It's Official: Started PPL training today! Learning in our 182

Sinistar

Sinistar

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Brad
Hi Everyone,

Well its official, first hour in the log book :) That hour went really, really fast, seemed like it took 5 minutes!!! The instructor is about 10 years older than me and he seems pretty no-non-sense. We've owned the plane for about 9 months now and I have about 12 flights sitting the right seat trying to taking it all in. Felt so different sitting in the left seat, starting the plane and flying left handed instead of right. Learned a couple things about pre-flight I never would have expected. He also flew with my wife so they could get to know each other and the plane.

I wanted to start lessons so bad right after we got the plane but I'm glad we got the kinks worked out, had time to just enjoy it as a family and lots of time to discuss training and find the instructor.

Each instructor I spoke with did recommend learning in the 182 vs a 172 or Archer as it will be the plane I will eventually fly. Clearly it will take more time to learn. The FBO will be charging an additional $5/hr of instructor time for not using their plane. To use our plane, their chief A&P had to review all logs for AD compliance and we had to add the FBO to our Avemco policy during the training (adds bout $250/yr).

One funny thing about insurance. Since my wife has over 3,000hrs including instrument, HP, complex, multi, etc I am now on the insurance already with no hours and the premium did not change at all!

Last topic: Tablets in the cockpit during instruction. I was somewhat surprised when he said he thought it was great. The only time I ever even looked at it was when the screen saver went on and he asked how to see the map again. My approach will be to always mount it, connect to the external GPS, start up Pilot (as we would always do)....but then never use it or interact with it unless he prompts me to do so. I'm wondering, maybe the FBO planes have glass cockpits so this perhaps gives him something similar.

Thanks to everyone on the forum for all the help so far regarding aircraft ownership. Its nice to turn the corner and start learning how to fly :)

ps. Thanks also to Dr.Chien for his assistance regarding one potential medical issue, it was probably never a big deal....he sure knows his stuff...I did everything exactly as he said and it was signed in the AME's office.

==== UPDATE: I'M A PILOT!!! =====
Start: 4/17/2017
Finished: 2/2/2018
Age: 50 yrs old
Calendar Time: 41 weeks
Unable To Fly: ~5 weeks (Wx,Work Travel, Family Vacation, Annual, TC Repair)
Available Time: 36 weeks
Total Instructors: 2
Total Flights: 78 (CFI#1=41, CFI#2=8, Solo=28, DPE=1)​
Total Time: 100.2hrs
Total Dual Received: 70.6hrs (CFI#1=54.3, CFI#2=16.3)
Solo(PIC) Time: 29.6hrs
Solo At: 26hrs​
Dual Cross Country: 8.7 (CFI#1=7.6, CFI#2=1.1)
Solo Cross Country: 5.9hrs
Instrument Time: 3.4hrs (CFI#1=3.1, CFI#2=0.3, DPE=0.2)
Night Dual: 4.3hrs (CFI#1=3.2, CFI#2=1.1)
Night Landings: 14 (CFI#1=11, CFI#2=3)
Total Airports: 21 (Towered=4, Uncontrolled=17)
Grass Strips: 2
Total Landings: ~340 (best guess)
Total Miles Flown: ~9400 (best guess)
Total Fuel Used: ~1050 gallons
Total Fuel Cost: $4600
3rd Class Medical: $170
Total Instructor Fees: $4600
King Ground School: $210
Airman Knowledge Test: $125(??forget??)
Books & Charts: $150
DPE Exam Fee: $450
Additional Hangar Costs: $900
Repairs: 2 tires, turn coordinator
Annuals: 1
Endorsements: HP
Main Challenges: #1-First Solo, #2-Crosswind Landing, #3-Switching Instructors.
 
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Congrats on getting started. I doubt the 182 will take a whole lot more time than learning in the 172. You've really only got the prop and cowl flaps to manage besides the usual stuff, and the 182 is a pussycat -- just hold that "heavy" nose up when landing (use trim often and whenever you need it!) and she'll treat you right.

I suspect one other thing your instructor will have you do is at least one flight really heavily loaded later in your training also, to see how the airplane behaviors change a bit when it's heeeeeeavy. If they don't, be sure to ask them to later on. It lands a bit differently when rear-loaded heavy. You can simulate it with a few cases of water bottles or similar loaded in the cargo area, to get the center of gravity much further aft.

You'll also learn when to interact with the iPad and when it's a distraction. There's times when you'll need info from it, and other times you just ignore it. Example: On my Commercial Single engine add on checkrides mine was mounted to my side window with my dual auction cup RAM mount that I love using, but it was my home airport so it was there for a Taxi Diagram I technically didn't need (but have it up for safety reasons anyway) and then switched to map mode but barely looked at the entire flight. I know the landmarks where the Bravo shelf is located and home airport frequencies are memorized. But it sat there doing its thing in case I needed something from it.

Sounds like you're about to have a lot of fun. Keep us posted on how it's going!

Oh and I bet your wife knows you'll probably be buying the airplane a new set of tires after lots of student landings... hahaha... don't worry, they're not *horribly* expensive! Hahahaha.
 
Congratulations! It sounds like you are in a unique and fortitous position to enjoy a great airplane. Enjoy your learning and be patient as you begin practicing landings over and over again!
 
Thanks for all the support! We do feel fortunate in owning this airplane, took a few years of planning, debating and saving.

If you asked me the one thing I am the most anxious about, its the landing and the base and final leading up to it. I can't wait to learn it and expect to be frustrated and enlightened...often :)

Funny thing about the tires, we thought we had budgeted for everything, totally forgot to allocate for a new set of tires!

I will definitely jot down in my notes to ask/suggest regarding heavy landing and heavier loading aft. I'm about 1.5x the average FAA weight but my wife, daughter and instructor are all FAA average or below so we've never really had the plane anywhere near MTOW or near the CG envelope. When I sit in back my wife said she can tell a difference during landing but didn't seem to phase her at all so probably not enough aft moment yet to experience what you are suggesting.

BTW: Things learned on the first flight
- I can taxi pretty well (had previous practice) but have been using the brakes too much
- Along with the brakes, I have been trying to turn to sharp (instructor is watching out for our tires!)
- My wife and the instructor fly the letdown, downwind, base and final differently w/r to prop, flaps and speeds.
- With power off I knew to pitch for 80mph but was quite surprised on how much time I felt I had descending
- Flying terribly out of the trim, it takes WAY, WAY MORE strength to push/pull the yoke than I would have expected.
- Different pilots view checklists differently (for some its a strict 'DO' list and for some its a 'MAKE SURE DID IT' list)
- Learned a few new things regarding spotting damage to the AC during preflight.

The instructor threw me a great/subtle test. Brought up a entirely different topic than actually flying the airplane. I took the bait and 30 seconds later he asked about my heading and altitude...busted :) A good discussion afterwards regarding keeping an eye on the horizon and instruments while communicating, not just one or the other.
 
Always good to learn in your own plane. Funny how the FBO "owns" the instructor. He must have signed a contract that he can't freelance on his own. My instructor worked for a flight school which charged $50 an hour for the instructor and they gave him $13. I paid him $20 and breakfast every flight day.
 
Update: Week #1 Finished

Was able to get in 3 flights and now up to 4.5hrs. Instructor is working me hard / recap:
- Too many turns to remember!
- Deeply humbled by yoke force required when severly out of trim
- Worst altitude change on a 720deg turn with altimeter covered was +250ft, best was -100ft.
- Started turning climbs yesterday, I'm better at the turn than holding speed in the climb
- Many cycles of pulling all power, hold best glide down -1000ft then back to cruise
- Controlling mixture, prop, manifold and cowl flaps over and over again
- Starting some radio work, better at in-flight comms' than taxing instructions
- Pretty good at taxiing, he will probably sign me off for taxiing from hangar to FBO once I master the ground radio read backs
- 3rd takeoff I pretty much did it myself but I over corrected right rudder
- The 3rd lesson I did pretty good on flying to the airport, downwind, base and did line us up nice for the final. Definitely not ready to actually land it yet
- Getting better are pre-flighting before he arrives.
- Its nice when full-serve low lead is only 15cents more than our local self serve.
- NOTAM's regarding birds should be taken seriously! On last two flights I thought we were darned close. Yesterday I thought it was two blackbirds ahead at about 1000AGL, turned out to be 2 bald eagles which we past about 75ft to the right and almost wing level.
- Finally: Is it just me or is the 182 really nose heavy and needs a good amount of right rudder during takeoff?
 
Sinistar said:
- Pretty good at taxiing, he will probably sign me off for taxiing from hangar to FBO once I master the ground radio read backs
- Finally: Is it just me or is the 182 really nose heavy and needs a good amount of right rudder during takeoff?
Click to expand...

What sign off is needed to taxi YOUR plane in a non-movement area? Or even if you do need to use a movement area? I'm not aware of such restriction.
Also, your FBO should be your former FBO soon. Charging you more for not renting their plane? Why doesn't your CFI come to your hangar and launch from there? Strange set-up.

The right rudder on take-off is probably related to the power of the engine, rather than its weight relative to the CG. Nose heavy relates to the forward weight.
The extra _____ from the power of the engine at full power relates to the amount of rudder needed on take-off roll. <- test question

It is a load of fun, so enjoy it. And you're lucky to already have a sweet machine at your disposal.
 
Sinistar said:
- Finally: Is it just me or is the 182 really nose heavy and needs a good amount of right rudder during takeoff?
Click to expand...

The 182 I've flown has a 310 HP upgrade.. always seemed to use a lot of right rudder on take off.
 
Every 182 needs a lot of right rudder on takeoff.

Eventually, you will think your name is "more right rudder."
 
Always heard a P51 will roll over on it's back during takeoff/liftoff due to torque.
 
Sinistar said:
- Deeply humbled by yoke force required when severly out of trim

- Finally: Is it just me or is the 182 really nose heavy and needs a good amount of right rudder during takeoff?
Click to expand...

The first line made me LOL. So funny. Yup. You can make it go the other way too. Crank in full up trim at idle and then do a go-around with full power. (Can be quite dangerous if you're not ready to PUUUUUUUUSH on the yoke and simultaneously reach for the trim wheel to get all that up trim out.)

Cheat on the second one. Use the rudder trim. Two wheel cranks to the right works well. Then take it out in cruise as the airplane speeds up. Can usually leave it in all the way to cruise in the climb. Same thing with elevator trim. Can crank a little bit more up trim than the "takeoff" marking and the airplane will fly off beautifully with just a light tug on the yoke and stabilize at a reasonable climb speed.

If doing T&Gs you get to choose on the rudder trim. Leave it mostly centered and push on the right rudder during the climb out, or leave it cranked right a little and apply a tiny bit of left rudder in the downwind when you're going a little faster. Like kinda just resting your foot on the left rudder pedal. It doesn't take much.

I like the latter because if it's a short field, the power is probably coming back up on final once I have Flap 40 out and I'll need right rudder again.

But if it's a power off 180 or normal landing with very little power I'll have to leave that left foot "resting" on the left rudder pedal. It's very subtle. You see the nose moving ever so slightly any direction (left or right) you just connect your feet to that motion and stop it. So I usually take most of the right rudder trim back out in the downwind. Just depends on what's next. Or as Rod Machado says, "The next two things."

After a while it becomes automatic and then somewhere when you have a ridiculous amount of rudder trim in and don't need it, your subconscious says, "Something isn't right here" after one of your feet has been pressing for a while. "Oh, rudder trim."

Very few new 182 pilots do I see them even touching the rudder trim. It's there to help. Most haven't seen one before so they leave it in the takeoff mark.

Most heavier Cessnas the trim wheels are the key to really smooth flying. Any time you touch power or change from a climb, to level, to descent, reach for the trim.
 
MAKG1 said:
Every 182 needs a lot of right rudder on takeoff.

Eventually, you will think your name is "more right rudder."
Click to expand...
I already have that name in a 172. these days I have to remember to easy my right foot while driving..might get a ticket soon
 
Sinistar said:
Thanks for all the support! We do feel fortunate in owning this airplane, took a few years of planning, debating and saving.

If you asked me the one thing I am the most anxious about, its the landing and the base and final leading up to it. I can't wait to learn it and expect to be frustrated and enlightened...often :)

Funny thing about the tires, we thought we had budgeted for everything, totally forgot to allocate for a new set of tires!

I will definitely jot down in my notes to ask/suggest regarding heavy landing and heavier loading aft. I'm about 1.5x the average FAA weight but my wife, daughter and instructor are all FAA average or below so we've never really had the plane anywhere near MTOW or near the CG envelope. When I sit in back my wife said she can tell a difference during landing but didn't seem to phase her at all so probably not enough aft moment yet to experience what you are suggesting.

BTW: Things learned on the first flight
- I can taxi pretty well (had previous practice) but have been using the brakes too much
- Along with the brakes, I have been trying to turn to sharp (instructor is watching out for our tires!)
- My wife and the instructor fly the letdown, downwind, base and final differently w/r to prop, flaps and speeds.
- With power off I knew to pitch for 80mph but was quite surprised on how much time I felt I had descending
- Flying terribly out of the trim, it takes WAY, WAY MORE strength to push/pull the yoke than I would have expected.
- Different pilots view checklists differently (for some its a strict 'DO' list and for some its a 'MAKE SURE DID IT' list)
- Learned a few new things regarding spotting damage to the AC during preflight.

The instructor threw me a great/subtle test. Brought up a entirely different topic than actually flying the airplane. I took the bait and 30 seconds later he asked about my heading and altitude...busted :) A good discussion afterwards regarding keeping an eye on the horizon and instruments while communicating, not just one or the other.
Click to expand...
You're ahead of a lot of new students if you know what a downwind and base is. Sounds like you're having fun, enjoy!
 
Ravioli said:
What sign off is needed to taxi YOUR plane in a non-movement area? Or even if you do need to use a movement area? I'm not aware of such restriction.
Also, your FBO should be your former FBO soon. Charging you more for not renting their plane? Why doesn't your CFI come to your hangar and launch from there? Strange set-up.
Click to expand...
To go anywhere from our hangar we need to get ground clearance to cross the threshold so it must be a movement area. The instructor said this would be a special sign off to only taxi from our hangar to their FBO. Fortunately it does not cross any of the other runways and is a rather simple taxi. The instructor is meeting me at the hangar but said on occasion would be nice to meet at their building to use the whiteboards, etc either before or after the flight.

Ravioli said:
The right rudder on take-off is probably related to the power of the engine, rather than its weight relative to the CG. Nose heavy relates to the forward weight.
The extra _____ from the power of the engine at full power relates to the amount of rudder needed on take-off roll. <- test question
Click to expand...
Good question for the newbie :) Must be torque due to the increasing left turning tendancy as the rpm cranks up. I believe this comes from the prop having more force on the downswing than the upswing. Perhaps some precession based torque is also playing a role here? I kind of knew of the left turning tendency, just no time in any other plane to compare it so it feels "like a lot" to me.

Ravioli said:
It is a load of fun, so enjoy it. And you're lucky to already have a sweet machine at your disposal.
Click to expand...
Flying is so cool!!!! Wish I would have started 10years ago.
 
Sinistar said:
To go anywhere from our hangar we need to get ground clearance to cross the threshold so it must be a movement area. The instructor said this would be a special sign off to only taxi from our hangar to their FBO. Fortunately it does not cross any of the other runways and is a rather simple taxi. The instructor is meeting me at the hangar but said on occasion would be nice to meet at their building to use the whiteboards, etc either before or after the flight.

Good question for the newbie :) Must be torque due to the increasing left turning tendancy as the rpm cranks up. I believe this comes from the prop having more force on the downswing than the upswing. Perhaps some precession based torque is also playing a role here? I kind of knew of the left turning tendency, just no time in any other plane to compare it so it feels "like a lot" to me.

Flying is so cool!!!! Wish I would have started 10years ago.
Click to expand...
You'll probably notice in left climbing turns it'll be 'less right rudder' vs. left rudder to initiate the turn and keep the ball centered.
 
Thanks DenverPilot for all your insight and suggestions on the rudder trim! I need to ask the instructor about the rudder trim. He inquired the other day if my wife uses it much and my recollection was that it was already adjusted nicely for cruise and it just doesn't get tweaked - as you called out.
 
Sinistar said:
Thanks DenverPilot for all your insight and suggestions on the rudder trim! I need to ask the instructor about the rudder trim. He inquired the other day if my wife uses it much and my recollection was that it was already adjusted nicely for cruise and it just doesn't get tweaked - as you called out.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get lazy and leave it set there, too. LOL.

Then I have to go do a long climb and I think, "You know, Cessna put that little wheel there for a reason..." as I reach for it.

For folks with weaker legs, it'd be indispensable. I'll have to keep that in mind if I teach someone who hasn't got the leg power to keep after that thing.

For those of us who've done ME and MEI, the pressure needed for the 182 is almost unnoticeable. Haha.

The joke for the ME ratings is, "Don't skip leg day at the gym!"

You get to spend hours flying around with one foot buried in the pedal and if you set your seat distance wrong, it might even be shaking a little bit. LOL. You figure out where to set the seat real quick on the ground by knowing how far the leg will have to extend to hit the stops on the rudder pedal comfortably.

:)

Honestly that's also a consideration in the 182. If I'm doing stuff that is going to need lots of leg power I have to pull the seat up such that my knees are almost touching the panel with my feet flat on the floor and off of the pedals. If I don't, I'm usually coming up a tiny bit short on full travel and feels like I'm "reaching" a little. I'm 5' 11". Shorter than average torso by a bit.

I can tell if the seat is in the "wrong notch" during "flight controls free and correct" when I always move all of them to full deflection. Have the instructor hold the brakes and play with it a bit.

Also... don't forget most 182 seats have an up/down crank. It's nearly impossible to go up while you're sitting in the seat. You can crank down but it's a little harder on the mechanism than just doing it before you get in. I fly with mine nearly all the way up VFR, and I "hide behind the panel" a little more if I know it's an IMC flight, trying to put the AI a little closer to direct eye level (it's never THAT low but a little better angle).

The up/down will also change what notch you probably like for fore/aft. And it'll change the landing picture subtly. So for a bunch of landings I try to bring it up. IMC, I'm probably only making one landing.
 
Sinistar said:
Hi Everyone,

Well its official, first hour in the log book :) That hour went really, really fast, seemed like it took 5 minutes!!! The instructor is about 10 years older than me and he seems pretty no-non-sense. We've owned the plane for about 9 months now and I have about 12 flights sitting the right seat trying to taking it all in. Felt so different sitting in the left seat, starting the plane and flying left handed instead of right. Learned a couple things about pre-flight I never would have expected. He also flew with my wife so they could get to know each other and the plane.

I wanted to start lessons so bad right after we got the plane but I'm glad we got the kinks worked out, had time to just enjoy it as a family and lots of time to discuss training and find the instructor.

Each instructor I spoke with did recommend learning in the 182 vs a 172 or Archer as it will be the plane I will eventually fly. Clearly it will take more time to learn. The FBO will be charging an additional $5/hr of instructor time for not using their plane. To use our plane, their chief A&P had to review all logs for AD compliance and we had to add the FBO to our Avemco policy during the training (adds bout $250/yr).

One funny thing about insurance. Since my wife has over 3,000hrs including instrument, HP, complex, multi, etc I am now on the insurance already with no hours and the premium did not change at all!

Last topic: Tablets in the cockpit during instruction. I was somewhat surprised when he said he thought it was great. The only time I ever even looked at it was when the screen saver went on and he asked how to see the map again. My approach will be to always mount it, connect to the external GPS, start up Pilot (as we would always do)....but then never use it or interact with it unless he prompts me to do so. I'm wondering, maybe the FBO planes have glass cockpits so this perhaps gives him something similar.

Thanks to everyone on the forum for all the help so far regarding aircraft ownership. Its nice to turn the corner and start learning how to fly :)

ps. Thanks also to Dr.Chien for his assistance regarding one potential medical issue, it was probably never a big deal....he sure knows his stuff...I did everything exactly as he said and it was signed in the AME's office.
Click to expand...

Congrats on starting your flight training, and what a blessing to have a wife share this journey with you. The 182 and 172 are very similar so while it will add a few more hours to your training. It will pay off by being more familiar with the airplane. I had some students get their PPL is HP and sometimes even complex aircraft. It's just more to learn in the beginning, but as in anything repetition is the key to learning in aviation. Enjoy
 
Update: Week # 2 Finished

2 more flights and 2.6 more hours. The second flight today was almost 90 minutes but went by so quickly!

- Lesson: if your instructor is available when you want..book it! I forgot for about 2hrs and someone else grabbed it otherwise this would have been a 3 flight week
- First slow flight today had never experienced that I think I did good on altitude, speed and the 360's.
- Getting better at transitioning to cruise from glide while holding altitude
- Many, many more repetitions of throttle, prop, cowl flaps and carb heat
- I think I did all of the take off myself today and was really good on the rudder (right down the middle) from about 30mph to pulling the nose up. Still a little wobbly from no speed to about 30mph. On the climb out I think I did really well with the right rudder.
- Landings are now starting to make some sense. I pretty much fly it right to the #'s and then he is definitely on the controls. Feels nioce to keep the runway lined up and maintaining the speed and altitudes he calls out.
- Getting a bit better on the radio. I make all of the calls and he saves me about 1/3 of the time :)
- CARB ICE: The earlier flight this week was interesting. Overcast ceilings at 2600. We both felt it was warmer on the ground but it was probably right above freezing. At about 1500agl we were seeing some freezing rain drops on the windshield. Looked at the wing vent temp and it was 25F. So he pulled the carb heat and it gurgled pretty good, manifold dropped from 23" to about 19" and then about 5 seconds later back to 21" where it is at cruise with no ice. So, now I know what it feels like when its eating the ice, how long it takes to clear and the differences in manifold drop as it ices and while it clears it out. We just continued the flight and got rid of some ice 4 more times over the hour. We've always been apprehensive about carb ice on our 182. I now feel much better about it. I think all of their rental planes are fuel injected so he said I was getting a bit of a unique lesson that day.

Still loving it :)
 
I'm at a Class D and after flubbing one or two radio call backs (including one with a pax on board) I read a post about carrying a notepad and writing the instructions down. A concern the author addressed was that the controller would get impatient waiting for you to respond, and I can confirm that in 2+ years coming and going out of TZR that has *never* happened. Now I'm confident about my readbacks, and I don't worry about mis-remembering what he told me.

As a student learning to fly the plane, I would think that's not a bad habit to get into. I have a door post handle that I slide a little notebook with a pen into so it's always handy when I fly. Nothing fancy and I get about 3-4 flts/pg. Here's an example: https://www.google.com/search?site=...0k1j0i8i30k1.DTlCyyiYSy8#imgrc=ezWOJOpalF-KFM:
 
P.S. Glad to hear you are loving it. It only gets better and then you get to go places with your pilot wife. Color me green with envy! :D
 
Update: Week # 3 Finished

This was three nice long flights at 3.6hrs.

- First flight under the hood, lots and lots of turns and a few altitude changes. This is the hardest I have gripped the yoke since the severe out of trim example. I fixate too much on the altitude and my eyes are just beginning to learn to veto my inner ear! Next thing I pull of the hood and we're about 3 miles from the downwind to land! I definitely want to do this again. As he took gauges away from me I started to learn how valuable the artificial horizon is. I think I was always using it only to monitor turn bank angles.
- Overall, many many many climbs, turns, climbing turns, power offs for best glide followed by immediate transition to full power to hold altitude and re-trim.
- Two sessions of turns about a point on days with about 10knot winds. I am definitely needing to practice this more. I hold altitude really good but the path I am tracing on the ground is probably a secret geometric shape the Greek's felt us mortal humans would never understand :)
- Lots of steep (45deg) turns
- My last two takes off I did pretty much by myself :) So I am getting the hang of the rudder during take off.
- He has been having me do all the radio work. I think I have all the calls-in down pretty good. I tend to flub the read back only if it is really long or there is new jargon I have heard yet. I think the CFI signing me off to Taxi to the FBO was more about confidence than actually meeting him down there!
- One other thing I am learning as newbie that perhaps people renting planes deal with all the time is hot starting the airplane. The other day I did taxi down to the FBO and pick him up. When we returned we went back there and debriefed (about 15min) and then I had to taxi back to the hangar. So it was my first hot start procedure - worked great!
- Last thing is about radio. For 6 flights in a row we used a west runway and we then depart to the Northwest. And the final taxi onto that runway is a right turn. In this case we always receive "Right turn approved, cleared for takeoff on...." Yesterday we were on a north runway and also departing to the northwest. But the taxi turn onto that runway was a left turn. So what do we hear "Left turn approved, cleare for takeoff on ..." . So in my mind I am thinking the right and left turn mean the final taxi instructions....not that it means a approved turn after we have taken off! And we also received a "Line up and wait..." instruction one day. I thought you were not allowed to cross the runway entry threshold until you received "Cleared for takeoff on...". The CFI indicated that this changed from a while back and used to be something like "Taxi into position....".

So bummed - for the next week and half no flying due to work travel and few other obligations.
 
iflyvfr said:
P.S. Glad to hear you are loving it. It only gets better and then you get to go places with your pilot wife. Color me green with envy! :D
Click to expand...
And our daughter! She's not too keen on pattern work. But when there is a destination she's all in. Now that I am flying more for training I will let her sit up front more often too. She really, really likes that. And sometimes just the two of them go up, talk about a cool mom / daughter thing. They've been doing that since she was 3rys old in a car seat and she still talks about the old plane (she could see out better!).
 
Great job. Keep it up. I just did my night xcountry last night. It was fun but I felt like I took a step backwards when I got into the pattern. Lol. Night changes everything haha
 
Update: Week #4, Week #5 - No Flying Due To Work & Wx

The bad: Had to stop flying for two weeks, 10 days for work travel and the last 4 due to rain. I felt like I was on a roll there and that 2 week hold kinda sucked. Going to Germany and Switzerland for work...did not suck!

The good: Flying tonight and with 4 lessons scheduled for this week :)
 
denverpilot said:
Yeah, I get lazy and leave it set there, too. LOL.

Then I have to go do a long climb and I think, "You know, Cessna put that little wheel there for a reason..." as I reach for it.

For folks with weaker legs, it'd be indispensable. I'll have to keep that in mind if I teach someone who hasn't got the leg power to keep after that thing.

For those of us who've done ME and MEI, the pressure needed for the 182 is almost unnoticeable. Haha.

The joke for the ME ratings is, "Don't skip leg day at the gym!"

You get to spend hours flying around with one foot buried in the pedal and if you set your seat distance wrong, it might even be shaking a little bit. LOL. You figure out where to set the seat real quick on the ground by knowing how far the leg will have to extend to hit the stops on the rudder pedal comfortably.

:)

Honestly that's also a consideration in the 182. If I'm doing stuff that is going to need lots of leg power I have to pull the seat up such that my knees are almost touching the panel with my feet flat on the floor and off of the pedals. If I don't, I'm usually coming up a tiny bit short on full travel and feels like I'm "reaching" a little. I'm 5' 11". Shorter than average torso by a bit.

I can tell if the seat is in the "wrong notch" during "flight controls free and correct" when I always move all of them to full deflection. Have the instructor hold the brakes and play with it a bit.

Also... don't forget most 182 seats have an up/down crank. It's nearly impossible to go up while you're sitting in the seat. You can crank down but it's a little harder on the mechanism than just doing it before you get in. I fly with mine nearly all the way up VFR, and I "hide behind the panel" a little more if I know it's an IMC flight, trying to put the AI a little closer to direct eye level (it's never THAT low but a little better angle).

The up/down will also change what notch you probably like for fore/aft. And it'll change the landing picture subtly. So for a bunch of landings I try to bring it up. IMC, I'm probably only making one landing.
Click to expand...

If you want to really test your leg muscles in the 182, try a full power slip.

I tried that a few times to attempt large-area photos (all of Napa County Airport from 5000 feet).
 
Sinistar said:
Update: Week # 2 Finished

2 more flights and 2.6 more hours. The second flight today was almost 90 minutes but went by so quickly!

- Lesson: if your instructor is available when you want..book it! I forgot for about 2hrs and someone else grabbed it otherwise this would have been a 3 flight week
- First slow flight today had never experienced that I think I did good on altitude, speed and the 360's.
- Getting better at transitioning to cruise from glide while holding altitude
- Many, many more repetitions of throttle, prop, cowl flaps and carb heat
- I think I did all of the take off myself today and was really good on the rudder (right down the middle) from about 30mph to pulling the nose up. Still a little wobbly from no speed to about 30mph. On the climb out I think I did really well with the right rudder.
- Landings are now starting to make some sense. I pretty much fly it right to the #'s and then he is definitely on the controls. Feels nioce to keep the runway lined up and maintaining the speed and altitudes he calls out.
- Getting a bit better on the radio. I make all of the calls and he saves me about 1/3 of the time :)
- CARB ICE: The earlier flight this week was interesting. Overcast ceilings at 2600. We both felt it was warmer on the ground but it was probably right above freezing. At about 1500agl we were seeing some freezing rain drops on the windshield. Looked at the wing vent temp and it was 25F. So he pulled the carb heat and it gurgled pretty good, manifold dropped from 23" to about 19" and then about 5 seconds later back to 21" where it is at cruise with no ice. So, now I know what it feels like when its eating the ice, how long it takes to clear and the differences in manifold drop as it ices and while it clears it out. We just continued the flight and got rid of some ice 4 more times over the hour. We've always been apprehensive about carb ice on our 182. I now feel much better about it. I think all of their rental planes are fuel injected so he said I was getting a bit of a unique lesson that day.

Still loving it :)
Click to expand...
Careful....

Carb ice does not require freezing temperatures. Not even close.

My scariest experience with it was around 60 deg F and very humid (marine layer and fog had just burned off). I had a lengthy wait at the hold short line after run-up, since everyone was trying to leave due to the break in the weather. When cleared, I took off more or less normally, and the engine ingested the carb ice at 200 AGL. Scared the **** out of me. These days, I have a habit of checking static RPM (and MP, if available) at the start of takeoff, but I didn't as a student pilot.
 
As we are concerned about carb ice w/r to the 182 design I have read this before regarding the 60F and humidity. Our mechanic even told us about this. Thank you for sharing what you actually experienced and how you look for it.

During the flight last night (~65F ground high 50F's at altitude) and there was rain slowly moving in. I thought I was now mega smart and said maybe we could be picking up carb ice. He said not gonna happen...but check for yourself. Standard MP drop, no ice. There just wasn't enough moisture in the air. So I am still learning.

Also, once last winter.. probably about 20F we gave the plane some time to warm up and waited for a couple planes to land. Right after take off my wife thought something was off and once we reached cruise pulled the carb heat and it did something. It was our first experience with carb ice. So I'm pretty sure we picked it up while waiting on the ground.

If the plane is warmed up really good and you're idling on the ground in these conditions, shouldn't you just pull carb heat for a few seconds before take off to burn off any ice?
 
I agree with the others. If the 182 is what you will fly, this is what you should learn. It's not all that big of a deal over a 172.

Carb ice is possible with the O-470 powered ships. Note that you still expect the MP to drop even with carb ice. However, after a few seconds you should start to see some improvement (possibly with some brief burps as the carb slurps the melted ice).

I've got carb ice with a pressure carb (thought to be fairly immune to this) on a warmer day like you. It came after an extended period of low power settings.
 
Update: Week # 6 (~19hrs)
- Short Version....frustration! One unassisted landing :) Then skunked on the next 18 tries over two more flights.

- So we agreed to call the unassisted landing a fluke but I could tell that one really had the instructor pumped as if I had put it all together early :(
- I must say, flying 8 or 9 full stop taxi backs per day for three days in a row really wore me out.
- That said I feel really comfortable and even somewhat relaxed from the "cleared for takeoff..." until that last 3 seconds to flare and touching down.
- All the early work has paid off, I am now rarely more than 50ft off pattern altitude which usually happens just as I turn downwind and pull power and pull the prop (that part is busy!). I'm boxing the pattern really good and keeping pretty squared off with some winds (all below 10kts)
- The 1st day after the "fluke" I was ballooning and getting all wonky (aka pulling up to early, wings not level, nose not straight down the runway..ugly ****)
- Yesterday the pattern work really felt great, I was lined up great, keeping wings level but struggling with when to flare and how much
- Had one kinda hard landing where mains hit, bounced and then nose wheel came down just a tidge before the mains which freaked me out.
- We don't have a HOBBS in our airplane. I commented after the first day of landings that seemed way more than 1hr. So we started using the tablet stopwatch. Holy crap, the second day we were out for 90 minutes and tach was 0.9. The same happened yesterday. So he thinks I might have about 2hrs more actual time than we've logged. Thankfully we figured that out now but actually until I can solo nothing else seems to matter to me right now.
- I'm getting a lot better at the radio now. I mainly flub calls with longer taxi instructions (2+ taxiways with runway crossings get me the most). I handle most of the calls in the pattern but the busier airport times with lots of "look for ....", or "follow...." still throw me a bit.
- I'm actually glad I'm learning at a towered airport. Seemed overwhelming at first but now its more about hearing more of what I call the "less common" instructions or things I have never heard yet.
- I'm getting more confident calling the tower back when something is wrong. Twice I've requested a taxi to the FBO and been given a taxi to the runway! And once another plane pulled out on the taxiway without being cleared potentially putting us head to head so I stopped and just said something right away. The other plane got the big lengthy taxi around I was cleared on my initial taxi instructions.
- Had a case where they cleared us to takeoff right as the plane ahead was lifting off. I still don't have much sense of differences of aircraft types. Wow, did we ever catch this one on the climb out. Closest I've been to plane in the air!! They were just barely going right but we were in a left traffic pattern I was thinking they are gonna turn left. My instructor said just wait and called it in and they had the higher plane continue upwind since we were moving/climbing faster and ready to crosswind.
- My instructor can fly :) :) We had a weird one where the tower cleared a PC12 for takeoff right as we turned final. The PC12 rolled over the hold short line and paused right before the actual runway. At this time we are all configured to land just coming down at about 80mph. Now we're short final and I told the instructor my instinct is to go around right now. Problem is: where to go? If I fly right down the runway and the PC12 launches everyone could be screwed. We're on the right parallel so turning right could put us into pattern traffic. And the left parallel is the big runway for the big guys. My instructor calls the tower and says we short final and the PC12 is on the runway. The tower quickly asks if we can make the left runway. He acks and I swear in like 7 seconds we were down on the other runway :) I was humbled :) :) I so want to be able to fly like that!!! The PC12 pilot seemed kinda weak on the radio so my instructor was surprised they cleared him so close to our final. And he didn't think the tower screwed up, rather his comment was along the lines of "Wow that was kinda gutsy today".
 
Two comments:

1. If you're ballooning, you're fast. If the 182 is light, slow down the approach speed. I find 65 knots stabilized approach works nicely with two up front and 50 gal fuel, with full flap. 70 for max landing weight. You're not slow on approach until you need to add power to avoid excessive sink. 182s mush really well; just don't let the plane fly you (or you'll smack the nosegear).

2. Write down your taxi instructions. E.g.,

To 30 H B E x20

Then read it back verbatim.
 
Sinistar said:
- CARB ICE: The earlier flight this week was interesting. Overcast ceilings at 2600. We both felt it was warmer on the ground but it was probably right above freezing. At about 1500agl we were seeing some freezing rain drops on the windshield. Looked at the wing vent temp and it was 25F. So he pulled the carb heat and it gurgled pretty good, manifold dropped from 23" to about 19" and then about 5 seconds later back to 21" where it is at cruise with no ice. So, now I know what it feels like when its eating the ice, how long it takes to clear and the differences in manifold drop as it ices and while it clears it out. We just continued the flight and got rid of some ice 4 more times over the hour. We've always been apprehensive about carb ice on our 182. I now feel much better about it. I think all of their rental planes are fuel injected so he said I was getting a bit of a unique lesson that day.

Still loving it :)
Click to expand...

Sinistar said:
As we are concerned about carb ice w/r to the 182 design I have read this before regarding the 60F and humidity. Our mechanic even told us about this. Thank you for sharing what you actually experienced and how you look for it.

During the flight last night (~65F ground high 50F's at altitude) and there was rain slowly moving in. I thought I was now mega smart and said maybe we could be picking up carb ice. He said not gonna happen...but check for yourself. Standard MP drop, no ice. There just wasn't enough moisture in the air. So I am still learning.
Click to expand...

Of the various planes (a limited number) I've flown (C-150, C-172, C-182, PA-28R-200), the 182 is the only one I've experienced carb ice in. During instrument training, inside a cloud, I noticed it was taking more and more throttle to maintain power. Tried carb heat and once the bucking and spitting ended, it ran just fine. I've never had that problem in the 172 or the Arrow. Only have 4.1 hours in a 150, so who knows about that one.

As others have chimed in, learning in what you are going to fly regularly is the best way to go. And, a 182 is like a heavier 172 with cowl flaps and constant speed prop. And, as you have learned, trim is your friend. It's important in a 172, but is critical in a 182. Your arms get really tired, really fast, in a 182 if you don't trim every time a change is made.

I've got many more hours in a 172 than in a 182, but the 182 is my preferred cross country cruising machine. Very comfortable. And, yes, that plane in my picture is the club's C-182P.
 
Ghery said:
As others have chimed in, learning in what you are going to fly regularly is the best way to go. And, a 182 is like a heavier 172 with cowl flaps and constant speed prop. And, as you have learned, trim is your friend. It's important in a 172, but is critical in a 182. Your arms get really tired, really fast, in a 182 if you don't trim every time a change is made.
Click to expand...
Yeah, not having the elevator trim properly set is not even an option, and flying with just the left hand only magnifies the need.
 
Another joy of training in our own plane....a day off to change the oil.

Actually I don't mind it that much, I'm just rather slow at it to be careful. I think a A&P can do it in about an hour. It takes me closer to 3hrs by the time the cowling is back on and I've cleaned up everything. I would like to be a bit faster at this....but not too fast!

But is sure is nice to get a good look at the engine compartment while waiting for all the oil drain out. No funny colors, all bolts are where they should be, belt is good, lock wires are all in place, no critters living in there, etc. It would be so awesome if the 172/182 series had engine compartment doors that opened on top.
 
Sinistar said:
Another joy of training in our own plane....a day off to change the oil.

Actually I don't mind it that much, I'm just rather slow at it to be careful. I think a A&P can do it in about an hour. It takes me closer to 3hrs by the time the cowling is back on and I've cleaned up everything. I would like to be a bit faster at this....but not too fast!

But is sure is nice to get a good look at the engine compartment while waiting for all the oil drain out. No funny colors, all bolts are where they should be, belt is good, lock wires are all in place, no critters living in there, etc. It would be so awesome if the 172/182 series had engine compartment doors that opened on top.
Click to expand...
I've watched an experienced A&P install a cowling on a 182 in 30 seconds flat.

PA28 engine doors sound like a great idea until you take a good look at the latches. Most of them have cracks that have been stop drilled and doubled.
 
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