aftCG
Line Up and Wait
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2015
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aftCG
With apologies to those who surf the same places I do, and who might see this cross posted to those groups, I'm seeking input.
Asymmetric Partnerships
I currently have a Citabria 7ECA that has been upgraded to 150hp, and keep it in a hangar. When I got the plane it had been on loan to a flight school and small college that trains pilot/mechanics for Mission Aviation Fellowship work. There were people who had been involved with the care and use of the plane who were sad to see it leave and I thought at the time that I would keep the plane available to some of them.
That really hasn’t happened yet for no reason other than no one pursuing the opportunity. I also recently met with a couple of guys who had been looking into a partnership. They were really looking for something with more seats (they are where I was 20 years ago: kids), but they were a both great guys who would love to have access to a cheap to fly tail dragger. One of them had a great spreadsheet he shared with me which captured the fixed and variable costs in an way that was easy to plug in “what if” situations.
I’ve been a pilot for just over 20 years and spent part of that as a CFII (more on that later). As an instructor doing freelance work I witnessed several aircraft partnerships, leasebacks, flying clubs, etc. It will be no surprise to anyone reading this that the variety of satisfaction (read: soundly operated and equitable) has been all over the place.
I instructed two guys who were in a 4-way partnership in an old (but nice) C172. I taught two of the members to fly and was shocked one day to find that they had never even met each other (I booked lessons back to back and saw them walk right past each other). They admitted that they didn’t even have a booking system, they just drove out to the airport.
I also taught a pilot from a 10 way partnership in a nice C177B fixed gear Cardinal, and ended up giving BFRs to two more of the members including one who had been an owner for years but not been flying.
Those two partnerships both worked out great for the people I flew with mainly because the other owners never did. I can’t explain the behavior of those people, but it is without doubt the reason for satisfaction from the people making full utilization of their opportunity.
My recent thinking includes the following data points:
I don’t want to create a club. Rules, meetings, dues, bbq events. I’m not a hermit but I’m also not exactly social. The big multi-aircraft clubs I’ve been around had heel clicking rule enforcers and frankly a pretty high cash burn rate (over the top mandatory currency requirements come to mind). And I’m talking about my cash burning, not the club’s.
I don’t want to be an equal partner in my own airplane and be voted off the island because I don’t (or do) want to make panel upgrades, etc. For example my plane has heel brakes. It’s going to continue to have heel brakes.
The plane is going to eventually need to be covered and decisions made about the wing spars. When it goes back together I’m going to be on a crusade to save weight. Everything from covering materials and paint to battery (type and location), floor boards and panel equipment will all be obsessed over. The one weight exception I’ll make is to use metal belly skins, which are a huge benefit during annuals.
For the reasons above, a typical friendly link to the AOPA web site for an article about partnerships won’t apply here. Getting back to my “more on that later” remark, I would like to dust off my CFII and use it to teach at least one of my sons to fly as well as make myself available for tail dragger endorsements and private pilot training on a part time basis.
Potential paths as I see them right now:
1. Give up on my unicorn ideal and sell equal shares, but attempt to accept partners with a like mind. Enjoy spending 25% of my current fixed costs and live on.
2. Keep my plane for myself but essentially toss the keys to people I trust, as long as they get their own insurance. I’m pretty sure that asking them to contribute any money would constitute an illegal rental operation, so this option puts wear on my plane with no benefit for me.
3. Keep my plane, get a different insurance policy with named pilots on it, find a few like minds but sell 2-3 minor shares (possibly even $1) with rights to buy them out. Create a legal club with a dictatorship instead of a voting board, and accept money which would partially offset the monthly fixed burn rate (hangar, insurance and annual).
This club would only instruct members so I think it would avoid 100 hour requirements.
4. Screw it, keep my plane to myself and teach my son to fly. Stop speaking to nice people who express interest in my aircraft.
Asymmetric Partnerships
I currently have a Citabria 7ECA that has been upgraded to 150hp, and keep it in a hangar. When I got the plane it had been on loan to a flight school and small college that trains pilot/mechanics for Mission Aviation Fellowship work. There were people who had been involved with the care and use of the plane who were sad to see it leave and I thought at the time that I would keep the plane available to some of them.
That really hasn’t happened yet for no reason other than no one pursuing the opportunity. I also recently met with a couple of guys who had been looking into a partnership. They were really looking for something with more seats (they are where I was 20 years ago: kids), but they were a both great guys who would love to have access to a cheap to fly tail dragger. One of them had a great spreadsheet he shared with me which captured the fixed and variable costs in an way that was easy to plug in “what if” situations.
I’ve been a pilot for just over 20 years and spent part of that as a CFII (more on that later). As an instructor doing freelance work I witnessed several aircraft partnerships, leasebacks, flying clubs, etc. It will be no surprise to anyone reading this that the variety of satisfaction (read: soundly operated and equitable) has been all over the place.
I instructed two guys who were in a 4-way partnership in an old (but nice) C172. I taught two of the members to fly and was shocked one day to find that they had never even met each other (I booked lessons back to back and saw them walk right past each other). They admitted that they didn’t even have a booking system, they just drove out to the airport.
I also taught a pilot from a 10 way partnership in a nice C177B fixed gear Cardinal, and ended up giving BFRs to two more of the members including one who had been an owner for years but not been flying.
Those two partnerships both worked out great for the people I flew with mainly because the other owners never did. I can’t explain the behavior of those people, but it is without doubt the reason for satisfaction from the people making full utilization of their opportunity.
My recent thinking includes the following data points:
I don’t want to create a club. Rules, meetings, dues, bbq events. I’m not a hermit but I’m also not exactly social. The big multi-aircraft clubs I’ve been around had heel clicking rule enforcers and frankly a pretty high cash burn rate (over the top mandatory currency requirements come to mind). And I’m talking about my cash burning, not the club’s.
I don’t want to be an equal partner in my own airplane and be voted off the island because I don’t (or do) want to make panel upgrades, etc. For example my plane has heel brakes. It’s going to continue to have heel brakes.
The plane is going to eventually need to be covered and decisions made about the wing spars. When it goes back together I’m going to be on a crusade to save weight. Everything from covering materials and paint to battery (type and location), floor boards and panel equipment will all be obsessed over. The one weight exception I’ll make is to use metal belly skins, which are a huge benefit during annuals.
For the reasons above, a typical friendly link to the AOPA web site for an article about partnerships won’t apply here. Getting back to my “more on that later” remark, I would like to dust off my CFII and use it to teach at least one of my sons to fly as well as make myself available for tail dragger endorsements and private pilot training on a part time basis.
Potential paths as I see them right now:
1. Give up on my unicorn ideal and sell equal shares, but attempt to accept partners with a like mind. Enjoy spending 25% of my current fixed costs and live on.
2. Keep my plane for myself but essentially toss the keys to people I trust, as long as they get their own insurance. I’m pretty sure that asking them to contribute any money would constitute an illegal rental operation, so this option puts wear on my plane with no benefit for me.
3. Keep my plane, get a different insurance policy with named pilots on it, find a few like minds but sell 2-3 minor shares (possibly even $1) with rights to buy them out. Create a legal club with a dictatorship instead of a voting board, and accept money which would partially offset the monthly fixed burn rate (hangar, insurance and annual).
This club would only instruct members so I think it would avoid 100 hour requirements.
4. Screw it, keep my plane to myself and teach my son to fly. Stop speaking to nice people who express interest in my aircraft.