Insurance on a Experimental Plane VS Factory

cholubaz

cholubaz

Filing Flight Plan
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cholubaz
Hello all,

Can any of you who have owned both a certified factory plane. Cessna, Piper, Beechcraft, etc.. and also some kind of experimental please tell me what you have found to be true when it comes to insuring them.

For example a 200hr pilot with complex and HP endorsements owning a Bonanza or Mooney etc.. now wants to get something like a Lancair, Velocity, Vans RV etc..

Are we talking considerably more to insure? Any other gotchas to be aware of?

Cheers,
Chris
 
Have you tried to get quotes from insurance companies? They might have an idea what they will charge you.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Have you tried to get quotes from insurance companies? They might have an idea what they will charge you.
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That can be helpful once you narrow down things, but unlike going to Geico.com, the aviation insurance companies will flag you as a tire kicker if you request too many quotes (I've heard this from multiple brokers). So getting some rough ideas from other folks is a good idea before you go get too many quotes.

To the OP, you've got a wide range there. Vans are typically relatively cheap to insure as they're fairly forgiving. Lancair, depends on which one. A IV-P will be ridiculous to insure, if they'll even insure you. A 320/360 will be more reasonable to insure. Best question is what're you thinking of for suiting your mission?
 
Just call AVEMCO and airpower, airpower is a little better at odd ball stuff, don't give them any N numbers till you're ready to pay though.

Personally I think having, or not having, your IFR ticket would make more of a difference, especially with X/C friendly planes you're looking at.
 
Thanks guys,
Yes a IFR ticket would also something I would have before buying a plane.
The mission is a XC plane for 2 but would really like a 4 place if the budget allowed. For example if I wanted to do a trip from here in PHX to go see my family in MO. I would like to be able to do that with a quick 2 hop flight for fuel and bio break and hopefully be there in around 5.5 hours. If I was to do that in a 172 I would be looking at 7 to 8 hours. I like the fact that a lot of these planes I like can do that speed with a IO360 200HP engine or equivalent so the fuel economy is also there.

Cheers,
Chris
 
James331 said:
Just call AVEMCO and airpower, airpower is a little better at odd ball stuff, don't give them any N numbers till you're ready to pay though.
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This. TJ at Airpower specializes in the odd stuff and warbirds. You'll likely get much better quotes and coverage with Airpower.
 
I talked to the four-letter broker because I had renters through them and got quotes for a mustang and an RV, both around 50k hull and the quotes were around $1100. Ended up going with the RV... but the hull value is higher now. Must stop buying stuffs...
 
rolivi said:
I talked to the four-letter broker because I had renters through them and got quotes for a mustang and an RV, both around 50k hull and the quotes were around $1100. Ended up going with the RV... but the hull value is higher now. Must stop buying stuffs...
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Rob,
Thanks for the info. That's good to know. So I would say that's very comparable to any other certified plane of that value. Had you owed any other planes before the RV?

Cheers,
Chris
 
cholubaz said:
Hello all,

Can any of you who have owned both a certified factory plane. Cessna, Piper, Beechcraft, etc.. and also some kind of experimental please tell me what you have found to be true when it comes to insuring them.

For example a 200hr pilot with complex and HP endorsements owning a Bonanza or Mooney etc.. now wants to get something like a Lancair, Velocity, Vans RV etc..

Are we talking considerably more to insure? Any other gotchas to be aware of?

Cheers,
Chris
Click to expand...
There will be a big difference between these. If you search the VAF forum for insurance you may find what some are paying. I know the RV rates were about 3 times what our lowly C150 cost to insure. The Lancair 2 seat models cost much more, somewhere in the range of 7-10 times what the C150 cost to insure. I have heard rates for the IVP anywhere from 4k-14k per year.
 
For myself the rates are comparable for similar value planes whether certificated or E-AB. My problem is that my insurer won't cover the initial 10 flight hours for E-AB. Other insurers will but I haven't decided what to do.
 
cholubaz said:
Rob,
Thanks for the info. That's good to know. So I would say that's very comparable to any other certified plane of that value. Had you owed any other planes before the RV?

Cheers,
Chris
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My RV is my first sole ownership plane. I'm in an equity club and deal with insurance cost of those 2 planes among 14 owners. Different animal.

I should have included quoting a Turbo Arrow in the previous.. it was bit higher but it is four place complex.

If you have an existing policy with someone, just tell them what you're thinking about. You are currently their customer, right?
 
cholubaz said:
Thanks guys,
Yes a IFR ticket would also something I would have before buying a plane.
The mission is a XC plane for 2 but would really like a 4 place if the budget allowed. For example if I wanted to do a trip from here in PHX to go see my family in MO. I would like to be able to do that with a quick 2 hop flight for fuel and bio break and hopefully be there in around 5.5 hours. If I was to do that in a 172 I would be looking at 7 to 8 hours. I like the fact that a lot of these planes I like can do that speed with a IO360 200HP engine or equivalent so the fuel economy is also there.

Cheers,
Chris
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Check into a vintage Mooney. Insurance isn't crazy (except my first year; I bought it six weeks after my checkride), especially with your Instrument Rating. Even with just an O-360, mine is 40% faster than the Skyhawk I trained in. Step up to an IO-360 and add another 15-20 knots.

Happy shopping!
 
Hank S said:
Check into a vintage Mooney. Insurance isn't crazy (except my first year; I bought it six weeks after my checkride), especially with your Instrument Rating. Even with just an O-360, mine is 40% faster than the Skyhawk I trained in. Step up to an IO-360 and add another 15-20 knots.

Happy shopping!
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That's what got me hooked on speed. My buddy bought a 81 Mooney M20K 231 which is turbocharged of course. We flew it from Phoenix to OSH last year and I have flown it a few other times and it's nice dong 175 kts or more and being being on O2 up high. :)

Cheers,
Chris
 
Went from an AA-5 at $800 per year to a Glasair at $1,200 per year. The AA-5 was $38,000 hull compared to $50,000 hull though. Not that big of a deal. I believe last year it went to $1,000. Full coverage of course.
 
Velocity173 said:
Went from an AA-5 at $800 per year to a Glasair at $1,200 per year. The AA-5 was $38,000 hull compared to $50,000 hull though. Not that big of a deal. I believe last year it went to $1,000. Full coverage of course.
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Thanks!
You guys with your real world examples are exactly what I was wanting to hear. So it seems as my info I got from others as to insurance on experimentals are very expensive and overpriced is not true and that's what I was hoping to find out. Of course everything will depend on the exact make and model, TT I have other ratings etc..

Cheers,
Chris
 
I agree with most others. Haven't seen a big difference between exp and cert. Premiums have more to do with hull value, and complexity. Ifr rating definitely helps too.
 
I was giving mean stares at a Velocity XLRG and best quote I had was $4k. 250 hours, no,hp complex and a current inst rating. Couldn't swing that.
 
For your mission, a Lancair 320/360 sounds ideal. A IV or IV-P would be another option, but personally I don't recommend those unless you're really experienced. I wouldn't buy one because I'd be afraid of killing myself in it (and I'm not exactly a newbie...).
 
James331 said:
Just call AVEMCO and airpower, airpower is a little better at odd ball stuff, don't give them any N numbers till you're ready to pay though.

Personally I think having, or not having, your IFR ticket would make more of a difference, especially with X/C friendly planes you're looking at.
Click to expand...

Why shouldn't you give N numbers?
 
Unit74 said:
I was giving mean stares at a Velocity XLRG and best quote I had was $4k. 250 hours, no,hp complex and a current inst rating. Couldn't swing that.
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That is about right if it was valued at 120k or so. It would probably cut in half after the first year of ownership.
 
luvflyin said:
Why shouldn't you give N numbers?
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Once you give a broker the N-number to get a quote, you are basically locked into that broker, with the exception of Avemco which underwrites their own policies.

A second broker won't be able to return a quote. I am not sure how long the lockout lasts.

Basically, if you want to shop brokers, just ask for basic insurance estimates on the type without giving a specific N-number. When you have settled on a broker, then give the N-number to get an exact quote.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Once you give a broker the N-number to get a quote, you are basically locked into that broker, with the exception of Avemco which underwrites their own policies.

A second broker won't be able to return a quote. I am not sure how long the lockout lasts.

Basically, if you want to shop brokers, just ask for basic insurance estimates on the type without giving a specific N-number. When you have settled on a broker, then give the N-number to get an exact quote.
Click to expand...

Got it. Do they go so far as to keep track of your name and email to keep you from "shopping around?"
 
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