G5 install today

[GBSoren]

I'm having a Garmin G5 installed today, they said it'll only take about 4 hrs but expect to be complete tomorrow just to be safe. I wanted them to squeeze me in for a Garmin 345 at the same time but they just didn't have the time for that. He did say as long as he has to get to the Garmin 430W anyway he'd run the wires to the transponder area from the 430, that way when we decide to do the 345 the install will go quicker.

Has anyone been able to sell there used attitude indicator after replacing it? Just curious if there is a market for them. Mine is working perfectly, just decided to start upgrading my panel a little at a time.

I'm excited to get it back, I'll post pix, final costs and my initial impressions when it's complete.

 

[Salty]

I installed a G5 recently and it was pretty easy. I'd expect them to get it done in one day. I don't have a gps in the plane, so I needed an antennae installed, which took far longer than replacing the old AI with the G5. My AI was failing, so I would have to get it overhauled before selling it, so I haven't decided if I'll bother with that or use it as a paperweight.

 

[Radar Contact]

I'm having a Garmin G5 installed today, they said it'll only take about 4 hrs but expect to be complete tomorrow just to be safe. I wanted them to squeeze me in for a Garmin 345 at the same time but they just didn't have the time for that. He did say as long as he has to get to the Garmin 430W anyway he'd run the wires to the transponder area from the 430, that way when we decide to do the 345 the install will go quicker.

Has anyone been able to sell there used attitude indicator after replacing it? Just curious if there is a market for them. Mine is working perfectly, just decided to start upgrading my panel a little at a time.

I'm excited to get it back, I'll post pix, final costs and my initial impressions when it's complete.

Dropped mine off yesterday afternoon for the same installation today! I'm keeping the AI as it drives the autopilot and the turn coordinator as it drives the yaw damper but I'm getting rid of a secondary altimeter it had. I asked him what's it worth and he laughed. Looks like I have a desk weight. Also asked what the 327 is worth for when I install the 345. He said he has a stack to the ceiling of them. He said he wish he had them 5+ years ago cause they were selling like hot cakes.

 

[Ted]

You can always check eBay and put it on. You might get a few hundred bucks.

 

[NordicDave]

I spoke with Aspen at Sun N Fun this year, asked them about the G5.

Aspen had to be the most arrogant company at the event. They were clearly defensive and tired about customers asking when they were going to lower their prices to compete with the G5.

Apsen guys launched into a mini tirade without taking a breath, about how their VFR version was only $4995, and upgradeable to the IRF version, and that they are price competitive. I asked about installed pricing in that G5's take 2-4 hours and the Aspen was 20-25 hours. Real bunker mentality.

As I left the Aspen booth, another plane owner asked "how dose your product compare the the G5, how is it impacting your prices". Aspen guy took a breath and ramped up again.

 

[bnt83]

I spoke with Aspen at Sun N Fun this year, asked them about the G5.

Aspen had to be the most arrogant company at the event. They were clearly defensive and tired about customers asking when they were going to lower their prices to compete with the G5.

Apsen guys launched into a mini tirade without taking a breath, about how their VFR version was only $4995, and upgradeable to the IRF version, and that they are price competitive. I asked about installed pricing in that G5's take 2-4 hours and the Aspen was 20-25 hours. Real bunker mentality.

As I left the Aspen booth, another plane owner asked "how dose your product compare the the G5, how is it impacting your prices". Aspen guy took a breath and ramped up again.

Lol dual G5s will NOT take 2-4 hours. Thats just daydreaming. Nothing but dual G5 is anywhere near Aspen capability.

The problem is that most owners really don't know whats going on behind the panel or have any real clue what it takes to install. They aren't knowledgeble enough make a solid comparrision of different equipment either.

 

[Salty]

Lol dual G5s will NOT take 2-4 hours. Thats just daydreaming. Nothing but dual G5 is anywhere near Aspen capability.

The problem is that most owners really don't know whats going on behind the panel or have any real clue what it takes to install. They aren't knowledgeble enough make a solid comparrision of different equipment either.

True. It's still a lot less than 20 hours though.

 

[bnt83]

True. It's still a lot less than 20 hours though.

I wouldn't bid less than that for a dual G5s with GMU11 magnetometer and the GAD29 adapter. They aren't even shipping yet so its all a WAG. (I have read the STC install manual tho.)

There are shops bidding $2k labor just for a transponder swap to ADS-B out (transponder with internal GPS).

Getting the GMU11 to pass calibration after installing it in the "most magnetically quiet" spot on the airplane looks to me like it could prove very troublesome. Then of course it will be subject to interference long after the papers are signed. All it will take to mess it up will be a magnetic tipped screwdriver used on a fastener near the GMU11 during unrelated maintenance.

 

[Salty]

I wouldn't bid less than that for a dual G5s with GMU11 magnetometer and the GAD29 adapter. They aren't even shipping yet so its all a WAG.

There are shops bidding $2k labor just for a transponder swap to ADS-B out (transponder with internal GPS).

Getting the GMU11 to pass calibration after installing it the "most magnetically quiet" spot on the airplane looks to me like it could prove very troublesome.

I guess. I can't see how it could actually take that much time. I installed my G5 myself with guidance from my a&p with zero prior experience and I had to install a gps antennae as well, which required removing the entire interior. Not having a clue what I was doing, and over planning every step, it didn't take me more than about 6 hours. Now that I know a little about what I'm doing I could do it again in less than 4 probably. Yes, the magnetometer will be more difficult, but it shouldn't take 20 hours to install.

Then again, I don't think an aspen should take 20 hours, so I'm not even sure why I'm arguing.

 

[bnt83]

The Aspen can inteface with a lot more stuff, depending on what all the airplane has already, 20 hours doesn't seem too bad.

 

[GRG55]

I guess. I can't see how it could actually take that much time. I installed my G5 myself with guidance from my a&p with zero prior experience and I had to install a gps antennae as well, which required removing the entire interior. Not having a clue what I was doing, and over planning every step, it didn't take me more than about 6 hours. Now that I know a little about what I'm doing I could do it again in less than 4 probably. Yes, the magnetometer will be more difficult, but it shouldn't take 20 hours to install.

Then again, I don't think an aspen should take 20 hours, so I'm not even sure why I'm arguing.

Let's see, you removed the entire interior, removed your old vacuum driven AI, tapped in to the pitot-static for airspeed and altitude on the G5, ran a new power source to run the electric gyro G5, installed the instrument in the panel, installed a new GPS antenna (with doubler?) and coax, recertified the pitot-static system, re-tested the vacuum system after plugging the old AI connections, re-installed the interior, relabelled the circuit breaker, prepared the correct logbook entries for signature by the person overseeing your work...and did that all in six hours?

There's probably two dozen maintenance shops that would love to hire you with that productivity rate.

 

[bnt83]

Let's see, you removed the entire interior, removed your old vacuum driven AI, tapped in to the pitot-static for airspeed and altitude on the G5, ran a new power source to run the electric gyro G5, installed the instrument in the panel, installed a new GPS antenna (with doubler?) and coax, recertified the pitot-static system, re-tested the vacuum system after plugging the old AI connections, re-installed the interior, relabelled the circuit breaker, prepared the correct logbook entries for signature by the person overseeing your work...and did that all in six hours?

There's probably two dozen maintenance shops that would love to hire you with that productivity rate.

I think you're supposed to jack and level the airplane to set the instrument. Do the engine vibration analysis test.

+ Equipment List and Weight & Balance revisions, electrical load analysis, complete the 337 and mail it.

Measuring out spacing, fabricating a proper antenna doubler and installing it would take a few hours alone. Then install the antenna and seal it.

 

[Salty]

I didn't have to remove vacuum pump in my case. But that would add time.

 

[GBSoren]

I got my plane back today, $3200 total cost for G5 and install, more than I was hoping but they also ran wires from my 430w to the transponder area, so when I do the ADS-b upgrade (garmin 345) that part is done, so install of that should be much quicker. I took a quick picture of the panel on the flight home, didn't turn out well because I was flying into the sun.

 

[hindsight2020]

There's a 10 knot discrepancy between your primary and electronic airspeed indications. Thats pretty bad for an pitot static nstallation that literally just got tapped into. Might want to get that checked out. I don't know what airplane you fly but thats between 150 and 160 kts True at that altitude , depending on which airspeed indication is accurate for your power setting.

 

[GBSoren]

There's a 10 knot discrepancy between your primary and electronic airspeed indications. Thats pretty bad for an pitot static nstallation that literally just got tapped into. Might want to get that checked out. I don't know what airplane you fly but thats between 150 and 160 kts True at that altitude , depending on which airspeed indication is accurate for your power setting.

I noticed that on the flight home as well. It's only about a 15 minute flight from where i had it done to my home airport so I didn't have time to play with the G5 much. I have to get my log book to them anyway so they can update it, I'll let them know and see if they can get it fixed.

 

[murphey]

I noticed that on the flight home as well. It's only about a 15 minute flight from where i had it done to my home airport so I didn't have time to play with the G5 much. I have to get my log book to them anyway so they can update it, I'll let them know and see if they can get it fixed.

Does the shop need the books to do any research on previous work? If not, ask them to write up the log entries on sticky labels and you'll put them in the books. I don't let my logbooks out of my sight unless I trust the shop very well. But then I've scanned all the log books and the shop I use has a set so it can always do the research. When the work is done, the stickies are enclosed with the bill.

 

[GBSoren]

Does the shop need the books to do any research on previous work? If not, ask them to write up the log entries on sticky labels and you'll put them in the books. I don't let my logbooks out of my sight unless I trust the shop very well. But then I've scanned all the log books and the shop I use has a set so it can always do the research. When the work is done, the stickies are enclosed with the bill.

I'm not sure how they'll update the log book, but I won't leave it with them. They also need the POH (for weight and balance), which was in the plane but I couldn't find it until I got back to home. I should have been more organised. Luckily it's only a 15 minute flight!

 

[GBSoren]

Okay, I talked to the shop that installed the G5 and told them about the discrepancy between my primary and the G5's airspeed. He said they've seen it before, and almost always it's been the primary is off. The G5's come pre-calibrated from the factory and are usually correct. They'll test them both when I bring down my log books.

 

[Salty]

How long has it been since you've had a pitot static test done?

 

[kgruber]

Here's the first flight of the G5 equipped 1956 Cessna 180.

 

[Salty]

Here's the first flight of the G5 equipped 1956 Cessna 180.

I considered switching to knots on my G5 but I didn't have the guts. I felt it was better to keep it in sync with the steam gauge (and all the v speeds I have in memory)

 

[bnt83]

I considered switching to knots on my G5 but I didn't have the guts. I felt it was better to keep it in sync with the steam gauge (and all the v speeds I have in memory)

For obvious reasons the STC says the G5 settings must match units and values given in the placards, AFM, TCDS etc.

 

[focal_plane]

I spoke with Aspen at Sun N Fun this year, asked them about the G5.

Aspen had to be the most arrogant company at the event. They were clearly defensive and tired about customers asking when they were going to lower their prices to compete with the G5.

Apsen guys launched into a mini tirade without taking a breath, about how their VFR version was only $4995, and upgradeable to the IRF version, and that they are price competitive. I asked about installed pricing in that G5's take 2-4 hours and the Aspen was 20-25 hours. Real bunker mentality.

As I left the Aspen booth, another plane owner asked "how dose your product compare the the G5, how is it impacting your prices". Aspen guy took a breath and ramped up again.

Sounds familiar to an experience we had in OSH. Timeframe was just after Aspen was entering the marketplace. The Aspen marketeers were so smug and condescending, it just turned us off completely to their product. And we found our steam gauges still worked well for our mission. However, the G5 is very interesting...........

 

[Timbeck2]

I'm just wondering why the G5 replaces the attitude indicator OR the turn and bank. Both are on the screen at the same time. Seems like it should be able to replace both.

 

[exncsurfer]

I'm just wondering why the G5 replaces the attitude indicator OR the turn and bank. Both are on the screen at the same time. Seems like it should be able to replace both.

And leave what, a hole? Aren't they just saying you can choose one of those to remove and replace as it only occupies one space?

 

[Timbeck2]

Rather open UP a hole for something else, such as a fuel flow meter. I'd like to see language in the G5 description that says it replaces both instead of one or the other.

 

[AWACSEng]

I think some people are leaving one or the other (or both) in the panel because the G5 isn't certified to drive an autopilot. Depending on the source required for the existing autopilot may be driving the choice.

 

[Timbeck2]

Agreed Bill, but I don't have an autopilot. I'd just like to see something definitive that states I can replace both the AI and the turn coordinator with the G5 in an airplane such as mine.

The only thing I've found is in response to a question in the FAQ section of Spruce's website:

Can the Garmin G5 also replace my directional gyro?
No, this STC only approves the G5 as a primary replacement for attitude display and / or turn coordinator.

I don't have access to the STC approval letter until I actually buy the G5 and the code which lets me download same. So I've never actually seen the wording except for the above. If someone has the STC and would verify, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Salty]

Agreed Bill, but I don't have an autopilot. I'd just like to see something definitive that states I can replace both the AI and the turn coordinator with the G5 in an airplane such as mine.

I'm no expert, and I'm not claiming it makes sense, but as I understand it, it's because a failure of the G5 would result in the loss of all primary attitude indication. With an electric or vacuum turn and bank, you'll still be able to stay level without the G5.

 

[hindsight2020]

I know shiny is all the rage aorund here, but I like my attitude information to be a bit more modular in these spam cans. To each their own. At least a second AI vacuum driven.

 

[bnt83]

Agreed Bill, but I don't have an autopilot. I'd just like to see something definitive that states I can replace both the AI and the turn coordinator with the G5 in an airplane such as mine.

The only thing I've found is in response to a question in the FAQ section of Spruce's website:

Can the Garmin G5 also replace my directional gyro?
No, this STC only approves the G5 as a primary replacement for attitude display and / or turn coordinator.

I don't have access to the STC approval letter until I actually buy the G5 and the code which lets me download same. So I've never actually seen the wording except for the above. If someone has the STC and would verify, I'd appreciate it.

One STCed G5 can replace the aittude indicator or turn coordinator / turn & bank.

One STCed G5 can replace the DG. This G5 can be hooked to other Garmin radios to make it an HSI. Any radio interfaced to the G5 HSI cannot have a mechanical CDI installed, they must be removed per STC.

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-13_02.pdf

You can install any combination of G5 (attitude or DG/HSI) in any order, or either one without the other.

http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-12_02.pdf

 

[Timbeck2]

Thanks Brian

"Use of Secondary Instruments
The original type design approved instruments for airspeed, altitude and vertical speed remain the primary
indications for these parameters.
If the G5 Electronic Flight Instrument is installed in place of the rate of turn indicator, the original type design approved instrument for attitude remains in the primary indication for attitude.
If the G5 Electronic Flight Instrument is installed in place of the directional gyro, the original type design approved
instruments for attitude remains the primary indication for attitude"

So I guess the Spruce answer is incorrect.

 

[bnt83]

Thanks Brian

"Use of Secondary Instruments
The original type design approved instruments for airspeed, altitude and vertical speed remain the primary
indications for these parameters.
If the G5 Electronic Flight Instrument is installed in place of the rate of turn indicator, the original type design approved instrument for attitude remains in the primary indication for attitude.
If the G5 Electronic Flight Instrument is installed in place of the directional gyro, the original type design approved
instruments for attitude remains the primary indication for attitude"

So I guess the Spruce answer is incorrect.

It is an old answer, before the release of revision 5 to the STC. The G5 DG/HSI was approved after the attitude G5 was.

 

[Glenn D]

I'm looking forward to installing -2- G5's one day... both my AI and DG have issues, and have need of improvements... and it may even help my autopilot fly better!... I have one of those old Man-U-Well systems that seem to wander all over the place. STC's improvements are a great thing.

 

[Timbeck2]

I know shiny is all the rage aorund here, but I like my attitude information to be a bit more modular in these spam cans. To each their own. At least a second AI vacuum driven.

Considering that a new AI will cost more than a G5, it is a no brainer for me at least. I'll pay less than someone who has to buy an additional GPS antenna because I have one already installed for some reason.

 

[bnt83]

Considering that a new AI will cost more than a G5, it is a no brainer for me at least. I'll pay less than someone who has to buy an additional GPS antenna because I have one already installed for some reason.

Are you sure it's an acceptable antenna and installation (location) per the STC?

That all aside if you were to use the GTX335 w/GPS for ADS-B out it can send the GPS data to the G5 meaning share one antenna. Garmin has some brilliant interconnectivity goIng on with the new GTX3x5 transponders, Nav radios, and these shiny instruments.

 

[Timbeck2]

My avionics wizard told me that the antenna I have will work for the G5. Its a Garmin GA 56 and mounted right above my nugget on top of the plane.

 

[bnt83]

My avionics wizard told me that the antenna I have will work for the G5. Its a Garmin GA 35 and mounted right above my nugget on top of the plane.

That should save you some $ at the next install.

 

[Timbeck2]

It is really puzzling to me why the G5 can replace an attitude indicator AND directional gyro but although turn and bank is also displayed, it can't replace an attitude indicator AND a turn and bank.

From Garmin's site:

The G5 electronic flight instrument delivers exceptional performance, reliability and ease of installation as a drop-in replacement for primary attitude and/or directional gyros in type-certificated fixed-wing aircraft...

Unless of course, they mean two installed G5s when they state "and."