Tesla Model 3 - Now I get the hype.

As interested as I might be in a nice semi-self-driving electric car, I can't justify a second car. I work from home so my big trips are every 1-2 weeks into the 'city'. But 1/3 of those trips involve hauling stuff for the house either to the dump/recycling or from the lumber yard so a pickup(or trailer) is 'necessary'. And of course the 500+ mile range on a tank of fuel is nice too.

If they had offered it I would have jumped at the chance to get adaptive cruise control, I keep thinking about upgrading, but it's not that common in the small pickup segment yet.
 
jesse said:
I suspect they will release some radically curved short-looking thing that looks more like BMW slept with an El Camino and ended up with a Tesla "pickup". That might sell fine to Honda Ridgeline owners. However, they're going to have a hard time capturing the mass truck market with something like that. 1970s, 1980s, to late 1990s all had pretty square shaped trucks. Ford tried to shake it up with a "modern curvy" F150 design in 1997, Chevy followed suit introducing the "silverado" with a more curved look in 1999. Truck buyers didn't respond well and wanted something with sharper lines. In 2004, Ford sharpened the lines up, Chevy in 2007. Both of them have continued to sharpen the lines with each new generation (GM about a generation behind Ford's lines each time, just look at google images).

It's very difficult to take pickup marketshare from the American big three. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc have all learned that lesson. We'll see what they do - I hope they come out with something that looks like and performs work like an American truck. That..I might be interested in. If it's some Cali yuppie bladerunner version of a pickup that can't tow 10,000 lbs. No thanks.

Ford has said that there will be a hybrid F150 in 2020 (chevy volt style). Four wheel drive with electric motors. A battery for some range. Plus a gas engine generator to give you whatever range you need. The cool thing is - they've said the truck will have enough electrical capacity to power your camper (or big job site tools). The above sounds like a winner to me. I'd love to not have to drag my heavy generator in/out of my truck bed each time we go camping. Being able to power the AC in my 34 ft travel trailer off my F150...tempting.
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I completely agree that they are likely going to come out with something that looks like a Ridgeline, which I wouldn't want.
 
chartbundle said:
If they had offered it I would have jumped at the chance to get adaptive cruise control, I keep thinking about upgrading, but it's not that common in the small pickup segment yet.
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I hate adaptive cruise control. After a short time, you end up behind the slowest car on the highway.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I hate adaptive cruise control. After a short time, you end up behind the slowest car on the highway.
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Even worse, my rental car to Dallas this week had adaptive cruise control. Problem is, the radar sensor was malfunctioning, so guess what? No cruise control for 3.5 hrs!! I was driving at 10pm, so adaptive cruise would have been pointless since there’s not much traffic to adapt too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ken Ibold said:
I hate adaptive cruise control. After a short time, you end up behind the slowest car on the highway.
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I like it so I don't have to keep passing people who think +-5 is a reasonable speed variation every time it's sunny or cloudy or dark, as it is now I tend to end up being the fastest car on the highway so I don't get stuck behind them and can just push the cruise control button. Also nice for following trucks at a sane distance until I can reach the next safe spot to pass.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Ah, but if it's a Tesla, it'll automatically go into the next land and pass them. :yes:
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"Next land"?
Sounds like Elon already has Teslas using the hyperloop. :cool: ;)

Curious about your views how the Volt you just took delivery of compares with the Model 3. Pluses, minuses, differences of note?
 
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tspear said:
They keep on going. The customer incentives are already going down and it has not affected sales. The emission credits have crashed in price and it has not had a material affect (so far).

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
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You mean they'll be able to borrow a couple billion a year forever?

While they will sell lots of Model 3s until the market is saturated and sales drop, the money to build the semi (announced production for sale in 2019) factory and hire the employees will cost four or five billion based on history. The pickup design and production line will run another three or four billion.

Convertible bonds are coming due, another four billion by 2021.
 
3393RP said:
You mean they'll be able to borrow a couple billion a year forever?

While they will sell lots of Model 3s until the market is saturated and sales drop, the money to build the semi (announced production for sale in 2019) factory and hire the employees will cost four or five billion based on history. The pickup design and production line will run another three or four billion.

Convertible bonds are coming due, another four billion by 2021.
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Well, so far I have read the doom and gloom about the next quarter or next round of bond payments for a two or three years.
In fact all sorts of pundits said they would not make it through this summer.yet they are still here and they are producing more Model 3 cars in a quarter then BMW, Benz and many others make of many models in a year.

So at this point, I will stay in the wait and see mode; which is caused more by the exodus of financial staff.

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I have a Tesla Model 3 for a daily driver. For me, the car has put fun back into driving again. Economically, I would have been better off keeping my 10 year old car running on the road, but I wanted a new car. I also have an airplane that is not economically viable as well. I could drive another vehicle for much less than I pay for all the expenses of flying. Why do I do these things that are not in my economical interest? Because I have worked for a very long time and have some monetary accumulation that I choose to spend on things I enjoy.

That being said, the Tesla is a fine piece of kit. I have taken it on a couple of trips (700 miles round-trip) and it was an easy and comfortable thing to do. I had to stop once each direction for about 20 minutes at a supercharger. The supercharger location was a restaurant that wanted business and paid for all the electric charges (and provided a free drink to Tesla owners). I went inside and purchased a sandwich, and by time I could eat it, I was notified by the Tesla app that the car was finished charging for the remainder of my trip. I would have much rather flown the airplane, but the weather was outside of my minimum requirements.

The car has a stated range of 310 miles, but when you drive on the freeway at 75-80 mph, the range does drop due to the increased wind resistance. I have found that at those speeds, I really have only about 280-290 miles per charge (75 kilowatts). Electricity in Texas is relatively inexpensive compared to other areas.

I don't think an EV is for everybody, nor do I think piloting a plane is for everybody either. I do see a time coming when EV's will be ubiquitous.
 
GRG55 said:
"Next land"?
Sounds like Elon already has Teslas using the hyperloop. :cool: ;)
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Lane! I meant lane! :rofl:

Curious about your views how the Volt you just took delivery of compares with the Model 3. Pluses, minuses, differences of note?
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Well, I wasn't kidding when I said the Tesla ruined me. That said, I'll give it a shot.

The obvious plus about the Volt is its price. The Tesla would have been a loan, but I paid cash for a used Volt.

I'm also back into trying to drive super-efficiently. I don't like having an engine running, even if I have one. Even though the Volt is the best PHEV out there (I don't really count the i3 REx as a PHEV) in terms of range, it's still only rated for 38 miles, and in the recent cold, I've been getting more like 30-35 miles on a full charge, mostly keeping the climate control in "Fan Only" or "Eco" modes unless I need to run the engine anyway. Unfortunately, I seem to tend to drive more like 40-50 miles total when I go somewhere, so I haven't been as gas-free as I'd like. I need to start finding places to plug in away from home again.

As far as Volt vs. Model 3: The Volt is WAY more sluggish in accelerator response, of course. The Volt's overall handling is pretty good, but still nowhere near the 3. The Volt beeps a lot more, and not really in helpful ways: The Tesla only beeped if you were about to hit something. The Volt beeps like crazy every time I put it into reverse, which is completely unhelpful. The reverse camera is OK, but it's a worse resolution being displayed on a much smaller display than the Tesla.

Controls: Holy cow, Chevy just vomited buttons. freaking. everywhere. There must be 80 of them just in the center stack, plus a dozen buttons and two wheels on the steering wheel, more on the left, some on the door, there's even buttons in the front of the door pocket! One of those is to release the charge port door, which confuses me. Is someone going to pour sugar into my battery or something? The Tesla's charge door can be opened from the touchscreen, from tapping on the door itself, or by pushing the button on the charge plug if using a Tesla charger (whether it's a portable or permanently installed one, or a Supercharger) and it closes itself a few seconds after you unplug.

The ergonomics of the 3 were also better. The controls were all within easy reach for me, holding the wheel left my arms in a comfortable position, and I never had to move anything more than my arm. As I'm tall, I tend to have to have my seat pretty far back, and the center stack buttons are at the limit of my arm's reach in the Volt. I have to either lean forward a bit or twist a bit to reach the touchscreen and some of the other buttons in the Volt, whereas the entire touchscreen and the few other controls in the 3 were all within easy reach.

The UI on the Tesla was much cleaner. The Volt has a million little things up in its display all the time, and it seems like most of them are given equal "weight". I find myself having to search for several seconds sometimes to find a particular indicator for a parameter I want to know in the Volt. In the 3, things were much cleaner and the most important things had the most emphasis on the screen. I'm also finding that the Volt doesn't have the ability to show some things I'm interested in, particularly engine RPM and temperature. Comparing to a more, uh, comparable vehicle, the Ford Fusion Energi I used to have had a much cleaner UI than the Volt, and it showed more too. It seems like the Volt's UI was designed to look cool when you check it out at the dealer, but real-world usability suffers.

I don't want this to come across as the Volt being a bad car. It's not. There are quite a few positive aspects to it, and it's a great stepping stone into EV driving and a great compromise vehicle for those who can't make a purely electric vehicle work for their mission. It's not even really a fair comparison. The Model 3 just simply out-classes the Volt in every way.

dnhill said:
I have a Tesla Model 3 for a daily driver.

The car has a stated range of 310 miles, but when you drive on the freeway at 75-80 mph, the range does drop due to the increased wind resistance. I have found that at those speeds, I really have only about 280-290 miles per charge (75 kilowatts).
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There's a definite "knee" in the drag curve around 80 mph, as well. I found this to be true of the i3, too. It's probably true of most any vehicle, we just don't notice it as much in a gasser because it's not giving us the detailed information on energy usage that EVs do.

I just noticed in the 3 that I was pulling my average above 300 Wh/mi when I went over 80 (probably about 85ish), while just parking the cruise or autopilot at 79 brought me back down into the 250 Wh/mi range.
 
Question for anyone. I see computer type touch screens in newer cars. What happens to them when the temperature is cold... We had a low of -2f the other day. Any chance of freeze damage?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Here's some pictures of the Volt's controls. There are a lot of them.

View attachment 69067 View attachment 69068 View attachment 69069 View attachment 69070
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57.2 lifetime! Someone hasn’t been charging much or they do a lot of long distance driving.;)

Yeah, lots of buttons but I’ve gotten used to it. I like having charge info and have certain display favs that I keep on the majority of the time. Climate hard keys suck. Definitely like dials for that function. I’ve read about lots of heat issues in EV. Mine had problems last year but has been working fine this year. Seems like the fix for 90% of the problems I’ve read, is to disconnect the 12V and connect it back up.

Quiet ride until you get either the front brake / suspension rattle or the creaking noise from the back axile in turns. Had a front wheel bearing go recently also.

Overall like the car. I’m not a Volt fanatic like most of the people on the FB page. It has its flaws but about $1.20 to drive 62 miles to / from work 7 days in a row, can’t be beat. Still waiting on the right EV before I pull the trigger on a new car. Tesla ain’t it..yet.
 
Zeldman said:
Question for anyone. I see computer type touch screens in newer cars. What happens to them when the temperature is cold... We had a low of -2f the other day. Any chance of freeze damage?
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They must have thought of that. It's been below freezing up here a lot recently :(. Neither the Model 3 nor the Volt has had any problems with it. In fact, neither have any of my several recent cars that had LCD touchscreens (BMW i3, Ford Fusion, Ford Edge).

Velocity173 said:
57.2 lifetime! Someone hasn’t been charging much or they do a lot of long distance driving.;)
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Yeah, no kidding. But they did put 92,000 miles on it in ~5-6 years, so they did a lot of driving in it.

My average so far is about 75, and that's including the 125-mile trip home.

I’ve read about lots of heat issues in EV. Mine had problems last year but has been working fine this year.
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You mean, getting it to heat? Or having problems with the battery overheating?

tspear said:
I guess it runs MS Windows.
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That can be more true than you know. My Fusion had a "Powered by Microsoft" badge on the center console (Ford Sync 2 was made by Microsoft). It did once crash hard, but I pulled over, turned the car off and back on and it was fine. Very Microsofty for sure. Now, Ford Sync 3 was done by RIM (yes, the Blackberry people). Of course, at this point, RIM is probably just thankful to have something to do at all besides going out of business entirely...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
They must have thought of that. It's been below freezing up here a lot recently :(. Neither the Model 3 nor the Volt has had any problems with it. In fact, neither have any of my several recent cars that had LCD touchscreens (BMW i3, Ford Fusion, Ford Edge).
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Yeah, thinking, the touch screens in some planes I have flown do just fine in the cold, so it shouldn't be a problem for cars.

While driving around running errands today, I was thinking of what would meet my daily needs. A small truck, something the size of a Toyota or F-150 with a electric or even hybrid would be a perfect fit for me. I don't usually carry anything heavy, usually what I get is bulky so a small electric truck to run around town would probably work for me. It sure would have worked today. Only problem is it will have to cost much less than my house. The 50-60K more for electric over the gas or diesel would buy a lot of fuel. And again, I would still need my GMC 2500 Duramax for the heavy stuff I do a couple times a week so now I would have the two vehicle dilemma.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
They must have thought of that. It's been below freezing up here a lot recently :(. Neither the Model 3 nor the Volt has had any problems with it. In fact, neither have any of my several recent cars that had LCD touchscreens (BMW i3, Ford Fusion, Ford Edge).



Yeah, no kidding. But they did put 92,000 miles on it in ~5-6 years, so they did a lot of driving in it.

My average so far is about 75, and that's including the 125-mile trip home.



You mean, getting it to heat? Or having problems with the battery overheating?



That can be more true than you know. My Fusion had a "Powered by Microsoft" badge on the center console (Ford Sync 2 was made by Microsoft). It did once crash hard, but I pulled over, turned the car off and back on and it was fine. Very Microsofty for sure. Now, Ford Sync 3 was done by RIM (yes, the Blackberry people). Of course, at this point, RIM is probably just thankful to have something to do at all besides going out of business entirely...
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Getting heat. I believe on EV it’s a simple electric resistance heater and on ICE it uses heat from the engine. Last winter mine only got heat in ICE and EV it wouldn’t work. For some reason this year I haven’t had problems getting heat while in EV. Guess it fixed itself.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The controls were all within easy reach for me, holding the wheel left my arms in a comfortable position, and I never had to move anything more than my arm. As I'm tall, I tend to have to have my seat pretty far back, and the center stack buttons are at the limit of my arm's reach in the Volt. I have to either lean forward a bit or twist a bit to reach the touchscreen and some of the other buttons in the Volt, whereas the entire touchscreen and the few other controls in the 3 were all within easy reach.
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This.

When I first saw the Model 3 launch I thought that the monitor was goofy looking. Up to the point of release I just thought "surely it's a temporary thing, they're not actually going to release like that". But they did, and I wasn't enthused about it, but my wife still wanted the Model 3, so we went ahead with the order.

Went to go pick it up, and then I start using it, and I was like... Ahh!!! I get it it now!

I now by FAR prefer her Model 3 display to my Model S's display. With the Model S I always have to reach forward to use the touch screen, on the Model 3 everything is within arm's reach. So now I made a total 180 on that - I don't want to upgrade my Model S until they have a similar detached touch panel in there.

Don't get me wrong - I still think the Model S looks better, but usability-wise the Model 3 beats it hands down as far as the touch screen is concerned.
 
The touch screen just looks out of place because it's so big and it's integration into the dash looks like an afterthought. If it were blended as a part of the dash panel it wouldn't look like it was protruding into the cabin. Mercedes, Honda, and others have a similar look which I just don't get. Inset the screen into the dash, don't just bolt it on the front.
 
Velocity173 said:
Getting heat. I believe on EV it’s a simple electric resistance heater and on ICE it uses heat from the engine. Last winter mine only got heat in ICE and EV it wouldn’t work. For some reason this year I haven’t had problems getting heat while in EV. Guess it fixed itself.
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Interesting.

EVs use different methods of heating. Some are purely resistive, some use a heat pump (like running the A/C in reverse), and of course hybrids often combine resistive and engine heating. After all, 2/3 or more of the energy in the gasoline the car burns is lost to waste heat, so being able to capture some of that and use it for something useful is a good thing.

I don't know much about the Volt's heating system yet. I've found it has better settings available on the touchscreen for energy savings - Getting "fan only" from the Fusion Energi involved some obscure machinations. I suspect it's something like the Fusion's system, though, where they took a coolant loop through a heater core like a regular car and added the resistive heating to that. That way, they could both heat the cabin without the engine running, and help the engine to heat up faster.

SoonerAviator said:
The touch screen just looks out of place because it's so big and it's integration into the dash looks like an afterthought.
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Looks like an afterthought, but now that I've used it, they were clearly thinking about that from the beginning. It's so much easier to use the way it is than it would be if it were sunk into the dash.

If it were blended as a part of the dash panel it wouldn't look like it was protruding into the cabin. Mercedes, Honda, and others have a similar look which I just don't get. Inset the screen into the dash, don't just bolt it on the front.
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That just makes it harder to reach AND harder to see. I agree that it physically would look better from outside the car, but when you're in the driver's seat, it's placed pretty much perfectly.
 
So, here's a bunch of pictures... Mostly of the touchscreen, since there's plenty of better pictures than I'll be able to take of the car itself plastered all over the Internet.

First of all here's what it looks like from the driver's perspective... I took this to try to show a little better what it looks like to have the speedometer not centered inside the steering wheel, and how it all looks put together:

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Here's what it looks like when you're on Autopilot - You can see the other cars are on the screen as well:
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Every so often while you're on autopilot, it nags you to make sure you're paying attention. The nag starts like this:
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If you don't respond in a couple of seconds, it progresses to pulsing the speedometer blue/white:
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If you still don't respond, it will beep once to give you one last quick chance, and then it will go nuts, with a warning horn and a steering wheel in red warning you to take over immediately, at which point you get sent to the penalty box: No more autopilot for this drive! If you still don't respond, I've heard it will actually pull you over safely and call 911 but I didn't feel like testing that out. ;)

Here's what it looks like when you're using the new Navigate on Autopilot feature and it wants to switch lanes for you:
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Here's what the screen looks like at night. Autopilot is on (blue steering wheel icon and the circle with the max speed set), but sitting at a stop light. (You can see all the surrounding cars on the left side of the screen:)
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"apply light force to steering wheel" ... how Star War-ish ...
 
OK, more pictures of the screen. I tried to get all of the preferences that you can choose on the screen.
 

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I must admit, I like some of the humor here... Like the aggressiveness of lane changes being Mild, Average, or Mad Max. :rofl:
 

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I did not take pictures of the easter eggs that are available, which include:

1) Rainbow Road: For you Mario Kart/SNL lovers, you can set it so that when you're on autopilot, the screen shows you on the Rainbow Road from Mario Kart, and the stereo plays the famous More Cowbell skit from SNL.

2) Santa mode: Similar, except it shows your car as a sleigh with Santa in it and snow coming down. (I forgot what it plays in this mode.)

3) Atari mode: Several classic Atari games like Lunar Lander can be played using the thumbwheels on the steering wheel. They're supposed to add Pole Position in the next update, and it'll be controlled by the car's actual wheel and pedals! (Yes, you have to be parked for this.)

4) Mars mode: The Google Maps navigation will be replaced with the surface of Mars, and the car will show up as a Mars rover.

5) Drawing mode: Lets you draw on the screen, and save and even publish your drawings (not sure where that goes, tho).
 
Salty said:
Pretend like this isn’t a negative if you want, but it is. The fanboy criticism occurs when people see others not being honest about the downsides of their favorite new toy.
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Taking a relatively minor thing and pretending like it’s the end of the world looks worse (imho) than a fan not being bothered by it.

It is a negative. How much depends on your opinion. If this is the one single thing that stops you from buying a Tesla, my advice would be to buy the car and get a rental twice a year when the 30 minute stop is unacceptable. It is a great car.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Looks like an afterthought, but now that I've used it, they were clearly thinking about that from the beginning. It's so much easier to use the way it is than it would be if it were sunk into the dash.

That just makes it harder to reach AND harder to see. I agree that it physically would look better from outside the car, but when you're in the driver's seat, it's placed pretty much perfectly.
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So why not redesign the dash so the the center portion extends toward the driver another two inches? That brings the screen closer and still allows the screen to sit flush? I just think it looks like out of place from an automotive interior-design standpoint. They used that concept in the Model S and it appears to work well . . .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
SoonerAviator said:
So why not redesign the dash so the the center portion extends toward the driver another two inches? That brings the screen closer and still allows the screen to sit flush? I just think it looks like out of place from an automotive interior-design standpoint. They used that concept in the Model S and it appears to work well . . .
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No, it doesn't. The Model 3 design is a lot more usable than the Model S. See my post:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...now-i-get-the-hype.114912/page-3#post-2631614

It doesn't just need an inch or two extra to be usable. It needs the better part of a foot, and the Model 3 has that.
 
deonb said:
No, it doesn't. The Model 3 design is a lot more usable than the Model S. See my post:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...now-i-get-the-hype.114912/page-3#post-2631614

It doesn't just need an inch or two extra to be usable. It needs the better part of a foot, and the Model 3 has that.
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But it has no flow with the rest of the interior. It sticks out like a sore thumb. It’s like two different types of paintings in one frame. In the S, it looks elegant. Like a car design should be. It the 3, it looks cheap, like they were trying to save money in order to produce a $35K EV.
 
Velocity173 said:
But it has no flow with the rest of the interior. It sticks out like a sore thumb. It’s like two different types of paintings in one frame. In the S, it looks elegant. Like a car design should be. It the 3, it looks cheap, like they were trying to save money in order to produce a $35K EV.
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It doesn't actually look or feel that cheap when you're behind the wheel. I agree it looks cheap from the side and especially on photos.

Not sure how else one would go about to design that - I really want the Model S display to also come out as far out as that, but it would be nice not to be on a pedestal as with the Model 3. But if you protrude the whole dash out to engulf a display that's in that position, it would also look goofy.

I certainly don't think it should be a flip-up or any kind of movable display either. The Model 3 display is rock solid, there isn't a hair of give on it when you touch it.
 
deonb said:
It doesn't actually look or feel that cheap when you're behind the wheel. I agree it looks cheap from the side and especially on photos.

Not sure how else one would go about to design that - I really want the Model S display to also come out as far out as that, but it would be nice not to be on a pedestal as with the Model 3. But if you protrude the whole dash out to engulf a display that's in that position, it would also look goofy.

I certainly don't think it should be a flip-up or any kind of movable display either. The Model 3 display is rock solid, there isn't a hair of give on it when you touch it.
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What’s the issue with the S screen? Is it too far away to read or is it hard to reach?
 
GeorgeC said:
What, no super pursuit mode?
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The Performance Model 3 does have "track mode" now... It's really cool what they've been able to do with that, and how it works. Alas, if I ever get a Performance model, it will most certainly be used. $$$
 
Velocity173 said:
What’s the issue with the S screen? Is it too far away to read or is it hard to reach?
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Hard to reach. I have to lean forward every time to touch a button.

It’s easy enough to read though - nice uncluttered, big UI. Just hard to interact with from a far back seat position.

Mind you - I have the same issue with my F350 display, so it’s not like the Model S is worse than the average car - just that the Model 3 is a lot better in this aspect.

The thing I dislike most about the Model 3 that the Model S got right is that cruise control/autopilot stalk is on the right side of the steering wheel on the Model 3. That’s just dumb from an ergonomics perspective - it needs to be on the hand that you steer with most and I don’t know anybody for who that is the right hand (on a LHS drive vehicle).
 
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