Saying 2.5 instead of 2500, etc?

I’m still looking for a good answer where the pretty common convention of dropping the thousands originated. Been curious about that one for years. I suspect the abbreviation is a military carryover used for a number of things but that’s just a WAG.

I don’t use it, except when copying a clearance, but don’t get overexcited about it.
 
Bradley W said:
it is dangerous and could overlap with a radio freq as radio freq is also point.
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Really? A pilot hearing "descend and maintain tree thousand fife hundred" but reading back "leaving seven point oh for three point five" is going to confuse the same pilot into remaining at altitude and switching frequencies instead?

Or do you have a scenario in mind I’m not thinking of. Remember, we’re talking pilot jargon, not ATC instruction.
 
I still recall an aircraft coming into Opa Locka, identitying himself as “Bonanza triple seven sugar pop*”.

When asked to clarify, he repeated “Bonanza triple seven sugar pop”.

To which the tower said, “Aircraft calling Opa Locka Tower, if you’re trying to make things difficult, you’re succeeding. Say again call sign.”

Again, I take pride in knowing and adhering to recommended phraseology. As someone else said, it’s just as easy to do it right as it is to insist on doing it wrong.


*or something very similar - it was many decades ago, after all.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I’m still looking for a good answer where the pretty common convention of dropping the thousands originated. Been curious about that one for years. I suspect the abbreviation is a military carryover used for a number of things but that’s just a WAG.

I don’t use it, except when copying a clearance, but don’t get overexcited about it.
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It’s kind of like ‘with you’. Just developed over time. For whatever reason it really bothers some people.

I don’t use either, but it never bothered me to hear it.
 
FastEddieB said:
I still recall an aircraft coming into Opa Locka, identitying himself as “Bonanza triple seven sugar pop*”.

When asked to clarify, he repeated “Bonanza triple seven sugar pop”.

To which the tower said, “Aircraft calling Opa Locka Tower, if you’re trying to make things difficult, you’re succeeding. Say again call sign.”

Again, I take pride in knowing and adhering to recommended phraseology. As someone else said, it’s just as easy to do it right as it is to insist on doing it wrong.


*or something very similar - it was many decades ago, after all.
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That must have been a fairly young controller. I think most old timers would understand and accept "sugar" (siera), and "baker" (bravo).

Certainly I agree about using terminology that is well understood, but some technically incorrect jargon is just so well known that it is understood.
 
GeorgeC said:
With the flash...
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That one I haven't heard in several years.
Some jargon seems to withstand the test of time, while other seems to be a short lived fad.
"Flash", and "fishfinder" were short lived fads in my experience.
 
FastEddieB said:
I still recall an aircraft coming into Opa Locka, identitying himself as “Bonanza triple seven sugar pop*”.

When asked to clarify, he repeated “Bonanza triple seven sugar pop”.

To which the tower said, “Aircraft calling Opa Locka Tower, if you’re trying to make things difficult, you’re succeeding. Say again call sign.”

Again, I take pride in knowing and adhering to recommended phraseology. As someone else said, it’s just as easy to do it right as it is to insist on doing it wrong.


*or something very similar - it was many decades ago, after all.
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One of my brothers is ex-military, now flying B787s. He has zero tolerance for my non-standard phraseology when he's flying with me, and that lesson has stuck.
 
Kritchlow said:
That one I haven't heard in several years.
Some jargon seems to withstand the test of time, while other seems to be a short lived fad.
"Flash", and "fishfinder" were short lived fads in my experience.
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It's alive and well in the military. But I'm on uniform so that probably helps the pedants on victor :D

GRG55 said:
One of my brothers is ex-military, now flying B787s. He has zero tolerance for my non-standard phraseology when he's flying with me, and that lesson has stuck.
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Your brother sounds like a real party on a 4-day :rolleyes:. L-AAmerican guys and their superior pilots (ask L-USair guys about that reference). I'm military, and I'll let ya d!ck up the radios anytime bud, as long as we're having a good time and don't hit anything. Tell ya what, next time he gives ya the ivory tower spiel,
tell him to SETTLE DOWN, Capt Happy. ;):D
 
Kritchlow said:
That one I haven't heard in several years.
Some jargon seems to withstand the test of time, while other seems to be a short lived fad.
"Flash", and "fishfinder" were short lived fads in my experience.
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I hope 'position checks' is short lived, that one annoys me for some reason.
 
eman1200 said:
I hope 'position checks' is short lived, that one annoys me for some reason.
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I didn't start hearing that one until very recently. Seems unnecessary. If it doesn't conform, yes, it would be a very good idea to say something...

...or if asked for confirmation. While doing a local IFR proficient flight, on the climb out from the missed, rather than asked to say the altitude I was passing through, I was aksed to confirm the altitude the controller's radar showed. "Altitude checks" came out without even thinking. I still can't think of anything better. Just as good, maybe, but nothing inherently better.
 
Confirming altitude:

"Affirmative two thousand" is what I use. YMMV.
 
If you check in by reporting the altitude you are leaving for the altitude you're climbing to, then you shouldn't get a confirm on the controller's side.
 
Leaving two thousand three hundred, climbing five thousand
 
Velocity173 said:
If you check in by reporting the altitude you are leaving for the altitude you're climbing to, then you shouldn't get a confirm on the controller's side.
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Unless on your initial call you are not yet in radar contact.
 
Kritchlow said:
Unless on your initial call you are not yet in radar contact.
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Yeah, beneath radar they'll get back to you and then confirm altitude leaving. Possibly that's what happened the situation above.
 
Position check, here’s your flash is from one of YouTube “stars” whose name escapes me (flys a TBM). Millennial generation lingo I guess.
 
Ive used it myself, though not text book, I have gotten any static over it.



Velocity173 said:
I use "angels two point five" myself. ATC never has a problem with it. ;)
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Tally ho!


teejayevans said:
Position check, here’s your flash is from one of YouTube “stars” whose name escapes me (flys a TBM). Millennial generation lingo I guess.
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Think the "flash" is millitary, never said anything when asked to ident, my reply is the ident.
 
James331 said:
Ive used it myself, though not text book, I have gotten any static over it.





Tally ho!




Think the "flash" is millitary, never said anything when asked to ident, my reply is the ident.
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In all seriousness, I don't use any of the slang/code word stuff. Don't say angels,tally,flash,fish finder, 2.5 and others when dealing with ATC. I guess I'm boring and lack flair. :(

Don't get fired up when others use it though. Odds of it being a safety issue or the controller misunderstanding, slim.
 
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I cringe every time I hear that on the radio but to each his own...to me it sounds like an embarrassing wannabe goober that wishes they were able to fly in the flight levels with the big boys.
 
I said "Any traffic in the area please advise" once. Thank god the Grumman Traveler doesn't have an ejection seat or @SixPapaCharlie would have used it on me! :)
 
I think we can all agree that everyone on PoA is a superior pilot and no one here would dare to use non standard phraseology!
 
Reminds me of the old one about the guy who suspected his wife of having an affair with a pilot. When he confronted her, she responded "honey, if I've told you once, I've told you niner thousand times, negative on the affair!"
 
James331 said:
Think the "flash" is millitary, never said anything when asked to ident, my reply is the ident.
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What about “wilco”?

Usually ident is paired with another request like “remain VFR and ident”, seems repeating non critical requests is a waste of bandwidth. I don’t repeat baro settings either.
 
teejayevans said:
What about “wilco”?

Usually ident is paired with another request like “remain VFR and ident”, seems repeating non critical requests is a waste of bandwidth. I don’t repeat baro settings either.
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Wilco is listed in the controller handbook and AIM. Now "roger wilco".....

Wilco is also a popular band, so a pilot might be listening to them too. ;):D
 
Shawn said:
I cringe every time I hear that on the radio but to each his own...to me it sounds like an embarrassing wannabe goober that wishes they were able to fly in the flight levels with the big boys.
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Indeed the flight levels in the US start at 18,000', but many parts of the Caribbean I've seen as low as 4,000'.
I have a lot of Caribbean experience, but 100% of it is IFR. I don't think you need to be IFR at 4,000, but I may be wrong about that.
Anyway, I wonder how many here would do in that environment? Flight level 45 may be a bit foreign.
 
The "2.5" thing bugs me, but I don't really have a good reason, other than not being in the AIM. To me it sounds like the pilot is trying to sound cool. :dunno:
 
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hindsight2020 said:
It's alive and well in the military. But I'm on uniform so that probably helps the pedants on victor :D



Your brother sounds like a real party on a 4-day :rolleyes:. L-AAmerican guys and their superior pilots (ask L-USair guys about that reference). I'm military, and I'll let ya d!ck up the radios anytime bud, as long as we're having a good time and don't hit anything. Tell ya what, next time he gives ya the ivory tower spiel,
tell him to SETTLE DOWN, Capt Happy. ;):D
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4 tours in the ME, 3 of them in Afghanistan, two of those flying fling wings. He's a better pilot than I will ever be and my habit is to learn, not tell him what to do.

One thing I have noticed, when he slides into the left seat of my plane his demeanour turns to one of calm concentration, and every motion is deliberate and consistent. He's helped me become a much better pilot.
 
Palmpilot said:
The "2.5" thing bugs me, but I don't really have a good reason, other than not being in the AIM. To me it sounds like the pilot is trying to sound cool. :dunno:
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Whatever their origins, that’s where most jargon use comes from.
 
Velocity173 said:
In all seriousness, I don't use any of the slang/code word stuff. Don't say angels,tally,flash,fish finder, 2.5 and others when dealing with ATC. I guess I'm boring and lack flair. :(

Don't get fired up when others use it though. Odds of it being a safety issue or the controller misunderstanding, slim.
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I guess I’ll have to start sayin I’m at point six climbing to point nine. Or maybe it’s more hip to say dot nine?
 
Kritchlow said:
Indeed the flight levels in the US start at 18,000', but many parts of the Caribbean I've seen as low as 4,000'.
I have a lot of Caribbean experience, but 100% of it is IFR. I don't think you need to be IFR at 4,000, but I may be wrong about that.
Anyway, I wonder how many here would do in that environment? Flight level 45 may be a bit foreign.
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I've been in IMC much lower than 4000, therefore I have needed to be (and was!) IFR. Flight Levels vary by country, and are whatever the country you're flying above and talking to says they are.
 
Hank S said:
I've been in IMC much lower than 4000, therefore I have needed to be (and was!) IFR. Flight Levels vary by country, and are whatever the country you're flying above and talking to says they are.
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Yes.... what's your point?
 
The only thing that really bothers me is using "for" and "to" when reading back altitudes. Apart from that, keep trying to sound cool with your "two point five", just know that you don't :)
 
I guess I'm going to go against the grain here. As a controller at a busy TRACON I routinely hear short hand verbiage. i.e. "three point seven for five", "xxx with you eleven six descending to ten", "two ninety to intercept down to seven" and the list goes on. When the frequency gets congested, I appreciate it. As long as it's clear what you are doing, no issues. Likewise when flying I keep it short especially if the sector I'm talking to is busy. I think it has a lot less to do with trying to sound cool and more for efficiency on the freq. Fighter pilots are especially good at keeping it short and sweet...lot going on single pilot at a fast speed, they don't have time to BS. That said, as long as someone doesn't key up with their life story, the standard long version is fine too.
 
"Departure, Blade 11 deck check climbing to two." :)
 
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