammeter went to zero. We were at 8000 in IMC. I generally fly this flight a little higher but the headwinds were a factor, and the freezing level worked in tandem to keep us lower.

ATC was solid professional. I advised my condition, and continued to troubleshoot/validate my issue while still flying the plane. All non-essential electrical devices were turned off to keep the battery draw as low as possible.

Since going NORDO is a risk, we worked a clearance all the way to the IAF for the VOR-A approach to my intended airport, Brown Field (SDM). I use FlyQ for my charts/plates, and the iPad derives GPS data from my battery-operated hockey-puck GPS. I was advised that weather would improve suddenly once we crossed the mountains into the San Diego area, and could possibly take a visual. I said I'd rather have the VOR-A clearance, as it keeps me a little more procedural, and ATC agreed.

As L.A. Center handed me to SoCal (San Diego), the controller said: "I know you're at risk for going NORDO. If this happens, just know I'm watching you closely and I'll keep everyone out of your way while you fly the approach." Then later he said, "I've called ahead to Brown, and you're already cleared to land Rwy 26R." The VOR-A approach was run in weather that had, as was told to me, improved to VFR conditions.

The battery held for the remaining hour of flight time, so the alternator failure was really a non-event. Just enough of a thing to make the butt pucker a little. Being IMC at the time added to the fun.

I don't know if anyone from Yuma, L.A., or SoCal ATC reads these threads or not, but if you do, I want to thank you and the team for your professionalism and your service!

I also want to thank every flight instructor that I've had since ever, for making this event one that was handled with confidence, knowledge and a cautious respect for the situation.

SO, for the Monday-morning quarterbacks: No, I didn't choose another airport. I continued onward. ATC was good with it, we coordinated many steps ahead so my NORDO risk would be close to a non-event. I was happy to make it all the way to SDM. It's my second-home-airport, and has full service facilities, and also had my truck parked and waiting for us. It sure beat landing in Yuma, being hundreds of miles from home, on a weekend.
Click to expand...

GOOD JOB,, pat self on back. :)
 
luvflyin said:
If the Weather reports on the other side of the mountains in the San Diego area were not VFR and you would likely be in the goo all the way, would it have changed your decisions?
Click to expand...
Boy I hope so.... would be hard to do a dead battery NORDO VOR approach.
 
Rgbeard said:
I've never considered it before. And honestly, I'm not likely to. It falls in the category of something else to charge. However, I reserve the right to reflect on my experience and change my mind. Stay tuned.
Click to expand...


Don’t get a rechargeable. You want the radio to use batteries that can be replaced easily and found in any convenience store.

I have a simple Yaesu that uses AAs. I pop in a fresh set every 6 months if the radio hasn’t been used and I have another fresh set of spare batteries in my bag. Also a headset adapter.

Can’t think of any good reason not to have it.
 
asicer said:
I'm not so sure about this. My car engine runs between 800RPM and 7000RPM but spends most of its time around 2700RPM. The airplane engine runs between 800RPM and 2700RPM but spends most of its time around 2450RPM.

But even then, the alternator runs at whatever speed the engineer decided as far as pulley ratios. Are you sure they decide on redline?
Click to expand...
Look sometime at the difference in pulley ratios on your car and on a Lycoming. Big, big difference. If the airplane's alternator had the car's drive ratio you'd never get max performance out of the alternator, and at lower RPM you might be discharging the battery. Think night approaches there. Lots of lights at work, low engine power.
 
Half Fast said:
Don’t get a rechargeable. You want the radio to use batteries that can be replaced easily and found in any convenience store.

I have a simple Yaesu that uses AAs. I pop in a fresh set every 6 months if the radio hasn’t been used and I have another fresh set of spare batteries in my bag. Also a headset adapter.

Can’t think of any good reason not to have it.
Click to expand...
I got one right after that 152 went down with radio failure at night and couldn’t turn runway lights on. Killed an ATP and his son.
Don’t take a loop without it. And yes to reg battery one. Rechargeable will let you down.
 
Good job managing the situation! I’ve had some electrical trouble in VFR before and even that wasn’t my favorite experience. Good work man.
 
Half Fast said:
Don’t get a rechargeable. You want the radio to use batteries that can be replaced easily and found in any convenience store.
Click to expand...

Either one will let you down if you don't replace batteries or recharge. Convenience stores aren't all that convenient when you're in the soup at 9000'. :eek:
 
Rgbeard said:
The battery held for the remaining hour of flight time
Click to expand...

You were lucky, that is not typical. You would have been advised to seek VMC conditions asap.
 
Half Fast said:
Great job!

Have you considered keeping a hand-held radio in your flight bag as a backup? It won’t have great transmit range but can help when close to your destination, and it will have decent reception range.
Click to expand...

I installed a dedicated antenna in the Sport for just that reason. I have had com issues in the past not fun going into class D without a com. I had a transponder let all the smoke out. Filled the cockpit with smoke. Shut down electrical system, NORDO in again class D.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Look sometime at the difference in pulley ratios on your car and on a Lycoming. Big, big difference. If the airplane's alternator had the car's drive ratio you'd never get max performance out of the alternator, and at lower RPM you might be discharging the battery. Think night approaches there. Lots of lights at work, low engine power.
Click to expand...
I guess it makes sense, but a lot less so since LED lighting started taking over.
 
I haven't really looked at the specs on airband HTs, but other HT that I have with nearby frequency coverage will only do their higher power output levels on the rechargeable packs. I think one of them will do 5W or 0.5W on the rechargeable only, and 0.1W, and 0.01W on either AA or rechargeable.

It might be a reason to keep the rechargeable battery charged, and have the second battery back ready to go with recent AA batteries.
 
-KLB- said:
I haven't really looked at the specs on airband HTs, but other HT that I have with nearby frequency coverage will only do their higher power output levels on the rechargeable packs. I think one of them will do 5W or 0.5W on the rechargeable only, and 0.1W, and 0.01W on either AA or rechargeable.

It might be a reason to keep the rechargeable battery charged, and have the second battery back ready to go with recent AA batteries.
Click to expand...


My amateur band HT is like that, but my air band HT is full power on the AAs. Both are Yaesu, btw.
 
asicer said:
I guess it makes sense, but a lot less so since LED lighting started taking over.
Click to expand...
Yes, with LEDs and modern digital radios the amperage has gone down considerably, but the pulley ratios were designed in a day when none of that stuff was available.

Glass panels use a lot more current than the old steam panel with a center stack did. We still need big, capable alternators.

The better answer would be a brushless alternator. Heavy trucks have used them for decades, but like almost anything else in aviation, it takes decades to trickle down to us. Even the Plane Power alternator is just a repurposed auto alternator and uses brushes.
 
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