"Mild ADD"

Bruce he has been denied for any type of medical. He's really not a bad person, but you're probably correct in that he's used to getting his way. Last I heard from him he said he's off the medication and might try after 90 days again. I think it's over but can't fault him for being desperate enough to keep trying.
See, he's got an antidepressive too and that's not a "throw my meds away and I'm healed" kinda deal.... :(
 
I believe Martha Stewart was a criminal case from the beginning. Isn’t an FAA enforcement action regulatory? If so, you can fight it as an administrative action (civil) and o the appellate court if needed. Fairly different procedures and downside risks.

Nonetheless, he should definitely be getting expert advice on the medical aspects rather than winging it.

He’s not willing to spend “small” money to retain medical assistance from a professional, no way he’s going to spend the kind of money he’ll need to spend to appeal and stand before an Administrative Law Judge who is usually on the FAA’s side.

And that’s just the possible regulatory violation. It doesn’t address the medical denial at all. That’s not an appealable thing AFAIK.
 
don't we all have mild ADD? wait no, we have OCD

I think it all depends on what ‘health professionals’ we’ve visited over the years. Some have their ‘pet diagnosis’, parental steering influences also.

Oh the good ole days, when a young boy could have a bit of energy to burn off, without having to be put on meds.
 
See, he's got an antidepressive too and that's not a "throw my meds away and I'm healed" kinda deal.... :(

Not disagreeing Bruce, you certainly know more about these cases than I ever will. I understand what you're saying, he still has the condition and going off medications won't change anything. Regardless, one of my other SPs contacted you and you helped him, and I sure appreciate it. I now screen new students about medical conditions before they get too deep into training. You're a great service to aviation Doc, thanks for that.
 
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I think it all depends on what ‘health professionals’ we’ve visited over the years. Some have their ‘pet diagnosis’, parental steering influences also.

Oh the good ole days, when a young boy could have a bit of energy to burn off, without having to be put on meds.

Yup. Years ago my son (80s) was given a scrip for Ritalin and I told the Dr no way was my son going on that, and gave him the scrip back right there. It's too automatic as you implied sourdough.
 
And that’s just the possible regulatory violation. It doesn’t address the medical denial at all. That’s not an appealable thing AFAIK.

I think there must be some type of appeal, because remember John King ended up in front of the NTSB on his medical and that is the organization which handles the FAA regulatory cases ultimately.
 
I still wonder what happened between the time I was a kid and today that caused ADD, ADHD, etc, etc to go from pretty much nonexistent to near epidemic proportions.
 
I still wonder what happened between the time I was a kid and today that caused ADD, ADHD, etc, etc to go from pretty much nonexistent to near epidemic proportions.

There are kids do have legitimate issues that need medical help, but for the rest: Not enough unstructured, minimally or unsupervised play time outdoors. At school: massive reduction in recess and PE time. Any time my kids go more than a day or two without getting at least an hour of good physical activity per day, I notice a behavioral change. For my more active kid, his best-behaved weeks are when he does summer outdoor/sports camps and is on the move for 3-4 hours per day. Some kids just have a lot of natural energy, and it needs an outlet.
 
I think there must be some type of appeal, because remember John King ended up in front of the NTSB on his medical and that is the organization which handles the FAA regulatory cases ultimately.
Yes there is an appeal process, but if you recall the details of King's case, it's pretty strong evidence that winning the appeal is nearly impossible. And King had at least two doctors on his side, but they still denied him once (or was it twice?) before grudgingly approving him for 2-pilot ops.

It's still not been spelled out why the OP's student is having certificate action taken against him - which is fine, no reason to disclose that, but it kind of makes the whole idea of trying again after going off the meds for 90 days seem rather insane IMO. The first thing to do is get out from under the regulatory action, then maybe go through the neuropsych testing to try to get the diagnoses overturned, if he's still determined to fly.

Or, as others have said, gliders - even motor gliders - are still an option.
 
Not really. The denial letter (certified return receipt) will include a sentence that he is not qualified to operate ANY sort of aircraft, and so he will have reason to know (61.53).

Then if he operates it's between he and the courts.
 
I still wonder what happened between the time I was a kid and today that caused ADD, ADHD, etc, etc to go from pretty much nonexistent to near epidemic proportions.
Title 9. The previous admin decided that every school dist. Would recieve $6k per kid per year for special needs. Thus, the districts find ADD “profitable”
 
Not really. The denial letter (certified return receipt) will include a sentence that he is not qualified to operate ANY sort of aircraft, and so he will have reason to know (61.53).

Then if he operates it's between he and the courts.
Interesting. It sounds like that would preclude Part 103 ops as well. Is this new wording or has it always been this way (denial letters)?
 
Title 9. The previous admin decided that every school dist. Would recieve $6k per kid per year for special needs. Thus, the districts find ADD “profitable”
The overdiagnosis of ADD way predates Obama. And frankly, the statement is laughable, if you spent any time dealing with "exceptional students." Title IX funds are just a feather in the wind.
 
I still wonder what happened between the time I was a kid and today that caused ADD, ADHD, etc, etc to go from pretty much nonexistent to near epidemic proportions.

Prior to 1975 in the US, 80% of kids with any sort of disability were not educated in public schools, often because they were unwelcome and were kicked out as uneducable. IDEA in 1975 made it the obligation of public school systems to provide a free, appropriate public education to all otherwise eligible children. It wasn’t until the 90s that the administrative code and then subsequently the implementation of 2004’s IDEIA that diagnosis really became a solid mechanism to force public educators to accommodate children with all sorts of disabilities and limitations.

I believe that today’s increase in diagnosis is directly influenced by schools kicking out deaf and blind kids prior to ‘75 and could have been prevented by school and society simply learning to accommodate same.
 
Apparently it is not the drug, but diagnosis it implies. He will need to prove he doesn’t have ADD by reversing the diagnosis. Dr. Bruce is probably his best bet.

If it’s not the drug but the diagnosis, does that mean I can take adderall or Ritalin as an appetite suppressant??
 
I still wonder what happened between the time I was a kid and today that caused ADD, ADHD, etc, etc to go from pretty much nonexistent to near epidemic proportions.
Trial-and-error diagnosis that saves time, coupled with drug companies pushing product and parents DEMANDING pills, have turned some docs into Pez dispensers. And if the pills cause a side effect? Many will then prescribe more pills rather than take the time to properly diagnose & try alternate medications that might not have the same toxicity. And some of that is driven by the insurance carriers and regulations. IMHO, the whole industry needs be reinvented. Not going to happen because the sheer amount of $$$ at play.

(And to be clear, no, not all docs are this way - most are very good and want to do the right thing, but some take the easy way and cram way too many patients in a day just to make a buck. When the standard fee for a visit is $100, but the doc only gets $48 ($30 copay from patient, $18 from insurance), then that difference is made up somehow. I am NOT arguing for government single payer because in my experience Medicare pays less).
 
If it’s not the drug but the diagnosis, does that mean I can take adderall or Ritalin as an appetite suppressant??
It means that the FAA considers the prescription was issued for one valid reason only and therefore implies an underlying diagnosis made by the issuing physician and no, that diagnosis isn't having too much appetite. I suppose you could go back to the issuing physician and somehow convince them to tell the FAA that they issued the prescription for a non-sanctioned use. I am sure they will cooperate.

If that doesn't work, the more standard approach is to undergo testing to show that the original diagnosis was incorrect.
 
Yup. Years ago my son (80s) was given a scrip for Ritalin and I told the Dr no way was my son going on that, and gave him the scrip back right there. It's too automatic as you implied sourdough.

Dude, I knew you were old, but you've got a son who was in his 80s several years ago? Wow!!! ;)
 
Either one is basically a BS diagnosis or at least highly subjective. Every behavior is a diagnosis waiting to happen with a drug ready to be prescribed.
Yep. Notice things are becoming "spectrum disorders" all of the sudden? "Spectrum disorder" = more diagnoses = more "patients" = more drugs = more money. I was on the common cold spectrum this winter.
 
Well, Autism is a spectrum disorder because the overall definition is broad. I've not heard any serious (medical research) attempt to make ADD/ADHD into a spectrum of disorders. Most of that drivel comes from people attempting to diagnose things as ADD that are not. Johnny getting bored in school is not ADD. Johnny acting up in school is not ADD. Johnny not listening to his parents is not ADD. ADD is a sensory disorder. It takes more than your pediatrician listening to mommy's complaint about Johnny for a proper diagnosis. It's egregious that practitioners throw Ritalin at the kids "just to see if it helps." That's not a proper diagnostic tool. This is right up there with the adult gps that throw SSRIs at patients "just to see if it helps" without a proper depression (or other psych) diagnosis.
 
Well, Autism is a spectrum disorder because the overall definition is broad. I've not heard any serious (medical research) attempt to make ADD/ADHD into a spectrum of disorders.

FAA’s test battery for ADD/ADHD is a spectrum test I believe. Have to get a certain score for the SI. AFAIK it’s been a spectrum thing for a long time. Bruce would know for sure. Whether that’s backed by solid research, I wouldn’t have a clue. It’s just how the testing is done.
 
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