IFR Pop-up clearance info

genna

genna

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A few days ago I asked for my first IFR pop-up clearance(while i was on flight following already). All was pretty easy and smooth. After getting the clearance, ATC asked me to give them IFR flight plan info over the radio. I did. I pretty much gave the controller all the info asked on the form, but if felt like i was giving them more info than they were seeking.

Question: what exactly is ATC looking for when one asks for pop-up IFR?

Thanks
 
Type plane, routing, altitude requested, destination the basics, maybe a bit more like fuel onboard etc.
 
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Thanks. Fuel was definitely something he needed. I forgot to give that and he questioned me.
 
This is more or less how I do it

Approach, airplane123, were a bugsmasher /G, requesting IFR, present position direct, 8 thousand.

From there the balls in their court for any further questions they might have, I'd say 80-90% of the time that it! or maybe they'll say cleared direct! except climb/descend and maintain XYZ.
 
James331 said:
This is more or less how I do it

Approach, airplane123, were a bugsmasher /G, requesting IFR, present position direct, 8 thousand.

From there the balls in their court for any further questions they might have, I'd say 80-90% of the time that it! or maybe they'll say cleared direct! except climb/descend and maintain XYZ.
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That's roughly what i did. It's just that his question was not very specific after I got the clearance. "Please give me you flight plan information".
 
Just give him the essentials, then the balls in his court if he wants to know more, radio communication is just a conversation, don't read too much into it, if he wants more info BELEVE me he'll ask :)
 
Type aircraft,route of flight,altitude.
 
It depends on what type of pop up you're doing. If you look up the definition of Abbreviated IFR Flight Plan in the PCG, that's an example of a local pop up when the controller gets the aircraft ID, location and pilot request for an IAP.

If you're doing a XC to another facility (NAS SQK) and not filed, our SOP was to get all the information contained on an IFR flight plan. This was to have all the flight plan information on a recorded freq for SAR purposes.
 
Velocity173 said:
It depends on what type of pop up you're doing. If you look up the definition of Abbreviated IFR Flight Plan in the PCG, that's an example of a local pop up when the controller gets the aircraft ID, location and pilot request for an IAP.

If you're doing a XC to another facility (NAS SQK) and not filed, our SOP was to get all the information contained on an IFR flight plan. This was to have all the flight plan information on a recorded freq for SAR purposes.
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That explains it....

The few times I've needed a popup, it's been because I needed an instrument approach whereas I didn't think I would earlier. Like, popping into Salinas during the wildfires last summer, I lost sight of the ground at 5500 due to smoke, so I got a popup for the ILS. I was on flight following, so they knew my present position and altitude already. All I asked for was a clearance for vectors to the ILS 31.
 
MAKG1 said:
That explains it....

The few times I've needed a popup, it's been because I needed an instrument approach whereas I didn't think I would earlier. Like, popping into Salinas during the wildfires last summer, I lost sight of the ground at 5500 due to smoke, so I got a popup for the ILS. I was on flight following, so they knew my present position and altitude already. All I asked for was a clearance for vectors to the ILS 31.
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I think I turned around and went back home that day.
 
Velocity173 said:
It depends on what type of pop up you're doing. If you look up the definition of Abbreviated IFR Flight Plan in the PCG, that's an example of a local pop up when the controller gets the aircraft ID, location and pilot request for an IAP.

If you're doing a XC to another facility (NAS SQK) and not filed, our SOP was to get all the information contained on an IFR flight plan. This was to have all the flight plan information on a recorded freq for SAR purposes.
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That makes sense. In this situation i was still about 70 miles away from destination and the weather there did not improve fast enough. After getting clearance I was transferred to another center.
 
Include "NOT TOO MANY VECTORS" in the Remarks for them.
 
From one popup event, I learned from the controller they really didn't need a lot of the details which are on the typical flight plan, he said "go as fast as you want, it's just for the tape." It sounded like he wanted to check off that box, but really didn't need or use color of a/c, etc - I know I missed stuff but he didn't push for it.

And, event 2 - unforecast imc (worsening vis and <1000' ceiling; flatlands but well festooned with towers) the local tracon declined! Zooming around low level in that sucked big time; and since then I was sure to file if there was the slightest weather...even if I didn't invoke it.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
From one popup event, I learned from the controller they really didn't need a lot of the details which are on the typical flight plan, he said "go as fast as you want, it's just for the tape." It sounded like he wanted to check off that box, but really didn't need or use color of a/c, etc - I know I missed stuff but he didn't push for it.

And, event 2 - unforecast imc (worsening vis and <1000' ceiling; flatlands but well festooned with towers) the local tracon declined! Zooming around low level in that sucked big time; and since then I was sure to file if there was the slightest weather...even if I didn't invoke it.
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They give a reason for declining assistance on event 2?
 
Velocity173 said:
They give a reason for declining assistance on event 2?
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-directed me to FSS, they didn't sound terribly busy but we had been told it was a training facility. Sometimes I'd fly in and one other aircraft on freq - I would get a 90 vector off 'direct to' while 15 mi out.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
-directed me to FSS, they didn't sound terribly busy but we had been told it was a training facility. Sometimes I'd fly in and one other aircraft on freq - I would get a 90 vector off 'direct to' while 15 mi out.
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Kind of a **** move to send you to FSS. While they can do that, there's nothing keeping them from air filing and then issuing you the clearance on their own. If they're not busy, there's really no excuse.

All facilities are training facilities. They just might not have a student on at any given time. Your situation would probably have been a good training opportunity for an approach student.
 
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I'm in side question mode tonight....

Let'sgoflying! said:
-directed me to FSS, they didn't sound terribly busy but we had been told it was a training facility.
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They didn't sound terribly busy? Really?

The controller gang will be along, but in my OPINION, I'm yacking on one frequency at a time. The guy on the ground can have multiple freqs, land lines, people next to him. We can't HEAR how busy they are, can we?
 
I have them ask me for my name and phone number and verify I was IR and current.
 
I file most flights but occasionally for some reason they can't find it. I have had them send me to fss or take it theirselves. Only had one time they actually told me they didn't have time. Seems like more I file and fly the less they seem to want. Occasionally I will divert to my alternate and that's never a big deal either.
 
I'm in side question mode tonight....
They didn't sound terribly busy? Really?
The controller gang will be along, but in my OPINION, I'm yacking on one frequency at a time. The guy on the ground can have multiple freqs, land lines, people next to him. We can't HEAR how busy they are, can we?
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That's why I phrased it carefully, (as we must on POA). I said, They didn't sound terribly busy. "Sound" as in, I give them the possibility of actually being busy but not appearing busy.
POA; training ground for wannabe attorneys and other excellent wordsmiths.
:D:D
 
Velocity173 said:
Kind of a **** move to send you to FSS. While they can do that, there's nothing keeping them from air filing and then issuing you the clearance on their own. If they're not busy, there's really no excuse.

All facilities are training facilities. They just might not have a student on at any given time. Your situation would probably have been a good training opportunity for an approach student.
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Yeah I agree as a former controller that this was BS, whether busy or slow. Only takes a minute to issue a local squawk code, identify, and issue a clearance. All the other info can be entered as time permits. As Velocity said all ATC facilities train controllers constantly. If you had crashed I'm sure the NTSB would have had a comment about ATC declining your request. Doesn't matter if they are busy or nor not, it's their friggin' job and they should have issued you a clearance.
 
Yeah, it's not uncommon. Boston Center sent me to FSS which I can't imagine saved them much as they had to issue me a rather involved routing anyhow. Usually, people will take a pop-up though once in a while they'll ask me to call FSS to file. More often than not, if I'm getting FF anyhow, I can just say "Can I get an IFR clearance at 6000" and the response is, cleared to XXX, climb and maintain 6000.

The most amusing one was a few years back I was heading through southern Wisconsin on the way to Oshkosh (we arrive about a week before the show).

27K: Milwaukee Approach, looks like Oshkosh is IFR, can I get a clearance from you or do I need to go to FSS.
MKE: [SIGH] (yes, he literally sighs over the air like "It's starting already.) Are you rated and equipped?
27K: Affirmative.
MKE: OK, cleared direct Oshkosh, Maintian 4000. Expect the VOR 9 approach.
27K: How about RNAV 9.
MKE: OK, expect that.
 
The times I've done a pop up I was close enough that they would just give me vectors for the approach.
 
Velocity173 said:
It depends on what type of pop up you're doing. If you look up the definition of Abbreviated IFR Flight Plan in the PCG, that's an example of a local pop up when the controller gets the aircraft ID, location and pilot request for an IAP.

If you're doing a XC to another facility (NAS SQK) and not filed, our SOP was to get all the information contained on an IFR flight plan. This was to have all the flight plan information on a recorded freq for SAR purposes.
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That makes a lot of sense. However, that is not in our SOP. We just get the call sign, type and destination (altitude if not to an airport in our airspace). Usually for someone who wants to descend through a layer to an approach in our airspace after getting trapped on top. If it's not in our airspace we just apreq direct or a heading to the adjacent facility they will enter. Would make for a difficult SAR situation if needed.

To answer the OP, it depends on the air traffic facility evidently.
 
James331 said:
Just give him the essentials, then the balls in his court if he wants to know more, radio communication is just a conversation, don't read too much into it, if he wants more info BELIEVE me he'll ask :)
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Returning home from Corpus Christi with Ron Levy on board, we decided to switch from our planned routing to Denton (KDTO) to Stephenville (KSEP). So we're already on with Houston Center when I make my re-routing request.

Controller asks for the reason. I reply, "We're both getting hungry and want some BBQ from Hard 8".

A bit of silence, then he comes back. "Oh.. well the upstairs guys always want us to ask incase you're experiencing a 7500 situation. And how's the food there? Any good?"

So yeah, if he wants more info, he'll ask.
 
OK, after you land on a pop up clearance do you have to cancel?
And if not, what do you do on a go around?
 
coloradobluesky said:
OK, after you land on a pop up clearance do you have to cancel?
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Yes, if it's a non-towered field. A popup is an "abbreviated IFR flight plan," but it is still an IFR flight plan.

From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

ABBREVIATED IFR FLIGHT PLANS− An
authorization by ATC requiring pilots to submit only
that information needed for the purpose of ATC. It
includes only a small portion of the usual IFR flight
plan information. In certain instances, this may be
only aircraft identification, location, and pilot
request. Other information may be requested if
needed by ATC for separation/control purposes. It is
frequently used by aircraft which are airborne and
desire an instrument approach or by aircraft which are
on the ground and desire a climb to VFR-on-top.​
 
coloradobluesky said:
OK, after you land on a pop up clearance do you have to cancel?
And if not, what do you do on a go around?
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Think of it this way. "Pop up" is just the way you get an IFR clearance when you haven't filed an IFR flight plan in advance. As folks have already pointed out, the information ATC wants is, at a minimum, enough to put you in the system. Might be very little, might be more, depending on where you are, where you are going, and who you are talking to.

But, whatever. Once you have your IFR clearance, you are operating under an IFR clearance. You are in the system and the system rules and procedures apply.
 
From my past experiences with a pop up at that point they probably just wanted to know fuel on board and souls on board..
 
Palmpilot said:
Yes, if it's a non-towered field. A popup is an "abbreviated IFR flight plan," but it is still an IFR flight plan.

From the Pilot/Controller Glossary:

ABBREVIATED IFR FLIGHT PLANS− An
authorization by ATC requiring pilots to submit only
that information needed for the purpose of ATC. It
includes only a small portion of the usual IFR flight
plan information. In certain instances, this may be
only aircraft identification, location, and pilot
request. Other information may be requested if
needed by ATC for separation/control purposes. It is
frequently used by aircraft which are airborne and
desire an instrument approach or by aircraft which are
on the ground and desire a climb to VFR-on-top.​
Click to expand...

That pretty much covers it. ATC doesn't NEED anything more than what it takes to get you entered into the system and separate you from other airplanes. Call sign and type aircraft pretty much covers that along with what you want to do. If your concerned that if you crash and you want to make sure the crash crew keeps looking for everyone in the plane, you may want to blurt out Souls on Board whether or not they ask for it
 
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