The phrase "With You"

[Timbeck2]

There’s this concept called irony.

That aside, the word “paroxysm” in the phrase “he fell into a paroxysm of laughter” has become so common that it should be understood by anybody at roughly junior high school reading level.

I highly doubt that. Are you by chance "outside" the US? Of course there is irony and then there's just being a smartass. But the question still remains, how would would YOU say the equivalent of "airspeed alive" using your apparently higher grasp of plain English?

And nobody says, "let's go aviating."

And one last thing. As a controller this "jargon" as you call it, is designed to keep things simple, succinct and to the point. Plain English is used as a last resort.

 

[Fearless Tower]

We just can’t have nice threads....

 

[ChrisK]

We just can’t have nice threads....

Maybe once the kids are a little older

 

[eman1200]

We just can’t have nice threads....

kinda makes you miss the old, fun PoA where threads were very boobalicious and everyone agreed on it, doesn't it?

 

[mscard88]

You'd be annoying to fly with. I can tell.

IF anyone would even fly with him with that attitude. I wouldn't.

 

[Rory]

What you you say to indicate that the airspeed indicator is working?

What would you call "steam gauges"?

Glass cockpit?

Some radical ideas:

What’s wrong with the plain English “airspeed working” or “airspeed good” or “speed gauges good”? I’m sorry, but people outside the US do manage to fly airplanes without the idiotic expression “airspeed alive”.

There’s a highly competent German commercial pilot on YouTube who is clearly pained to acknowledge the existence of the American expression “airspeed alive”. And I agree with him. Is that a crime? Do you think Americans have a patent on flight terminology?

Are you serious about an alternative to “steam gauges”? They are analogue gauges, not exactly an unknown concept. They have F all to do with early 20th century railroad locomotives. Or do you not even know that that is where the expression comes from?

Lord knows where “glass cockpit” comes from. Nobody talks about a “glass workstation”. In the real world, it’s a computer and display loaded with aviation software. As a matter of plain English, the latter makes sense. “Glass cockpit” makes no sense to anybody except a pilot steeped in pilot jargon and Garmin marketing.

 

[mscard88]

Believe we have ourselves a troll boys!

 

[Timbeck2]

I asked the questions, you answered them. Fair enough.

Good luck with your training.

 

[PaulS]

Ah, I wish I was as smart now as when I was a youngster.

 

[Rory]

Ah, I wish I was as smart now as when I was a youngster.

Well it’s certainly a pity that you don’t seem to know that expressions like “steam gauges” and “glass cockpit” make no sense outside Garmin marketing material.

And it’s also a pity that you have apparently decided that anyone who doesn’t use the expression “airspeed alive” is wet behind the ears, because, you know, that’s what you and your pals use.

 

[ShuRugal]

Believe we have ourselves a troll boys!

Funny, you could put "Conservative trolls" there and it would have as much relevance to the text that follows as it did in the original.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Timbeck2]

There’s a highly competent German commercial pilot on YouTube who is clearly pained to acknowledge the existence of the American expression “airspeed alive”. And I agree with him. Is that a crime? Do you think Americans have a patent on flight terminology?

Oh now I get it, you're still ****ed off about losing the war.

 

[mscard88]

Funny, you could put "Conservative trolls" there and it would have as much relevance to the text that follows as it did in the original.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Yeah realized that after I posted it. Didn't mean anything by it. I'll change it if you want. No worries.

 

[Rory]

Oh now I get it, you're still ****ed off about losing the war.

My country entered the war in 1939. Yours?

 

[mscard88]

My country was in the war in 1939. Yours?

We won.

 

[Timbeck2]

Which country is that?

 

[bflynn]

We won.

A Brit? Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're still holding a grudge over that whole war back in the late 1770s.

 

[ShuRugal]

Yeah realized that after I posted it. Didn't mean anything by it. I'll change it if you want. No worries.

My objection is primarily in the increasingly wide-spread usage of convenient labels to dismiss as irrelevant any viewpoint you don't want to hear. I find it increasingly difficult to take seriously anyone who uses "Conservative" or "Liberal" as a swear word.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Rory]

Which country is that?

Your neighbour to the north, the one that actually entered the war immediately instead of pretending that it wasn’t happening.

 

[Timbeck2]

Your neighbour to the north.

Pete? Cool, hey when you have your parties on Saturday nights, could you keep the tuba and accordion music down because sometimes I have a day shift on Sundays.

 

[mscard88]

My objection is primarily in the increasingly wide-spread usage of convenient labels to dismiss as irrelevant any viewpoint you don't want to hear. I find it increasingly difficult to take seriously anyone who uses "Conservative" or "Liberal" as a swear word.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

No one takes me serious around here. But, ok, you won't either.

 

[Rory]

Pete? Cool, hey when you have your parties on Saturday nights, could you keep the tuba and accordion music down because sometimes I have a day shift on Sundays.

Can’t do. I live half the year in New York, part of it in Paris, and the rest on a salmon river in Newfoundland, where I not only hear accordion and violin folk music but respect it.

And your point is?

 

[Timbeck2]

My point is that the British Commonwealth couldn't win the war on their own so the Americans bailed you out. A lot of our greatest generation are buried in graves over there so that your spoiled, snot-nosed little punks didn't have to grow up speaking German.

 

[Rory]

My point is that the British Commonwealth couldn't win the war on their own so the Americans bailed you out. A lot of our greatest generation are buried in graves over there so that spoiled, snot-nosed little punks didn't have to grow up speaking German.

Okeydoke. Donald Trump couldn't have said it better.

 

[nauga]

"My pneumatic tube-and-gauge system is experiencing differential pressure sufficient to cause the mechanical indicator to indicate that the airspeed corresponding to that differential pressure is above the threshold required for indication."

"What?!"

"Airspeed's alive."

Nauga,
who has been known to say "off the peg" even with glass

 

[OkieAviator]

Okeydoke. Donald Trump couldn't have said it better.

Did you get bored of making new posts? So instead decided to come edit your existing posts?

 

[denverpilot]

I got a kick out of some non-standard phraseology tonight.

Controller decides to flip the airport around, deals with all of the traffic reversals with aplomb (I just like saying aplomb) including us who he has do a high speed taxi down 35L to spin around and depart 17R and ...

It’s always the easy one that gets ya, after concentrating that hard...

Denver hands him an IFR many miles out who checks in aimed south and he gives them, “Cleared to land 35R.”

The pilot just says, “Are you sure? Maybe 17L?”

Controller apologizes and gave him the correct runway number. Hehehe. We were chuckling on the upwind from the parallel.

It’s was a fun evening in the pattern. My instructor accidentally asked to switch to touch and goes to speed things up a bit right as the clock said it was “night” and then he realized he wanted to do full stops to make sure we were both night current. So he tells the controller to disregard the request and apologizes.

Controller, laughing, says, “Nope! Too late! Already switched ya!” And then chuckles and says he’s kidding and we’re cleared to land.

It’s all about com-mun-i-kay-shun... ya know? Everyone was apparently feeling saucy tonight at the KAPA funny farm.

 

[PaulS]

So, I want to be a pilot, but I don't like the aviation lingo, therefore everyone else should change, that is all..... oh, and you are all poopyheads.

 

[LongRoadBob]

Yup, and the first or second page covered the original post. But, it's POA, whatya gonna do.

I'm the OP, it's ok with me and I found it interesting, but yeah, as you say, I got a good answer (as usual here!) pretty quickly.

I think this happens a lot with us students. At least with THIS one, that as I learn, I become aware that though I think I know the meaning of something...a little voice in the back of my head tells me to double check because it could be something with a very precise meaning, and could have implications I'm not aware I am agreeing to.

 

[Timbeck2]

Okeydoke. Donald Trump couldn't have said it better.

Spoken like a spoiled, snot-nosed little punk.

 

[James331]

Your neighbour to the north, the one that actually entered the war immediately instead of pretending that it wasn’t happening.

Canada?

You're not so much your own country as our pet, or winter fashion accessory.

 

[iamtheari]

What’s wrong with the plain English “airspeed working” or “airspeed good” or “speed gauges good”? I’m sorry, but people outside the US do manage to fly airplanes without the idiotic expression “airspeed alive”.

Airspeed good: This is ambiguous. Good for what? Rotation?

Speed gauges good: Which speed gauges? How many are you looking at?

Airspeed working: Same number of syllables as the standard call but worse cadence and too easily mistaken for airspeed broken.

What is the standard CRM call-out for the airspeed indicator coming to life on takeoff roll in which other countries that you are referring to?

 

[Velocity173]

But I guess it’s not idiotic when the Canucks use “track bar is alive” or “VNAV is alive”?

From Transport Canada:

Standard Calls General Other than as noted in this subsection and the next one that deals with altitude, no additional calls to those described in the "General" chapter are required during the Initial/Intermediate Approach phase. To reduce the likelihood of overshooting a desired track during any arrival procedure the PNF should warn the PF as follows:
i) When approaching a track which will be followed using primarily the track bar display, on initial movement of the track bar away from full deflection with the warning flags out of view, the PNF should call "Track Bar is alive." The PF should confirm the movement and say "Check."
ii) When approaching a track which will be followed using primarily a bearing display, the PNF should warn the PF when the display indicates that the aircraft is 10o away from the desired track. For example the PNF would call "10 degrees to 140", where 140o is the desired track. The PF would confirm the bearing and call "Check."
iii) To reduce the likelihood of overshooting a desired vertical path during the Initial/Intermediate Approach phase, the PNF should warn the PF as follows:
a) When approaching a VNAV computed descent path on initial movement of the vertical path indicator away from full deflection with the warning flags out of view, the PNF should call "VNAV is alive." The PF should confirm the movement and say "Check."

 

[James331]

But I guess it’s not idiotic when the Canucks use “track bar is alive” or “VNAV is alive”?

From Transport Canada:

Standard Calls General Other than as noted in this subsection and the next one that deals with altitude, no additional calls to those described in the "General" chapter are required during the Initial/Intermediate Approach phase. To reduce the likelihood of overshooting a desired track during any arrival procedure the PNF should warn the PF as follows:
i) When approaching a track which will be followed using primarily the track bar display, on initial movement of the track bar away from full deflection with the warning flags out of view, the PNF should call "Track Bar is alive." The PF should confirm the movement and say "Check."
ii) When approaching a track which will be followed using primarily a bearing display, the PNF should warn the PF when the display indicates that the aircraft is 10o away from the desired track. For example the PNF would call "10 degrees to 140", where 140o is the desired track. The PF would confirm the bearing and call "Check."
iii) To reduce the likelihood of overshooting a desired vertical path during the Initial/Intermediate Approach phase, the PNF should warn the PF as follows:
a) When approaching a VNAV computed descent path on initial movement of the vertical path indicator away from full deflection with the warning flags out of view, the PNF should call "VNAV is alive." The PF should confirm the movement and say "Check."

By his own words he's just a student pilot right? Were you expecting his senseless diatribe to be grounded in logic?

 

[CJ Rader]

So, I want to be a pilot, but I don't like the aviation lingo, therefore everyone else should change, that is all..... oh, and you are all poopyheads.

And here I thought that “Airspeed alive” was a good mental and verbal exercise to succinctly remind me and to put my CFI’s mind at rest that I had indeed observed the ASI, that it was working and that the airplane was gaining velocity at the proper rate. I had no idea I was perpetuating an antiquated anachronism. How will I ever go on?!

 

[Palmpilot]

...As for ATITPPA, I have never said it but can see its usefulness in some situations. Say you're IFR, single pilot, and Approach dumps you off to Unicom 1 or 2 minutes out. You haven't been monitoring Unicom. Asking anyone in the pattern to speak up seems reasonable to me. I don't understand why the FAA would single out this one phrase in the AIM.

It would seem useful to me if I thought that the other pilots on frequency would hear my own position report and yet somehow think that position reports of their own would serve no purpose.

That having been said, the AIM prohibition might be a little over the top.

 

[mscard88]

That having been said, the AIM prohibition might be a little over the top.

Wayyyy over top!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Okay, I thought there was one case where "With You" was sort of standard (well, like 83% standard ) and that is the initial call into flight services where you also state which frequency you called in on. I thought that was to help them as they have to queue up and handle several frequencies. So around here might be: "Princeton Radio, Skylane Romeo Eight Juliet with you on 122.25". I guess you could just say "Princeton Radio, Skylane Romeo Eight Juliet on 122.5". So far both instructors have taught with you, but only for initial call to FSS and in no other case.

Still wrong - Should be "Listening 122.5."

Controversial: I love love love ATITPPA..

In a seperate thread I will callenge anyone to a debate on that.

Any Trolls In The Area, Please Advise...

As for ATITPPA, I have never said it but can see its usefulness in some situations. Say you're IFR, single pilot, and Approach dumps you off to Unicom 1 or 2 minutes out. You haven't been monitoring Unicom. Asking anyone in the pattern to speak up seems reasonable to me. I don't understand why the FAA would single out this one phrase in the AIM.

Because it's a waste of valuable frequency time in exactly the situation you're describing. A quick "Podunk traffic, N345, 5-mile straight in final runway 27" is enough on its own. If there's someone that might cause a conflict, they'll answer. Adding ATITAPA does absolutely nothing but waste valuable time conflicting traffic might have been able to use to reply.

There's only one valid use of "with you" IMO:

"7ST, turn left bravo three, taxi to the south ramp via delta, remain this frequency."
"Left bravo three, delta to the south ramp with you, 7ST."

It's the fastest way to acknowledge "remain this frequency". Other than that, well, the rest of us are judging those of you who say it.

 

[Palmpilot]

There's only one valid use of "with you" IMO:

"7ST, turn left bravo three, taxi to the south ramp via delta, remain this frequency."
"Left bravo three, delta to the south ramp with you, 7ST."

It's the fastest way to acknowledge "remain this frequency". Other than that, well, the rest of us are judging those of you who say it.

The fastest way to acknowledge "remain this frequency" is to say your prefix and call sign. Anything else is extraneous.

 

[mscard88]

The fastest way to acknowledge "remain this frequency" is to say your prefix and call sign. Anything else is extraneous.

Or call sign, "wilco" also works. ex "cessna56T wilco"