ZOA Question

Indy Center is located...at the Indianapolis Airport.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well if it's been hardened properly, I suppose they expected them to be around...for a little while at least.

http://www.zlcalumni.com/history-through-1966
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Might be a good idea to go look at one of those buildings.

Hardened? LA Center is a run of the mill steel building. It's just as hardened as the day care center in front of it or the outdoor air museum across the street.

The real reason they are far away is because you don't need an enroute center near a major airport (though LA Center is right next to KPMD), but you do need it in a good location to get radio and radar feeds, and good access to a workforce.

Sure, you could put Oakland Center at OAK or at Bay Farm Island, but there is no need to do that.

For even more fun, do you know where NorCal is? That they were formerly Bay TRACon will not help you. It IS in NorCal, but not anywhere near the Bay. SoCal is also nowhere near LAX.
 
MAKG1 said:
Might be a good idea to go look at one of those buildings.

Hardened? LA Center is a run of the mill steel building. It's just as hardened as the day care center in front of it or the outdoor air museum across the street.

The real reason they are far away is because you don't need an enroute center near a major airport (though LA Center is right next to KPMD), but you do need it in a good location to get radio and radar feeds, and good access to a workforce.

Sure, you could put Oakland Center at OAK or at Bay Farm Island, but there is no need to do that.

For even more fun, do you know where NorCal is? That they were formerly Bay TRACon will not help you. It IS in NorCal, but not anywhere near the Bay. SoCal is also nowhere near LAX.
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Well my buddy works at JAX center and he gave the nuke reason for location and also said it's hardened just like in the attached article. Mark Z gave the same reason in the other thread. Made to survive a direct hit? No, but more hardened than a typical ATC facility.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well my buddy works at JAX center and he gave the nuke reason for location and also said it's hardened just like in the attached article. Mark Z gave the same reason in the other thread. Made to survive a direct hit? No, but more hardened than a typical ATC facility.
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Let's put it this way.

Putting an ATC facility within a mile of Skunk Works and immediately south of a major Air Force test facility to avoid being a nuclear target is more than a little stupid. Not to mention, Edwards is 30 miles away with no intervening terrain.
 
I can tell you Washington center is in a crappy period government building. Not hardened. It does have a heftier fence around it than most ATC facilities I've visited. You can pretty much drive right up to the Potomac Tracon. It's just outside of the town of Leesburg. When they built it, it was probably because the land was cheap and not all that far from DC. The tracon is down in an old WWII Army facility that's being redeveloped. It's just outside the SFRA boundary. I like to hold over the building when there's a delay in letting me into IAD.
 
MAKG1 said:
Let's put it this way.

Putting an ATC facility within a mile of Skunk Works and immediately south of a major Air Force test facility to avoid being a nuclear target is more than a little stupid. Not to mention, Edwards is 30 miles away with no intervening terrain.
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Not ALL of them were located with nuclear survival in mind. Did you even read the ZLC article? Also as Mark Z said, as higher yeild weapons came along, the positioning of SOME ARTCCs outside of populated areas, no longer made much sense.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well my buddy works at JAX center and he gave the nuke reason for location and also said it's hardened just like in the attached article. Mark Z gave the same reason in the other thread. Made to survive a direct hit? No, but more hardened than a typical ATC facility.
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It's a fairly good bet that the USSR directly targeted all of the centers, as well as radar sites. It would disrupt air traffic across the continent and prevent a reaction. So, not being able to withstand a direct hit would be a really big hole in the strategy. The FAA could have put these underground, but didn't. Not to mention, withstanding radiation isn't all that good for command and control if an airburst takes out all the radio transmitters.

I think you're reproducing a myth, as did your buddy and that unofficial "history" article.
 
MAKG1 said:
...For even more fun, do you know where NorCal is? That they were formerly Bay TRACon will not help you. It IS in NorCal, but not anywhere near the Bay...
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My understanding when that happened was that rather than Bay Approach becoming NorCal Approach, the latter was created by combining several approach control facilities.
 
I think MEM Center is on or adjacent to Memphis.
 
The Potomac Tracon isn't anywhere near the Potomac. At least it is within the airspace it controls.
 
Unit74 said:
I don't think the name has anything to do with where they are at. Its the sector they are controlling. Its all over remote radios and VoIP these days... Hence,"Switch to my frequency" when you talking to the same guy but crossed from one sector to another.
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ARTCCs have always used remote radios due to the large areas they cover. The names come from the nearest large city. The only center that is actually in its namesake city is Albuquerque.
 
Mason said:
Chicago Center is nowhere near Chicago.
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At least it's idenifier ZAU reflects the fact it is in Aurora, IL. Aurora isn't what I'd call "nowhere near" Chicago.
Likewise, Cleaveland's ZOB identifier reflects it's location in Oberlin.

Boston Center isn't even in the same state.
Washington Center (ZDC) is in Leesburg, VA (though to be fair, none of the DC airports are in DC either; ZDC is almost in the surface area for the IAD class B).

kkoran said:
The only center that is actually in its namesake city is Albuquerque.
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Indianapolis Center is in Indianapolis.
Anchorage Center is in Anchorage.
Miami Center is in Miami.
Honolulu Center is in Honolulu.
Memphis Center is in Memphis.
Ft. Worth Center is in Ft. Worth.
Houston Center is in Houston.
Salt Lake Center is in Salt Lake (City).
 
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MAKG1 said:
For even more fun, do you know where NorCal is? That they were formerly Bay TRACon will not help you. It IS in NorCal, but not anywhere near the Bay. SoCal is also nowhere near LAX.
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On or near McClellan Airport in Sacramento.
 
ateamer said:
On or near McClellan Airport in Sacramento.
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It's actually near Mather (KMHR). I was able to do a tour there, it was exactly what I expected. Cool to put faces to voices.
 
Seanaldinho said:
Most of them are located outside of the city proper, the idea being in the event of an attack they will be protected.
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Actually, they want the ARTCC out in the boonies because they will be targeted first, and they want to save the population.
 
MAKG1 said:
It's a fairly good bet that the USSR directly targeted all of the centers, as well as radar sites.
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Wouldn't they just do an EMP strike and effectively kill all the electronics rather than try to hit each one?
 
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