Is there a "correct" call sign for the PA-28R?

iamtheari

iamtheari

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I fly an Arrow. I usually call myself Arrow 58J. One time, a controller responded by calling me Cherokee 58J. (She didn't scold me or correct me. She just used that call sign when responding to me.) I have also seen and heard people use the call sign Piper. And of course I could just be November.

"Say Again Please" (great book, by the way--if you are a student pilot you need to own it and read it often, and if you are a certificated pilot you should at least read it as you will likely find a tip or trick that you were forgetting all these years) refers to an appendix of JO 7110.65 that was later removed and replaced with a reference to another JO, which does not specify this information (it just has the ICAO airplane type codes, as in P28R).

Controllers or bookworms: Is one of these call signs more correct than the others? Is there an official reference?
 
iamtheari said:
I fly an Arrow. I usually call myself Arrow 58J. One time, a controller responded by calling me Cherokee 58J. (She didn't scold me or correct me. She just used that call sign when responding to me.) I have also seen and heard people use the call sign Piper. And of course I could just be November.

"Say Again Please" (great book, by the way--if you are a student pilot you need to own it and read it often, and if you are a certificated pilot you should at least read it as you will likely find a tip or trick that you were forgetting all these years) refers to an appendix of JO 7110.65 that was later removed and replaced with a reference to another JO, which does not specify this information (it just has the ICAO airplane type codes, as in P28R).

Controllers or bookworms: Is one of these call signs more correct than the others? Is there an official reference?
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Keep doing what you're doing. Since "Cherokee" is the most common of the Piper 28 variants, it's not surprising that the controller used it.
 
My first job was in an arrow 4, always called it arrow.
 
Either example is fine. Controller's can use either the type, model or the manufacturer for ID.

On the strip, Arrow just shows up as P28R. A lot of controllers just play it safe and respond with Cherokee. If you respond with Arrow, they really should use that for subsequent transmissions.

Not all controllers have the types memorized either. Some might see C414 and just say "twin Cessna." Just depends on how much they get into the books. Usually it's the controllers who are experienced or pilots in their spare time that know most types.
 
2−4−20. AIRCRAFT IDENTIFICATION
Use the full identification in reply to aircraft with
similar sounding identifications. For other aircraft,
the same identification may be used in reply that the
pilot used in his/her initial callup except use the
correct identification after communications have
been established. Identify aircraft as follows:
a. U.S. registry aircraft. State one of the following:
1. Civil. State the prefix “November” when
establishing initial communications with U.S.
registered aircraft followed by the ICAO phonetic
pronunciation of the numbers/letters of the aircraft
registration. The controller may state the aircraft
type, the model, the manufacturer’s name, followed
by the ICAO phonetic pronunciation of the
numbers/letters of the aircraft registration if used by
the pilot on the initial or subsequent call.

EXAMPLE−
Air traffic controller’s initiated call:
“November One Two Three Four Golf.”
“November One Two Three Four.”
Responding to pilot’s initial or subsequent call:
“Jet Commander One Two Three Four Papa.”
“Bonanza One Two Three Four Tango.”
“Sikorsky Six Three Eight Mike Foxtrot.”
 
Cherokee works for all models of PA-28.
 
Velocity173 said:
On the strip, Arrow just shows up as PA28. Could be several types so a lot of controllers just use Cherokee.If you respond with Arrow, they really should use that for subsequent transmissions.

Not all controllers have the types memorized either. Some might see C414 and just say "twin Cessna." Just depends on how much they get into the books. Usually it's the controllers who are experienced or pilots in their spare time that know most types.
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This. Most controllers are not pilots and really know very little about flying. I was a controller and pilot and I'd say the places I worked that was less than 1% of the roster. Velocity sums it up well.
 
Thats the reference above. Like said above some controllers are more familiar with types and models than others. You can call yourself an Arrow and if it doesn't register with him he's likely to call you cherokee because PA28 and Cherokee do register. There's nothing more correct or less correct about it.
 
the reason I specify 'arrow' when I fly that as opposed to cherokee is just in case they know it's a retract and just a little faster than a 140. maybe they know, maybe they don't, maybe it doesn't mean a thing, maybe they're not required to know, but in my mind I'VE made the distinction. otherwise I'd feel like I held back information. I'm sure someone will blast that theory, but that's what I'm going with.
 
Whether I flew an Arrow, a Warrior, or an Archer I was almost always called "Cherokee" by ATC.
 
Ryanb said:
Cherokee works for all models of PA-28.
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And PA-32, for that matter, even though Piper dropped the "Cherokee" name for all models after the 1977 model year (except "Cherokee Six", which lasted through 1978). Even when flying a Saratoga, I often heard ATC (usually the ... um ... more "seasoned" controllers) come back with the "Cherokee" name.
 
Well, find some solace in the fact at least you're not the clownshoe RV driver trying to use a vanity call sign from their military days. :rolleyes: Right up there with parachuting cirri and "Mooney flight of X" in the flying cliché department. :D

As to the distinction between my arrow and a 140, lol I don't kid myself, I'm still slow. I always call myself cherokee.
 
Velocity173 said:
On the strip, Arrow just shows up as P28R.
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Yes and no. "P28R" for a low-tail Arrow with a normally-aspirated engine; "P28S" for a low-tail Turbo Arrow; "P28T" for a normally-aspirated T-tail Arrow; and "P28U" for a T-tail Turbo Arrow. https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/Order_7360.1_.pdf

For the Lances and retractable Saratogas, it's not so complicated. "P32R" for all the low-tail versions regardless of engine; and P32T for the T-tail Lance II.
 
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eman1200 said:
the reason I specify 'arrow' when I fly that as opposed to cherokee is just in case they know it's a retract and just a little faster than a 140. maybe they know, maybe they don't, maybe it doesn't mean a thing, maybe they're not required to know, but in my mind I'VE made the distinction. otherwise I'd feel like I held back information. I'm sure someone will blast that theory, but that's what I'm going with.
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This makes sense and is a great way to distinguish yourself also to other traffic in the area. It can be helpful to others on frequency to know what kind of airplane to be looking for, or to help plan spacing if ATC hasn't done so (i.e. "follow the Cessna on 3 mile final"). It's good to know if the Cessna is a 172 identified as "Skyhawk 1234" or a Citation identified as "Citation 1234" instead of just calling oneself Cessna 1234. On initial check in with ATC, I've always used Model and N-number as callsign. I don't ever recall being taught or using just the full N-Number, as in the reference posted above, though.
 
I gave up a long time ago on arguing with ATC over my "type." So long as it's generally close, I just call it whatever ATC wants to call it that particular day. Arrow = Cherokee? Sure. Debonair = Bonanza? Sure.
 
I say RV for the Vans and assume they are aware of the "experimental nature" of my plane. I say Cherokee for all PA28 variants AND the PA32s. I say Cesnna for all them 150, 152, 172, 177. That's fine for the bulk of the radio work.

EXCEPT: When requesting the Flight Following and they ask for the plane type. Then they'll get "Cardinal 12345 is a C177RG/___"
 
bradg33 said:
I gave up a long time ago on arguing with ATC over my "type." So long as it's generally close, I just call it whatever ATC wants to call it that particular day. Arrow = Cherokee? Sure. Debonair = Bonanza? Sure.
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I would never 'argue', but on one trip I took in a piper lance they were trying to contact me as 'skyhawk 96C....' and I didn't respond. after a while they came back with the full tail # (still skyhawk) and 'how do u read' which at that point I put 2 and 2 together. I apologized, corrected the type and went on my merry way. but my ears perk up if I hear 'cherokee' while flying an arrow.
 
Try flying something more exotic than a PA28. The Navion used to have an identifier of N145. Nobody knew what that was. Even now when the identifier is NAVI, I still get called "NAVY" from time to time and asked for a type.
 
Pilawt said:
Yes and no. "P28R" for a low-tail Arrow with a normally-aspirated engine; "P28S" for a low-tail Turbo Arrow; "P28T" for a normally-aspirated T-tail Arrow; and "P28U" for a T-tail Turbo Arrow. https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/Order_7360.1_.pdf

For the Lances and retractable Saratogas, it's not so complicated. "P32R" for all the low-tail versions regardless of engine; and P32T for the T-tail Lance II.
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Yes, there are many versions of PA28. I was replying to the OP's case (P28R). That listing shows "Cherokee Arrow." Some controllers will use Cherokee and some Arrow. Really, if they're unsure, they should stick with "November" until they hear the pilot's version of type aircraft (2-4-20).
 
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eman1200 said:
I would never 'argue', but on one trip I took in a piper lance they were trying to contact me as 'skyhawk 96C....' and I didn't respond. after a while they came back with the full tail # (still skyhawk) and 'how do u read' which at that point I put 2 and 2 together. I apologized, corrected the type and went on my merry way. but my ears perk up if I hear 'cherokee' while flying an arrow.
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I use the term "argue" in the very broad sense. Of course, "Lance" and "Skyhawk" are drastically different and I don't think I'd have apologized in your situation, that's 100% on the controller.
 
bradg33 said:
I use the term "argue" in the very broad sense. Of course, "Lance" and "Skyhawk" are drastically different and I don't think I'd have apologized in your situation, that's 100% on the controller.
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Especially since he was flying a kite shaped like an F-111 at the time.
 
During a tower tour 15 years ago, I asked the controller if my identifying myself as "Pathfinder 56993" helped, hurt, or didn't matter.

The one guy we regularly spoke with answered that it was helpful when things were busy, because he knew we were a 140 knot plane, not a 105 knot Cherokee 140. This helped with his mental picture and spacing.

He also said that when it wasn't busy, it didn't matter at all. Given how dead the GA airspace is nowadays, I'm guessing that "Cherokee" works just fine for ATC.
 
I use "Archer", mostly because it's easier to say than Cherokee. I'd say that 30% of the time ATC calls me Cherokee. I don't really care, and just keep using "Archer". If I'm VFR, they got my full type with my request for FF. If I'm IFR, it was on the flight plan. I did my bit to properly inform them. If the strip doesn't have the required info, that's on the system. If they ask me to do something my plane cannot do, or that I'm not comfortable with, they get "unable to comply".

I'm still thinking of ID'g my plane with something else. Just can't think of a good one.
 
One pilot I know was flying on a slow night and asked ATC for a call sign change to something funny. Maybe that's the solution.

Me: Center, Arrow 58J, request.
Center: Cherokee 58J, say request.
Me: Change call sign, Arrow 58J is now Bugsmasher 58J.
 
iamtheari said:
I fly an Arrow. I usually call myself Arrow 58J. One time, a controller responded by calling me Cherokee 58J. (She didn't scold me or correct me. She just used that call sign when responding to me.) I have also seen and heard people use the call sign Piper. And of course I could just be November.

"Say Again Please" (great book, by the way--if you are a student pilot you need to own it and read it often, and if you are a certificated pilot you should at least read it as you will likely find a tip or trick that you were forgetting all these years) refers to an appendix of JO 7110.65 that was later removed and replaced with a reference to another JO, which does not specify this information (it just has the ICAO airplane type codes, as in P28R).

Controllers or bookworms: Is one of these call signs more correct than the others? Is there an official reference?
Click to expand...

There is no "correct" phraseology for anything. There are several mandatory reports, but not a word as to how those reports are to be phrased. Controllers have a book of mandatory phraseology...nothing similar exists for pilots.

And thanks for the kind words.

Bob Gardner
 
Velocity173 said:
Either example is fine. Controller's can use either the type, model or the manufacturer for ID.

On the strip, Arrow just shows up as P28R. A lot of controllers just play it safe and respond with Cherokee. If you respond with Arrow, they really should use that for subsequent transmissions.

Not all controllers have the types memorized either. Some might see C414 and just say "twin Cessna." Just depends on how much they get into the books. Usually it's the controllers who are experienced or pilots in their spare time that know most types.
Click to expand...
Personally, I only get offended when ATC calls me a Bonanza when I'm flying the Beech 18.
 
In the 182RG I have been called a whole slew of things. I can recall: skyhawk, Cessna, skylane, skywagon, centurion.
I always respond with Skylane and my callsign because that is what I am.

It's the callsign that is really important. The first word just catches your attention. If they kept calling citation 61X or even piper 61X it would take a few tries before I figured out it was me
 
TheGolfPilot said:
In the 182RG I have been called a whole slew of things. I can recall: skyhawk, Cessna, skylane, skywagon, centurion.
I always respond with Skylane and my callsign because that is what I am.

It's the callsign that is really important. The first word just catches your attention. If they kept calling citation 61X or even piper 61X it would take a few tries before I figured out it was me
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Agreed. If the controller answers with the wrong type I usually, in the immortal words of Sam Goldwyn, let it roll off my back like a duck. I'll just enunciate better in my next transmission.

But where it can make a difference is if the controller answers me as, for example, "Stationair 7YQ" (instead of Skyhawk), then proceeds to tell another nearby airplane that he has "traffic at three o'clock and two miles, a Stationair" ... That's when I'll jump in and correct him.

On the other hand, you can't always assume that the controller is wrong. More than once I've heard my abbreviated callsign with a different type, and there really was another airplane on frequency with the same abbreviated callsign. If there's any doubt at all, I'll ask, "Was that for Skyhawk 7YQ?"
 
Cherokee is a generic term,I used Arrow when calling atc,gives them a better idea of the airplanes performance.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Is an Arrow really that much faster than a Cherokee?:D
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Yes. Cherokee 180 I did half my training in was good for 105 KTAS. Arrow 180 I fly now does 130 KTAS. It's 25% faster which is significant. Not earth shattering, but in 2 minutes I'll gain a mile on a Cherokee 180 which is probably enough for ATC to care when sequencing us to land. Maybe I'm wrong but based on this thread I'll keep saying Arrow and listening for everything short of Executive One.
 
Just call it a Cherokee. If ya wanna sound cool just replace the word Cherokee with MOONEY. :)


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