AME contacted the FAA to "warn" them about me!

Maybe nothing. But I wonder, have there been successful libel suits brought from a Yelp review? Maybe there have been. There have been many from social media/Internet forum posts. I think the argument would be the "expectation" that on a "review" site that others would weigh it against other reviews. But I am spitballing, I don't know.
 
I don't see the big deal, just don't rip folks off and you don't have to worry about bad reviews, trying to sue every customer you screwed over who left you a bad review, I just don't see that going anywhere, heck I'd wager the only person it would hurt would be the merchant.
 
James331 said:
What the difference between leaving a review of poor service on Yelp, google, or POA?
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Wasn't the complaint about libel?

Two way street. That's the risk. The claim was intentional sabotage. If that's not true -- including the "intentional" part -- the OP would have committed a libel, i.e., making a false claim resulting in damage.

You have to be really, really careful when you accuse someone of something in public. Because the guy receiving it is an individual with the same rights.
 
James331 said:
I don't see the big deal, just don't rip folks off and you don't have to worry about bad reviews, trying to sue every customer you screwed over who left you a bad review, I just don't see that going anywhere, heck I'd wager the only person it would hurt would be the merchant.
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That's quite interesting. Every bad review is deserved.

In real life, people sometimes post bad reviews because they didn't want to admit they were wrong, or even sometimes, because they work for (or are) a competitor.
 
James331 said:
You and I have a different definition of "risk" I think.

Leaving bad reviews for someone giving crap service isn't something I consider risk, just called being a consumer.
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The OP's definition of risk is the one that counts, IMO.
 
And the AME has shown he is willing to go out of his way to stir trouble for the OP because he didn't like him going to another AME. What would he be willing to do if he saw his name on a message board? Maybe nothing, maybe sue. Who knows... But if it were me I would just take my shiny new medical, go flying and know where I would NOT go next time I needed to renew.
 
Two sides to every story. However, OP got the medical and probably could have avoided all of this frustration if he handled it differently from the beginning.

In this case, the OP has dual culpability by poking the bees nest when telling the AME that he was going to find another doctor. Maybe a better option would have been to say let me get back to you and then went to another AME. I doubt the AME would have even thought about writing a letter.

Again, there are always two sides to every story and we are only getting 1 side here. Better yet, both the AME and the OP probably honestly feel their side of the story is most accurate and correct.
 
linuxjim said:
And the AME has shown he is willing to go out of his way to stir trouble for the OP because he didn't like him going to another AME. What would he be willing to do if he saw his name on a message board? Maybe nothing, maybe sue. Who knows... But if it were me I would just take my shiny new medical, go flying and know where I would NOT go next time I needed to renew.
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It is far more effective to tell others about good experiences than it is to trash someone. There is way, way too much "anonymous" internet harassment as it is - show respect for others. I'd say a very factual (not opinionated) report would be OK, but it's way too easy on the internet to get carried away into defamation. True facts are generally not actionable.

MAKG1 said:
That's quite interesting. Every bad review is deserved.

In real life, people sometimes post bad reviews because they didn't want to admit they were wrong, or even sometimes, because they work for (or are) a competitor.
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Agree. There are way too many false reviews on websites from folks that either are paid off or have an axe to grind unrelated to the facts. Take a look at Amazon recently and you'll see product reviews that contain words to the effect of "I have received free or discounted product in exchange for posting a review".
 
mulligan said:
Two sides to every story. However, OP got the medical and probably could have avoided all of this frustration if he handled it differently from the beginning.

In this case, the OP has dual culpability by poking the bees nest when telling the AME that he was going to find another doctor.
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Like I said, it'd have been better if he DIDN'T tell the AME he was going somewhere else. I've worked directly with hundreds of physicians in my field. They do get upset and take it personally if a long time patient voices this type of response and leaves (all reactions including "didn't I bust my rear for this patient, saved his stupid kid, sutured his uncle for free" etc.). They have time vested in their patients and most of the good doctors have gone above and beyond in many circumstances. Look at how much free advice Dr. Bruce Chien has doled out, and then someone he's assisted for free "craps" on him in a different forum ... you'd be upset too.
 
Well, look what happened with this same AME today:

My student went to him today for a 1st class. While reviewing the paper work, the Dr. told him he was soloing without a medical and he then reported him to the FAA on the spot. My student is 18 years old and started working on his sport pilot cert about a year ago. A couple months ago he decided he would rather pursue a Private pilot certificate and we continued trying to private pilot requirements using a sport aircraft. Medical is not required for sport aircraft but the AME didn't know the regulations and turned him in. About an hour later I (as the instructor) received a call from the MKE FSDO and had a conversation with a very nice inspector. He informed me the Dr. was wrong for reporting this as a violation. He wasted about two hours of my student's time and berated him in the office right before he reported him. I just want to warn people to stay away from this guy and see if this was a one time issue or if others have had a problem with him.
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What a jerk.
 
A little late on this thread, but several years ago an AME messed up on my EKG and I had to jump through the hoops and fire for the FAA. I went to a different AME to work through the FAAs demands. It was discovered the other AME messed up. My new AME did what was necessary for the other AME to not be able to be an AME anymore.
 
azpilot said:
http://abc7ny.com/news/woman-sued-$1000-for-negative-yelp-review/998800/

You can get sued for a bad yelp review. The plaintiff might not win, but it happens. The woman in the article called the business owner a "con artist".
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A wedding photographer here in Dallas just had a million dollar judgement slapped on a couple that maliciously attacked her through social media and ruined her business.

They decided they didn't have to buy a certain number and size of photographs that were spelled out in the contract they signed. The couple then stiffed her and started a ****storm on the internet.

It got ugly. They used fake names to leave comments on Facebook, even saying the photographer was gay and gave the fake person AIDS.

They deserved what they got. The photographer went from booking 100 weddings a year to four or five because of their actions. She is fighting to clear her name now that the happy couple has received their comeuppance.
 
I guess libel is still libel, even on the Internet.
 
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Alas, I had an absolute TURD of an AME who not only LIED to me, he did things that Dr. Bruce told me years later should have gotten his designation pulled (failure to PERSONALLY handle the process). Thank heavens for the Regional Flight Surgeon, her pilot advocate assistant, and a reasonable reviewer in OKC who undid the mess (mostly). It took more letters and a new AME to convince the FAA to finally agree that I never had the condition they had initially been concerned about and rescinde the SI they had given me. It still took me several annual AME visits and nearly 12 weeks of grounding initially to resolve.

As with any PERSONAL SERVICE, the best solution is to always GET REFERENCES. Hell, I won't pick a GP or any specialist, or my dentist without fully vetting them, why should the AME be any different.

Frankly, my opinion is the entire designation system in the FAA is ripe for corruption and indeed much of it is.
 
Palmpilot said:
I guess libel is still libel, even in the Internet.
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The medium isn't so important. The issue is the statement has to be false and defamatory, made to a third party, and provide some injury to the subject. While this is certainly a "third party" communication, the fact an AME made a report to the FAA appears to be factual and not defamatory in the least.
 
Van Johnston said:
May be a stretch, but might he have violated your HIPAA privacy rights? Does the AME designation give him the prerogative to disclose his suspicion? I don't know; just thinking out loud....
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1) AME is an agent of the FAA for the purposes of the medical when. He is not your doctor with regards to issues surrounding the FAA medical exam. 2) HIPAA makes allowances for regulatory disclosures which is how the doc appeared to phrase it..

This is not a HIPAA issue. Period. But the doctor clearly has some professional credibility and ethics issues in my opinion.
 
I find this story hard to believe. No doctor takes the time to talk a patient on the phone. Ever. They can't bill insurance for it.
 
Sue him in small claims court for the amount I spent doing all these things, let other pilots know who this scumbag is, if you are ambitious, hire an attorney

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Salty said:
I find this story hard to believe. No doctor takes the time to talk a patient on the phone. Ever. They can't bill insurance for it.
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I just find it interesting that somebody would tell an AME he's wrong about a diagnosis, and that he's going to find an AME that will give a different diagnosis, and expect nothing to come of it.

It's like FSDO shopping to find out if a certain operation is legal, and when they say it isn't, you tell them you're going to keep FSDO shopping until you get the answer you want.

That may be what you're doing, but it demonstrates poor judgment to tell the FAA(or their representative) that's what you're doing.
 
netsurfr said:
2 years ago when I went to renew my 3rd class I used an AME and told him that I got bronchitis as a result of a virus infection and as part of the temporary treatment I was given abuterol to use if needed. No big deal and went back to MD 1 month later and all clear of the mild asthma so in firther treatment or visit needed. The AME made me go get a pulmonary function test and results were fine so got my medical. Last mont i called him to schedule my renewal and first thing he tells me on he phone is did I go see a pulmonary specialist yet before I schedule the visit with him. I tell/remind him that it was an isolated issue and that I have not needed any further visits or treatment and that according to FAA info I do not need any special tests if I'm not under any medication. He then gets annoyed with my response and simply says "I'm not going opts argue with you. You need a specialist". At that point I decide I don't want to go back to this guy as I had reservations about him from the prior visit and with his comment I got the feeling this guy is making more of this than it needs to be so I tell him thanks but I will not be scheduling my visit with him and at was that. I scheduled with another AME disclosed the "asthma/bronchitis" incident i had in 2014 and he sees no problem or need to see specialists so issues my medical. Well 3 weeks later I get letter from FAA saying they want more info about my asthma! Long story short turned out the original AME wrote a letter to the FAA saying that I opted not to visit him and that I was likely trying to find an AME who would sign me off! Fortunately I worked with an AME who was suspicious of things and ordered my FAA medical and this is where we found a copy of the letter the AME wrote to the FAA. I had to go back to the MD I saw in 2014 to ask that he give me a checkup and write his assessment (in which he said I had an isolated incident due to virus and have required no medication or treatment and my lungs are at 100%). After all this being submitted to FAA they wrote back saying everything is fine and that they agree with new AME and my MD that I'm fine so got my medical BUT I'm livid about this AME basically trying to have the FAA flag my medical.

Is there any formal complaint one can file on AME's?
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Imagine how safe the roads would be if drivers had to pass a medical to drive a car on the roads....
 
MauleSkinner said:
I just find it interesting that somebody would tell an AME he's wrong about a diagnosis, and that he's going to find an AME that will give a different diagnosis, and expect nothing to come of it.

It's like FSDO shopping to find out if a certain operation is legal, and when they say it isn't, you tell them you're going to keep FSDO shopping until you get the answer you want.

That may be what you're doing, but it demonstrates poor judgment to tell the FAA(or their representative) that's what you're doing.
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Second opinions in the medical realm are acceptable, though. Why would asking for another doctor's opinion in this case be any different?
 
mkosmo said:
Second opinions in the medical realm are acceptable, though. Why would asking for another doctor's opinion in this case be any different?
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Because an AME is not treating you. A medical cert is not a diagnosis but a testament that a standard is met.

You don't get a second opinion on a check ride...
 
MauleSkinner said:
I just find it interesting that somebody would tell an AME he's wrong about a diagnosis, and that he's going to find an AME that will give a different diagnosis, and expect nothing to come of it.

It's like FSDO shopping to find out if a certain operation is legal, and when they say it isn't, you tell them you're going to keep FSDO shopping until you get the answer you want.

That may be what you're doing, but it demonstrates poor judgment to tell the FAA(or their representative) that's what you're doing.
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I think you need to go read the OP again. Original AME didn't diagnose anything, merely requested tests the first time. And it isn't "AME shopping" when the second one is Dr. Bruce.
 
And I find it interesting that there are people that don't bother to read a full thread to get up to speed on the FACTS before they post their opinion. Go figure!

MauleSkinner said:
I just find it interesting that somebody would tell an AME he's wrong about a diagnosis, and that he's going to find an AME that will give a different diagnosis, and expect nothing to come of it.

It's like FSDO shopping to find out if a certain operation is legal, and when they say it isn't, you tell them you're going to keep FSDO shopping until you get the answer you want.

That may be what you're doing, but it demonstrates poor judgment to tell the FAA(or their representative) that's what you're doing.
Click to expand...
 
MauleSkinner said:
I just find it interesting that somebody would tell an AME he's wrong about a diagnosis, and that he's going to find an AME that will give a different diagnosis, and expect nothing to come of it....
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I thought that diagnoses were supposed to come from the applicant's treating physicians, not AMEs.
 
This thread is quite OLD now and back in focus because the same AME apparently tried to screw over another pilot recently so someone posted recently about the latest incident with this AME. If you are interested in commenting or passing judgement on who's right/wrong at least READ the entire thread to get up to speed on the situation before you post.
 
netsurfr said:
This thread is quite OLD now and back in focus because the same AME apparently tried to screw over another pilot recently so someone posted recently about the latest incident with this AME. If you are interested in commenting or passing judgement on who's right/wrong at least READ the entire thread to get up to speed on the situation before you post.
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Just to be clear, my post was in jest.
 
Clark1961 said:
Because an AME is not treating you. A medical cert is not a diagnosis but a testament that a standard is met.

You don't get a second opinion on a check ride...
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Sounds like that AME was trying to diagnose in this case, but regardless, they're attesting that you satisfy the requirements, in their opinion. A second opinion should always be an option... and if it wasn't, why let the RFS or even CAMI have any say beyond the AME? AMEs can and will make mistakes.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think you need to go read the OP again. Original AME didn't diagnose anything, merely requested tests the first time. And it isn't "AME shopping" when the second one is Dr. Bruce.
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He also demanded tests the second time. And it sounds to me like Dr. Bruce was the third AME to be involved.
 
netsurfr said:
This thread is quite OLD now and back in focus because the same AME apparently tried to screw over another pilot recently so someone posted recently about the latest incident with this AME. If you are interested in commenting or passing judgement on who's right/wrong at least READ the entire thread to get up to speed on the situation before you post.
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It appears that the second incident involved the same AME as the one that was posted last year. Thanks for the heads up that there are two incidents being discussed.
 
That's correct except there are now 3 incidents around this AME that I'm aware of.

Palmpilot said:
It appears that the second incident involved the same AME as the one that was posted last year. Thanks for the heads up that there are two incidents being discussed.
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You can ruffle feathers without committing libel or hiring a lawyer, if you are really annoyed - if you're registered to vote, and you have voted recently, ping your congressman and senator (their staff probably will ignore if you if you aren't an active voter). Spend a little time researching what the FAA has for filing complaints, as well. Do the complaint, and also a letter to the Administrator, CC'ing your elected reps.

If you post just the facts, and make it clear what part is opinion - "here is the letter - para 2 and para 3 are not true" - "In my opinion this AME was acting in bad faith" - that's all protected speech.

As someone posted, the AME is a FAA front man/woman; the AME is not/not your doctor.
 
Sundancer said:
You can ruffle feathers without committing libel or hiring a lawyer, if you are really annoyed - if you're registered to vote, and you have voted recently, ping your congressman and senator (their staff probably will ignore if you if you aren't an active voter). Spend a little time researching what the FAA has for filing complaints, as well. Do the complaint, and also a letter to the Administrator, CC'ing your elected reps.

If you post just the facts, and make it clear what part is opinion - "here is the letter - para 2 and para 3 are not true" - "In my opinion this AME was acting in bad faith" - that's all protected speech.

As someone posted, the AME is a FAA front man/woman; the AME is not/not your doctor.
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You mean congessional pricks interested only in personal power won't properly "represent" someone not registered to vote or who voted against them???

Surely you jest. They're all saints and would do it out of their deep commitment to public service no matter if a Citizen voted or not.

;)
 
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