How I almost landed gear up today...

[Hank S]

While it's certainly possible to slow down enough without flaps to extend the gear in my Cardinal, my SOP when flying an instrument approach is to add approach flaps for stability just before reaching the IAF. Then, gear down at the FAF, or when beginning my descent, if there is no FAF. I don't see any reason to alter that procedure.

Also, when descending into the vicinity of an airport VFR, I normally add flaps before the descent and then put the gear down when reaching pattern altitude.

This instrument procedure works well for me. But when VFR, I add flaps when slowing toward pattern speed, and drop gear abeam my intended point of landing to also start the descent. I descend from cruise altitude to pattern clean and power on, and let the speed build to make up for the slow climb.

 

[brcase]

Does touching the runway, pulling up and putting the gear down and then landing count as "landing gear up"?
It was a glider so no prop strike.

Does landing gear up due to a mechanical issue include a fixed gear airplane? (Folded a gear leg underneath a Champ once, and then had to land it)

 

[arkvet]

Careful now.....

Welded in place 36 years ago

 

[GRG55]

No one said anything about being required, but in many twins, there are times when you have to slow your approach speed for sequencing and it makes more sense to add flaps than fly 15 miles with the gear down.

Like Jordane93 alluded to, strict checklist discipline is more important to saving your bacon than arbitrary rules of thumb.

That's my habit - I dial in the first notch of flap in the Aztec to slow the airplane if necessary for sequencing, and to slow to Vle in the pattern if the controller requests keep the speed up inbound. Pre landing checklist, followed by a second always-consistent sequential touch & audible check along the center console/left on the panel (fuel selectors, gear, mixture, props, flaps fuel pumps, landing light) and another GUMPS on final.

 

[Zeldman]

I took off in a C-414 once, put the gear handle up, after a few seconds the pump stopped but I did not feel the familiar thump thump of the gear folding in place. I looked in the mirror and could see the nose gear was half way up. I did not get a red light, and the pumps had stopped.

I put the handle down and nothing happened. I tried up again and nothing happened. Ok, a quick call back to the dispatcher to tell him something is wrong. He called the mechanics to get the binoculars for a look see as I do a fly over. Ok, the observation saw all three legs halfway up, or down. Working the gear handle did nothing. Circuit breakers are still in.

So up to pattern altitude, pull the checklist out and flip to the emergency gear extension.
1. Airspeed under 140.....check.
2. Pull gear circuit breaker....check.
3. Gear handle down.....check.
4. Flip up cover to the emergency gear handle.....check
5. Pull emergency gear extension handle firmly.......check BOOOMM.!!!!!

I mean all three legs lowered in less than an eye blink with a thunderous boom and a very big thump in the airplane. I actually flinched thinking I may have just been in a mid air. A quick glance showed three green.

The mechanics found a broken wire to the pump from the micro switch that told the pump that the gear was up. So when it grounded, the pump motor thought the gear was up and stopped pumping.

As for remembering to put the gear down, it is part of the flow list to put the gear down, check three green, no red, one in the mirror, three times, VFR or IFR.

 

[DFH65]

GUMP GUMP GUMP! And not the Forest one. I even do it in fixed gear.

The question was asked on a non-aviation board with an aviation forum should I do a gear check even in a 172 to get in the habit.

The overall consensus was probably not. One guy made a really good point of you could get in the habit of saying it and not actually doing anything that could carry over into a retract.

I guess it depends on the person.

ETA: I have no retract time as PIC so no meaningful opinion on the matter at this point.

 

[robert lomax]

Some training, fixed gear planes were built with a FAKE Gear lever, knob or switch.
I guess the plan was to incorporate using that as transition training for complex future planes.

 

[AdamZ]

Great post, thanks to the OP for putting it out there. I look at every landing as a potential gear up landing. I fly a J35 Bo and My practice is to pull power nose up to get down to put the gear down. I need to get to Vle of 123kts for that. I will always check the green light ( there is only on in the older Bos) and then the gear down indicator on the floor to confirm the indicator is in the full down position it is kind of awkward to look at but sometimes necessary if the sun makes it hard to see the green light. My first check is after I put the gear down, Second is GUMPS on down wind my third GUMPS is on final.

* Note Flaps come down all at once at Vfl 103kts abeam the numbers

 

[azure]

My understanding is that "down and welded" is the standard reply to the military controller's gear check transmission is flying a fixed gear plane. I missed my one and only chance so far to say that (at KAPN, on my long solo XC as a student).

 

[mscard88]

Yeah, like they've never heard that before azure. I'm sure they appreciate hearing it again though.

 

[steingar]

G Check the GEAR

U Undercarriage check

M MAKE sure the gear is down

P PUT your hand on the gear switch

S Make SURE the gear is down

 

[EdFred]

My landing routine:

Midfield downwind: Gear down - check gear down
Abeam: Throttle reduction/1st notch flaps - check gear down
Base: 2nd notch flaps - check gear down
Final: Last notch of flaps/prop forward - check gear down
Short Final: Check gear down.
Over the numbers: Check gear down.

"Unwrap" the pattern for straight in approach. Every time I make a landing adjustment, I check the gear. So it gets checked no less than 5 times.

 

[Cooter]

GEAR. BEFORE. FLAPS. ALWAYS. PERIOD. END OF STORY.


Do not, I repeat, do NOT touch the flaps until gear is down and locked.

It may be too strong of a statement, but I mostly agree. For single pilot aircraft, gear then flaps is a good habit. I won't say how, but my experience confirms this.

 

[hotprops]

in c300 series aircraft you hit the landing lights first that will bring you to gear speed than gump,

 

[DavidWhite]

Just recently started flying complex airplanes again after almost 2500 steady fixed gear hours. You can never ever get complacent with the landing gear.

 

[mscard88]

in c300 series aircraft you hit the landing lights first that will bring you to gear speed than gump,

I assume you're referring to twins? I have a lot of time in C-310s and never did that to slow down. Instructed in C-310s and didn't teach that either. In fact used the lights for what they were for, landing at night or for recognition so others could see me, hopefully.

 

[luvflyin]

Thanks for sharing the experience. Good discussion. Seems like most unintentional gear ups happen when there is distraction. The biggest takeaway I get from this incident is all the clues that

The question was asked on a non-aviation board with an aviation forum should I do a gear check even in a 172 to get in the habit.

The overall consensus was probably not. One guy made a really good point of you could get in the habit of saying it and not actually doing anything that could carry over into a retract.

I guess it depends on the person.

ETA: I have no retract time as PIC so no meaningful opinion on the matter at this point.

I do it. I'd been doing it for a long time when I first heard the downside was getting into so much of a routine that when you did fly a retract you might just say it without actually doing it. Made a lot of sense. I now reach out when I say it pushing down an imaginary gear lever. Still not foolproof.

 

[FlySince9]

Some training, fixed gear planes were built with a FAKE Gear lever, knob or switch.
I guess the plan was to incorporate using that as transition training for complex future planes.

The C-150 I trained in (in 1970) had one of those... Don't think it was built with it... think the school added it... no lights or buzzers, just the handle...

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Confucious says, Pilot who has Never Forgotten Gear does not readily discuss this, and especially never brags about it!

 

[wsuffa]

When I owned my plane, the emergency gear drop valve was by my right knee. Sometime I'd bump it and the gear would not retract - until I realized what I had done & reset the valve. Usually only happened on a busy IFR departure where I wouldn't notice until I realized the plane was climbing like a laden sparrow.

 

[vontresc]

When I owned my plane, the emergency gear drop valve was by my right knee. Sometime I'd bump it and the gear would not retract - until I realized what I had done & reset the valve. Usually only happened on a busy IFR departure where I wouldn't notice until I realized the plane was climbing like a laden sparrow.

African or European???

 

[RyanShort1]

I used to be in the no-gear-up category until a mechanical issue a few weeks back. Not fun at all, but I'll be ok if it never happens again.

 

[Hank S]

African or European???

http://style.org/unladenswallow/

 

[azure]

Yeah, like they've never heard that before azure. I'm sure they appreciate hearing it again though.

Hmmm... when I posted that, the post just before mine was by someone who seemed not to know that. I wasn't just saying it to say it. But the post appears to have been deleted. Oh well...

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

guy I fly with says "Deploy the rubber-tipped spark arrestors, please"

"Speed checks. RTSA selected down, suh!"

 

[KFD]

My landing routine:

Midfield downwind: Gear down - check gear down
Abeam: Throttle reduction/1st notch flaps - check gear down
Base: 2nd notch flaps - check gear down
Final: Last notch of flaps/prop forward - check gear down
Short Final: Check gear down.
Over the numbers: Check gear down.

"Unwrap" the pattern for straight in approach. Every time I make a landing adjustment, I check the gear. So it gets checked no less than 5 times.

Yep that's the way to do it. Pretty much my routine too.

 

[brian]]

Nothing like flying a perfectly running airplane - less the gear that won't "suck up" into the airframe. My lesson learned: gear failure is engine failure (and more). If you get an overhaul - might as well overhaul the gear systems.

(by the way, that rod end might be actual size if you are viewing this from a phone sized screen...

 

[hotprops]

yes card88, cessna 310,320,340s have no speed limitation on landing lights and are wonderful speed brakes ,usually gets you right to gear speed. and landing lights are always good coming into a pattern day or night

 

[steingar]

The is probably getting old, but I LOVE the Johnson bar gear in my airplane. Its way bigger than a little switch the panel. Swinging it is a BIG event, takes some grunt. Hard to believe I'd forget to suck the gear up on takeoff, and hard to believe I'd forget to put it down. I'm certain its happened and could happen, but I'll bet less frequently than electric gear.

 

[James331]

I don't fly a retract, but if I did, I would probably have a triple check system like the one you see Frank Holbert use on 160knots.com (Gumps and prop on downwind, again base, and confirmed on short final).

Sounds dangerous, what happens in tower has you enter a left base? Or worse straight in, or downwind and then pushed you way out, you just going to keep flying around dirty?

I think going off of glideslope, range or altitude is better

Checklists also make for more accidents when used (as they often are) as "do lists"

Learn your flows and follow those up with a check list FTW IMO

 

[BigBadLou]

Flaps 10. Crosswind call, turn crosswind. Still a little fast. Pull the power a bit more, trim for 75.

Nobody called you on this? Seriously? Here on PoA where everybody knows everything better?
Well, sir, it is called "base leg", not crosswind.
(sorry, just couldn't pass up the opportunity)

FWIW, glad you have the GUMPS check ingrained in you. As I recall my training, it took me several lessons to make it permanent.
That's what checklists are for and you used it to check your list of possible mistakes, found one and corrected it. Glad it was a positive turnout.

When you're training for an instrument ticket, they drill into you to put the gear down (and configure dirty for landing) at the FAF.
On my IR checkride, I was passing the FAF, starting my descent and contrary to previous approaches, I did not add any flaps or lower the gear.
That's because I was on a VOR-A circling approach so I told the DPE that we will be circling to land in VMC so I will do a normal visual landing preparation in the pattern then. He just nodded. I put in a greaser for a TNG and off we went for another hold, DME arc etc. Aaaahhh, the good ole days.

 

[Unit74]

I

New plane to me, hp and complex, I had owned it for about 4 months trying to schedule time with my CFI for the insurance signoff, probably less than 3 hours total. We had just come back from doing slow flight and stalls. He suggests we do some touch and goes then some emergency procedures. We get into downwind, slow below 100, drop gear, no lights. Cycle them up and down. We can feel them just no green. Now we're totally out of shape and head off to the north to diagnose the problem. After cycling the gear again, I see the nav lights are on. Off they go, recycle the gear, 3 green.
They go out with the nav lights on. Well, not out out, just so dim you cannot see them in sunlight.
Great practice. Back to downwind and landing. I checked for 3 green on downwind, base, and final. It is now the procedure.

I've got you beat on that one! I have less than 1 hour on my Lance, flying with a DPE for a check out and we don't get any greens! We tootle around messing with the plane. I'm flying, he is dicking around trying to problem solve. The gear won't cycle but we get the transit light.

We use the emergency gear dump, no greens. Cycle the gear more and pretty much decode this aughts be an interesting day. We talk about where to go such as little rock where they have equipment. We then get 3 greens.

Talk a bit more and decide to go back to my airport.

With little more than an hour in my book for an airframe checkout, HP and Complex endorsement, I'm flying into my first possible gear failure landing.

We chirp the mains, hold it up as long as I can and chirp the nose. Roll it to the shop and it stayed there till she was fixed.

How's that for your first ride?

 

[red4golf]

Forgot to put the gear up during a trip around the pattern. That scared me. I thought to myself "wow I just as easily could have forgotten to put the gear down"... I treat RG's with much more respect after that incident.

EDIT: In a Piper Arrow.

Same here and also in an arrow, I made the same mistake on one of my first solo trips and after about 10 hours of dual while working on my CPL. I decided to fly a C172 with my family for about 1.5 and that was enough to take me back to the fixed gear mindset. I had flown Cherokees before and I guess that it was just natural to revert to the fixed gear mentality even in the arrow. After that one circuit where I couldn't quite reach the correct speeds with the normal power settings I figured out just how easy it was to make simple mistakes.

 

[red4golf]

The question was asked on a non-aviation board with an aviation forum should I do a gear check even in a 172 to get in the habit.

The overall consensus was probably not. One guy made a really good point of you could get in the habit of saying it and not actually doing anything that could carry over into a retract.

I guess it depends on the person.

ETA: I have no retract time as PIC so no meaningful opinion on the matter at this point.

On my early lessons at an Army airfield we were cleared to land and told to verify gear down. I was learning at the flying club and my CFI (Army Apache pilot) taught it as "gear down and welded" to reinforce the difference between fixed and retract. The tower liked it when I accidentally reported it that way.

 

[red4golf]

The is probably getting old, but I LOVE the Johnson bar gear in my airplane. Its way bigger than a little switch the panel. Swinging it is a BIG event, takes some grunt. Hard to believe I'd forget to suck the gear up on takeoff, and hard to believe I'd forget to put it down. I'm certain its happened and could happen, but I'll bet less frequently than electric gear.

I found that to be the case in the M20E I flew not that long ago. Even 1 flight of 1.5 and I was pretty sure that I wouldn't forget the gear unlike during the 20 hours in an Arrow where I always question the gear position.

 

[korben88]

I'm still in training for a ppl, and only flown welded gear so far but, a guy I work with that's a pilot told me a sory about a guy when he was in training that landed, cleared the runway, stopped, intended to go flaps up but hit gear up instead and face planted the plane.

 

[korben88]

In regards to the discussion about GUMPS in a fixed wheel my instructor makes me look out the window to "make sure the wheel didn't fall off" for the U portion.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I know an amazingly experienced, 5-digit hours pilot, 55+ years flying, with so much experience he oozed good airplane goo with every motion and statement. He flew almost exclusively retracts in the most recent 30 years, and never did it.
Until, he did it. (And he was not a greybeard who was 'losing it'.)
That is not the only very highly experienced, high time, respected pilot I have heard of doing this.

Knowing this can happen to them means it could easily happen to a newbie like me (low 4-digit hours, only 40years flying).

 

[Fearless Tower]

I'm still in training for a ppl, and only flown welded gear so far but, a guy I work with that's a pilot told me a sory about a guy when he was in training that landed, cleared the runway, stopped, intended to go flaps up but hit gear up instead and face planted the plane.

Unfortunately way too common in Beechcraft airplanes made before 1984.

 

[Doggtyred]

Strict checklist discipline and GUMPS has kept me out of trouble so far. It can happen to anyone and I won't judge anyone who's had one.

^^^^^ This. GUMPS was part of my flow in every plane, fixed gear included. Made it a habit.