International Air Rally (Caribbean)

Funny how they have no rating or speed requirements stated. What if a guy with a paper 140 goes, does everyone have to throttle back?
 
That doesn't look right. Utilizing Grand Turk as the RON on the first leg out the gate might be a problem already, seeing how it has no fuel and last I checked there's still that need to go get hung by the ankles and shaken for all the $$$ you got over at Provo as a POE. Last I heard over $300 just for a technical(fuel) stop, more if outside M-F 0730-1630. I would expect a bona fide Caribbean "tour organizers" to know that from the get go....
 
They've done this numerous times before. One of our club members participated with his Meridian last year. They group the airplane's according to speed and range. He said it was a lot of fun, they are well organized, and he met a lot of interesting flying folks.
 
hindsight2020 said:
That doesn't look right. Utilizing Grand Turk as the RON on the first leg out the gate might be a problem already, seeing how it has no fuel and last I checked there's still that need to go get hung by the ankles and shaken for all the $$$ you got over at Provo as a POE. Last I heard over $300 just for a technical(fuel) stop, more if outside M-F 0730-1630. I would expect a bona fide Caribbean "tour organizers" to know that from the get go....
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If you look at the detailed brochure, it says that thay have arranged 100LL for this trip there and: "NOTE: MBGT does not have the same HIGH FEE structure as MBPV. There will be no need for stopping in Provo this year."

GRG55 said:
They've done this numerous times before. One of our club members participated with his Meridian last year. They group the airplane's according to speed and range. He said it was a lot of fun, they are well organized, and he met a lot of interesting flying folks.
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Did most of the participants have Meridian-class airplanes? I'd be doing this in a Dakota.
 
man this looks awesome. would be a great thing to do the first year I own the plane (hopefully late 2018).

that said, i wonder if it's adult only or you could bring kids. it would be awesome if you could do kids (for a discount, since they'd be in the room with you)
 
I had been in e-mail contact back-and-forth yesterday and today and was asking about the group events, types of people that go (80% are repeat participants), types of aircraft participating (no point in bringing a Dakota to a TBM & Meridian thing) insurance and how it all worked.

The organizer seems to think I ask too many questions and told me that our (wife and I) participation is not welcome. She said "Insurance is not an issue for anyone on this rally." I get the impression that it is a "good 'ol boys network". :(

Looks fun, but unless they have a change of heart, we won't be going.
 
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DesertNomad said:
I had been in e-mail contact back-and-forth yesterday and today and was asking about the group events, types of people that go (80% are repeat participants), types of aircraft participating (no point in bringing a Dakota to a TBM & Meridian thing) insurance and how it all worked.

The organizer seems to think I ask too many questions and told me that our (wife and I) participation is not welcome. She said "Insurance is not an issue for anyone on this rally." I get the impression that it is a "good 'ol boys network". :(

Looks fun, but unless they have a change of heart, we won't be going.
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Sorry to hear that. perhaps there is just a personality mismatch. I did like the agenda, though it's on the long side for working folks at 18 days (plus to/from Florida).

i'd still like to do something like this in the next couple of years.
 
DesertNomad said:
I had been in e-mail contact back-and-forth yesterday and today and was asking about the group events, types of people that go (80% are repeat participants), types of aircraft participating (no point in bringing a Dakota to a TBM & Meridian thing) insurance and how it all worked.

The organizer seems to think I ask too many questions and told me that our (wife and I) participation is not welcome. She said "Insurance is not an issue for anyone on this rally." I get the impression that it is a "good 'ol boys network". :(

Looks fun, but unless they have a change of heart, we won't be going.
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I agree with your assessment. Sounds like a do it an act and ask questions/complain later kind of group.
 
MIFlyer said:
Sorry to hear that. perhaps there is just a personality mismatch. I did like the agenda, though it's on the long side for working folks at 18 days (plus to/from Florida).

i'd still like to do something like this in the next couple of years.
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Perhaps a personality mismatch. They seem to have mostly repeat participants and so I think "everybody knows everybody" since they've been doing it for years. I also asked if we would have any free time on our own or if everyone is expected to do everything as a group. There are 15 planes so probably 30-45 people. I think they didn't like me even asking about doing something outside the group along the way.

Rather disappointed since this morning I cancelled airline tickets for a two-month holiday in Vietnam and Indonesia (the volcano in Bali made it an easy call) so I could do this trip and then this evening I was told that I was not welcome.
 
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Sorry Nomad. I do wonder if it's meant to be private, but they just don't really advertise it as such. would be fun to put something like this together, perhaps a 10 day version
 
MIFlyer said:
Sorry Nomad. I do wonder if it's meant to be private, but they just don't really advertise it as such. would be fun to put something like this together, perhaps a 10 day version
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They told me of the 15 planes going, only one is a first-timer, so that is a real possibility.

They also seemed to think it was normal to have worldwide insurance coverage and that I was a pain because my insurance only covers N. America and the West Indies... so I had to get Colombia added ($500 per my broker) and figure out about a possible emergency diversion to Venezuela... my broker was still working on that when the lady organizing the trip told me not to bother as I was not welcome.

They said "Insurance is not an issue for anyone on this rally".

Well it is for me. I'm not taking my airplane anywhere where my coverage is in doubt.
 
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DesertNomad said:
Did most of the participants have Meridian-class airplanes? I'd be doing this in a Dakota.
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No, not at all.
My friend said there was a wide variety of airplane's, but no Piper Cubs. ;)

Your plane should be plenty capable.

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience with them. Maybe they are already booked up for the next excursion. They do more than just a Caribbean circuit, so the repeat participants may not have done this route before, but one of their other excursions? I think they do a western North America and an Eastern North America route as well. The woman representative I spoke with a couple of years ago was French, and she behaved, well...French.
 
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Sounds like they have a good thing going... and enough people committed to make it work without needing to recruit more.

I’ve considered these tours before. On one hand I know that ‘staying with the group’ is kind of the whole point and we wouldn’t enjoy it otherwise. On the other hand we enjoy being on our own and have found exploring the Caribbean very rewarding, so there’s that.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
GRG55 said:
The woman representative I spoke with a couple of years ago was French, and she behaved, well...French.
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Exactly.

Bill Watson said:
I’ve considered these tours before. On one hand I know that ‘staying with the group’ is kind of the whole point and we wouldn’t enjoy it otherwise. On the other hand we enjoy being on our own and have found exploring the Caribbean very rewarding, so there’s that.
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Yeah. We've been to more than 90 countries independently (though not with the airplane). We'll just wing it on our own, though a less ambitious trip. Baja Bush PIlots and Caribbean Sky Tours offer enough guidance.
 
I think something a little less would be nice.. you know for us small people? I know there are groups that go to the Bahamas but would be cool to have say maybe a 5 day to Mexico or a few islands... you know for us working folks with Cherokees :) POA island hopping sounds amazing!
 
I received an email today with an entirely different tone, so perhaps it will work out after all. Need to discuss it with my co-pilot and see what she thinks. :)
 
Indiana_Pilot said:
I think something a little less would be nice.. you know for us small people? I know there are groups that go to the Bahamas but would be cool to have say maybe a 5 day to Mexico or a few islands... you know for us working folks with Cherokees :) POA island hopping sounds amazing!
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POA needs a Bamaha rally...
 
Keep us posted. I´d love to do this in a couple of years
 
DesertNomad said:
That's Jim Parker's site. He arranged our flight to Cuba last year. Really a great guy.
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That's nice to know... It looks like they do three trips a year which would give multiple options or maybe just do them all...:goofy:
 
DesertNomad said:
I had been in e-mail contact back-and-forth yesterday and today and was asking about the group events, types of people that go (80% are repeat participants), types of aircraft participating (no point in bringing a Dakota to a TBM & Meridian thing) insurance and how it all worked.

The organizer seems to think I ask too many questions and told me that our (wife and I) participation is not welcome...
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Almost certainly Catherine. She can be quite obnoxious when things are not exactly the way she wants them. Definitely not a sales personality.
 
airdale said:
Almost certainly Catherine. She can be quite obnoxious when things are not exactly the way she wants them. Definitely not a sales personality.
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Yup. That's her. Have you done a trip with her group? I'm a bit worried about that sort of attitude for 18 days.
 
airdale said:
Almost certainly Catherine. She can be quite obnoxious when things are not exactly the way she wants them. Definitely not a sales personality.
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I've dealt with her several times...always difficult.
 
MichiPilot said:
I've dealt with her several times...always difficult.
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Did you go on one of her trips? Just trying to chat with someone who has direct experience. The destinations look great, but our personalities may not mesh well.
 
I'm going on the Around-the-Caribbean trip with International Air Rally. This will be my 4th Air Rally trip and its been a lot of fun. I'm flying a 1966 Mooney at 120knots. Lots of planes at different speeds. We don't try to stay together in flight. We just try to arrive near the same time at the destination. Air Rally is also preparing a trip from Winnipeg to Inuvit Canada in August. I'll likely go on that one too. It's been a good experience for me every time.
 
This trip looks amazing. Definitely on the bucket list. Look forward to your reviews. What is longest exposure over water?
 
Vincent dunn said:
I'm flying a 1966 Mooney at 120knots.
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Why? That should be a 140 knot ship. Heck, mine's an unmodified '62 and I can flight plan that. Sorry to be picky, but I never met anyone who bought a Mooney to fly slow.

Sounds like a cool trip, but a long time to be away. If the boss lady is French she'd get along with Mrs. Steingar just fine.
 
ActiveAir said:
This trip looks amazing. Definitely on the bucket list. Look forward to your reviews. What is longest exposure over water?
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Longest exposure over water is hard to figure. The Caribbean chain includes probably hundreds of very small, uninhabited islets that would provide a desert island existence until rescue. The Air Rally also provides a glareshield GPS box that allows the organizers to track the progress of each plane in real time. If you don't arrive they know exactly where to look for you. We also use an in-air frequency to share wind and position information. And you can be in contact with ATC almost all the time.
 
steingar said:
Why? That should be a 140 knot ship. Heck, mine's an unmodified '62 and I can flight plan that. Sorry to be picky, but I never met anyone who bought a Mooney to fly slow.

Sounds like a cool trip, but a long time to be away. If the boss lady is French she'd get along with Mrs. Steingar just fine.
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I fly my Mooney at 21" of MP and 2300 RPM so that's what it produces on 6.5-7.0 GPH. Sure, I could push it harder but its 200 hrs over TBO now and still running great. I'd like to keep it that way for a while longer.
 
Vincent dunn said:
I fly my Mooney at 21" of MP and 2300 RPM so that's what it produces on 6.5-7.0 GPH. Sure, I could push it harder but its 200 hrs over TBO now and still running great. I'd like to keep it that way for a while longer.
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I do that if I'm just loafing around. But at most of the altitudes I fly 23 squared gives me 140 knots at 75% power burning about 8-8.5 GPH. Its sort of what these engines were built to do. Anyhow, didn't mean to get snarky, just saw something that didn't fit my world view.
 
Review of International Air Rally 2023

My wife and I just returned from the International Air Rally 2023. In an effort to help others make decisions about future versions of this, I offer the following experiential “review” from my and my wife’s point of view only. Others who participated are welcome and encouraged to comment as well, again, only as a help to others.

Pro’s
  • The organizers were experienced having done this for 20+ years.
  • Customs, landing, hotel, and ground transport logistics were pre-arranged and helped a lot.
  • The concept kept us from going into international airports that otherwise may not accommodated.
  • The concept kept us from being taken advantage of with airport fees and customs concerns; particularly pre-negotiated relief from reportedly high FBO and landing fees.
  • We made great friends and camaraderie with the other participants and hope to keep in touch with many of them. Our common love of flying was a great common bond and it was a wonderful experience meeting everyone. A couple of the participants, who were airline pilots, were particularly generous with their time and guidance.
  • Got lots of fun pictures. (PM me privately if you’d like to see the album.).
Con’s
  • The organizers were arrogant and strictly “My way or the highway” which caused undue stress and drama.
  • Any questioning caused participants to be thrown out of the group or told “You’re on your own” (with no refunds).
  • Organizers (without proper explanation and to the dismay of the participants) kicked two of their own staff off the trip when they presented a contrary-to-their-viewpoint weather picture.
  • Organizers prevented a participant from continuing with the group (denied him aircraft parking with the group) after he recovered from an illness which necessitated a logistics deviation.
  • Organizers relied totally on previous experience and refused to be flexible based on current conditions, logistics, or even a different customs agent.
  • When weather was a factor the organizers lacked respect / support for PIC experience, decision making and level of risk avoidance/acceptance by repeatedly saying “You’re on your own” rather than using their experience to help participants recover from alternative logistics necessitated by the weather.
  • The organizers only distributed information on a “Need-to-know” basis, often purposely withholding information or not communicating decisions, particularly when logistics were in flux. For example, when the organizers themselves diverted to the alternate location they themselves suggested, and once there, decided the weather was worth the risk for them to continue on to the original location, they didn’t tell most they were going and why. They just left…then blamed the “staying group” for “ruining their program.”
  • The hotels for the most part, were second rate, old, and run-down.
  • Hotel meals/food, again, (with just some exceptions) were mediocre.
  • Curiously, some landing destinations lacked fuel which necessitated further aircraft cycles and fuel usage as well as increased stress to find alternate locations with fuel when logistics went awry.
  • When the weather caused rescheduling, all prepayments for sailing, lobster dinners, etc, were lost with not even a make-good effort or apology from the organizers. (Quite the opposite, they “blamed” that group for not risking the weather).
  • The briefings were inconsistent and disjointed as the organizers continually argued amongst themselves on details. By the end of the tour, they still couldn’t get their projector to work properly.
Summary: the concept is great and we were delighted to successfully make stops in 9 different countries over ten days and meet great new friends. But the style, tone, and attitude of the organizers is to be avoided.
 
Wow, your cons gave me goose bumps. We did a 16 day Caribbean trip on our own and loved every single part of the experience.
 
Reply to MASS FLYER: MF

The Caribbean air Rally 2023 event, celebrated 20 years: Vincent Dunn long time participant, is really the only one in this chat, with enough experience and knowledge about the International Air Rally events (Canada and Caribbean) to speak the truth about his own experience with the Air Rally.

Above is a report on the Caribbean Air Rally 2023, from one of the participants. Mr. MF, So full of lies and wrong interpretations geared to discredit the organization and discourage pilots from joining these fun amazing adventures. This 2023 air rally was indeed difficult ! for some reason, a group of pilots deviated from their itinerary when others reached destination, no trouble… total fiction !!

First to be clear: Definition of International Air Rally : Caribbean AIR RALLY: Flying challenge over a specified route with a pilot and crew keeping a predetermined itinerary with a set time schedule, with a purpose of promoting flying in the Caribbean Islands, interacting with locals, promoting aerospace to youth ! in the category of Sports event and most important supported by local Government at visited destinations: facebook page International Air Rally has much proof to that..pictures, videos articles..…

Cost comparison because money talks……
Air Rally cost : 2750$ pp for 11 nights - Aircraft fee 485$
VIsited destinations : 5 countries: Turks & Caicos, Tortola BVI, Bequia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Guadeloupe and Dominican Republic.–
CREW OF 2: $5 985 – 544$ for 2 per day
Include breakfast, transport from to airport, landing parking airport fees, group meal per destination, flight coordination, meeting with Ministers, media, etc…..

CST : 6,899 USD pp for 6 nights- Airplane Fee: $1,150 USD-
Visited destinations: 2 countries: turks and Caicos and Dominican Republic
CREW OF 2 : 14 950$ for 6 nights- 2 492$ for 2 Per day

Cayman tour Parker:
3 nights – 1 destination: Cayman
Airport fees: approx. ? 200/plane
Cuban overflight permit: 165$
Hotel 3 nights: Garden view ? 500$ x 3 + 1500$
Parker fee : 550$
Transport not covered neither breakfast or diners or activities: extras
Total : 2415$ = 805$ for 2 per day

Con reported by Mr. MF: The organizers were arrogant and strictly “My way or the highway” which caused undue stress and drama. …...
Air Rally record straight: never said or implied. Weather to Bequia as reported by the pilots who flew there on schedule, was VMC .Pilots report was validated on radar by Committee on the ground in Anguilla. Every effort was made by Committee leader to convince pilots to move on to Bequia but many decided to stay and it had nothing to do with weather. Six airplane made it as per schedule to Bequia. Cessna 172 VFR was part of the 6. Pilot Matthew 18 year old invited by Air Rally landed in Bequia ! flying Rally plane Baron B55

The next day: 4 aircraft departed Anguilla for Bequia. 3 made it, 1 VFR,3 IFR, 1 deviated to Guadeloupe due to pump problem. So 9 of 19 aircraft made it to Bequia. On that morning air rally Committee sent photos: beautiful sunrise, no clouds full VFR… still pilots remained on the ground in Anguilla. .

Though the Air Rally rules are clear: anyone diverting to another destination for any other reason than mechanical, health issue or weather, is no longer part of the Group, diverted pilots were not let down: Organizers, very familiar with Anguilla, provided all the contacts for inexpensive hotels and FBO contact and proposed that the group rejoins the rally in Guadeloupe however, the Air Rally could not be responsible for coordination and support to this group without being on sight and from a distance.

Air Rally record straight : The Air Rally committee was well aware that the 2 Committee members on Cessna 210, fully supported by the organization all expenses paid ! fuel, accommodations, yes indeed ! lucky guys ! had omitted to declare on departure from KFXE that they had unusual fuel consumption problem: NO RANGE This only came up when, on approach to Providenciales they only had 15 minutes of fuel left in the tank. The Cessna 210 landed in bad weather in Provo with ONLY 15 mnts fuel left ! this crew (one airline pilot onboard) was unable to fulfil its obligations. The range problem was serious should a diversion be required on the way to Bequia. The crew was asked to leave the committee however could continue if they covered their cost which they declined and went home.Another member of the Air Rally committee (Airline pilot ) joined us the next day with Bonanza with onboard 1 of the 2 young pilots invited to log time all expenses covered (this is part of our mission) . the fact that young 18 year old pilot Matthew landed in Bequia on schedule !! did make a few pilots unconfortable..

Con reported by Mr. MF: Organizers prevented a participant from continuing with the group (denied him aircraft parking with the group) after he recovered from an illness which necessitated a logistics deviation. ... This is a serious accusation and a total lie. We heard through the Whatsapp that a crew flying bonanza B35, both pilots, went to Guadeloupe from Anguilla because one of them was not well. They were identified by Guadeloupe Authority as Air Rally participants (on the list and not excluded) and directed to General Aviation Parking which happened to be right next to the Air Rally allocated area. GA parking is far more friendly than the Air Rally parking area…no bathroom,, long walk no shelter… The GA parking could not accommodate the 20 planes but surely could accommodate the 2 rally planes that landed in Guadeloupe earlier than expected: One Air Rally aircraft arrived earlier to clear a mechanical issue; the Rally parking was supervised by the police and locked at the time when these 2 arrived... On arrival in Guadeloupe, as scheduled, the rally planes where locked into that section sealed by police. As arranged by airport authority…

Mr. MF spread the word on Whatsapp to all the pilots, on the final day in DR, that a customs agent in Stella Marris was denying entry to pilots coming from Dominican Republic trying to scare pilots The organisers set the record straight and told Mr. MF to stop being so negative. This person MF was a problem from start ! keeps going today posting crazy comments and lies every chat he can find….

For 20 years what helped pilots proceed safely without accidents from the strongest to the weakest is the scout strategy.: IFR planes with long range used as scouts to relay weather back. This was applied when the planes flew to Bequia from Anguilla. TBM relaying status ahead and reporting back conditions, 2023 Participants ignored this approach which proved to be a success even in the Arctic and Alaska.

Con as reported by Mr. MF: The hotels for the most part, were second rate, old, and run-down.
BE your own judge : you can google these : Osprey Beach Hotel Grand turk – Windham Lambert Beach Tortola-Villa Aquarius Bequia proposed to Mrs MF one of 4 empty due to the missing group that stayed in Anguilla ! Auberg de la vieille tour Guadeloupe, hotel for Air France Crew.. and Gran hotel Europa.
Including : Breakfast, and celebration dinners, including open bar, roof top reception and dance !!Transport and flight support, etc….
Handlers : this year exceptionally, 3 handlers were contracted to assist pilots: Atlantic Aviation in Provo, Platinum in Tortola and Universal Aviation in Santo Domingo. The prices were negotiated down more than 1/3 of the normal price per plane. Universal offered services free of charge ! and is now a rally partner in DR

Fuel : All fuel was arranged at final destination. Pilots unable to make the longest legs (KFXE-MBPV 508 NM/MBGT-TUPJ 414 NM/TFFR-MDJB 504 NM) were set with alternate fuel stops on route (TJRV-MYLS) 1 alternate, not 2 this was just for the 172 and PA28.. This information is on the destination kneeboards provided by Air Rally to pilots. Unexpected: We learned in Bequia 2 days prior to arrival in Guadeloupe that fuel truck had mechanical problem and we could not refuel on arrival as we always do. However, we would refuel on departure. The Committee strongly recommended to pilots in Bequia to get fuel in Argyle 20 NM away, 5 minute flight from Bequia same country, which some of us did. Mr. MF rejected the option.. We then proposed Martinique, easy stop to refuel as an alternate.

There was no weather that called for activity rescheduling, just pilots unwilling to fly when conditions permitted. Air Rally does not, neither does Parker or CST make any reservations of activities on behalf of participants. Reservations were made individually and could be cancelled individually. A schooner with 31 people was booked in Bequia again individually by participants online. Air Rally had no control over these bookings. The schooner booked for 31 persons sailed with the 8 people onboard that made it to Bequia ! What lobster diner ?

''The briefings were inconsistent and disjointed as the organizers continually argued amongst themselves on details. …By the end of the tour, they still couldn’t get their projector to work properly.'' I think Mr. MF has run out of ideas…

Should Mr. MF report be interpreted as bashing with the sole purpose to discourage pilots to join this adventure to visit the Caribbean islands at the most affordable price with the support not only from the air Rally committee but from all island Governments that participated in organizing this event?. You will find all the Media TV news reports along the way, Ministers receiving pilots, etc… children visiting airplanes on destinations media… on the International Air Rally facebook

to all chat members, the Air Rally people have never been reluctant to answer questions, and always open to welcome new pilots from the C172 to the TBM majority are single engine C182, Bonanza, RVs, Lancair...
 
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