Airspeed is... WTF... alive?

Timbeck2 said:
(yells from the ground) Make sure you grab your first aid kit before you punch out. The ground is rough and hard and I cut my knee on a rock. I'm down here doing the Peter Griffin thing.
Click to expand...

What's funny is I know exactly which Peter Griffin thing you are referring to without hitting Google!

Anyway, as long as there is a cold beer somewhere near where I hit the ground, and my arm is still intact enough to reach for it, we're all good :)
 
mscard88 said:
Okkkkkkkkk, instead of aborting with enough remaining runway, or aborting and ground speed decreasing rapidly as you run off the end of the runway and possibly into your trees, and letting the wings take the punishment while the your safer in the fuselage.
Click to expand...

You know, the more I think about it the more I realize that this is a personality thing. Everyone has their own risk management strategies, rooted most likely in their personality traits and life experiences. you'll go for the trees hoping to stay safe in your cocoon while i'll probably take a chance on a go around grasping for options. Just the way we are.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
I'm only PIC when I'm solo and when I'm solo, I'm doing what I've learned from a very competent man. He'll be the first to attest that I don't hide behind his authority, as I question things at every chance and sometimes deviate from "his methods" to methods that work better for me. I'm not afraid to call him out on things if I don't think they are right. However, in the case of checking instruments and gauges during takeoff roll, I think he is correct to advise such and that it is unnecessarily dangerous to do otherwise.
Click to expand...


SkyHog said:
Are you sure this is true? Reference "logging vs. acting." I'm not saying one way or the other, but give it some thought.
Click to expand...

Huh? I know this wasn't directed at me, but...
I've given it some thought. What am I missing here?
 
JoeSelch said:
Huh? I know this wasn't directed at me, but...
I've given it some thought. What am I missing here?
Click to expand...

The idea is to push for a reference, rather than a "My CFI said..."

So I'm asking him to back up the assertion - can a student pilot BE PIC, even if he can't LOG PIC.
 
Phillip said:
In thousands of youtube videos of various takeoffs the incantation of the airspeed vrility from the PIC comes at the critical time between forward throttle and liftoff.
Click to expand...


Vitality, not virility. It's "Airspeed alive", not "Airspeed erect".
 
SkyHog said:
The idea is to push for a reference, rather than a "My CFI said..."

So I'm asking him to back up the assertion - can a student pilot BE PIC, even if he can't LOG PIC.
Click to expand...

OK. So now we're to consider
Acting,
Logging, and
Being
PIC.

Got it.
 
Phillip said:
Youtube cannot lie, so the question: why anyone care for the airspeed to be undead at takeoff?

In thousands of youtube videos of various takeoffs the incantation of the airspeed verility from the PIC comes at the critical time between forward throttle and liftoff. Thinking rationally about this, among the several performance indicators that are truly important at takeoff (RPM, Fuel Pressure) and general desirability of keeping eyes outside why would anyone care about validating the pitot static system then and there. It is not critical for the flight at that point, so why even bother?

I was taught to keep my eyes outside the cockpit at all time during takeoff. I am somewhat lax at that since majority of my flights originate and terminate at class Charlie airport where there are others tasked with assuring the separation. So I do briefly check the RPM and Fuel Pressure during acceleration, simply because the loss of those would leave me next no time to react. But the thousands of takeoffs on youtube, which cannot lie, make no references to RPM or FP, and the incessant parroting of "Airspeed is alive" makes me suspect there is a secret society of pitot static observers I was not somehow invited to join.

Anyways, whats with the "Airspeed is alive" magic spell?
Click to expand...

For a small single engine VFR plane? Not all that much of a safety concern but more of an instrument operational requirement. I wouldn't call it unreasonable or unsafe to glance down on take off roll to make sure it's working.

Some aircraft have systems that function off the pitot / static system, therefore it is vital to have an "alive" ASI on take off.
 
Last edited:
Its a good idea to check the ASI and the engine instruments on the takeoff roll if you have the time and conditions permit.

Directional control is your #1 priority and if the airplane and/or wind don't permit it, its okay to skip.
 
Phillip said:
I do (check the ASI). I am PPLd with fairly short hours (about 200TT). I am at the point where the routine aviating tasks are more or less habitual and I can pay some attention to analysing/questioning my cockpit "habits".
Click to expand...

Ah, yes... The dreaded Phase of Complacency. :goofy: Enjoy it, for it typically does not last long. :hairraise:
 
TheGolfPilot said:
It takes literally a half a second to look see your airspeed is alive. Takes another half second to make sure your gauges are green. Both of things are very critical to the first few moments of an IFR flight, or any flight. Not checking them is just flat negligent.
Click to expand...

I glance about a half second for oil pressure/fuel pressure as I accelerate. ASI and RPM can be seen in your lower peripheral vision while still keeping your eyes on the runway if you practice not staring it down (ASI is top left gauge and RPM top right gauge in my 6 pack panel).

TheGolfPilot said:
I have had the airspeed indicator not come alive before. I was in VMC, but catching it through 30-40 knots gave me plenty of time to safely stop the plane and fix the problem.
Click to expand...

Have the CFI cover it next flight review and learn how to use the tach for landing. I've only lost ASI's while airborne ...

TheGolfPilot said:
I have also had my the oil pressure drop to 0 on a takeoff run. Had a lose tube. Had I taken off, I would have probably been landing in the desert somewhere.
Click to expand...

That'd be a definite abort takeoff scenario ...

TheGolfPilot said:
Not checking those things on the takeoff run to "keep my eyes outside" is just stupid. Fly the plane first, and in this case, make sure the plane wants to fly.
Click to expand...

I generally agree. In my area, coyotes and other assorted "targets" like to scamper across the runway just as you are nearing rotation. A quick glance for fuel-oil pressure at initial acceleration and using peripheral for tach and ASI as your speed increases are your safest bet.

On another note: my run-ups take literally 2-3 minutes, but I'm usually in the run-up area longer trying to warm my oil temps. The taxi from the T-hangars wasn't wasted as I confirmed T&B/inclinometer were working in the turns to the run up area and gyro was responsive to braking.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Yeah, I'm a bit lost on why someone would choose not to do this. My CFI always has me glance down to make sure everything is "in the green" during takeoff roll (especially oil temp & pressure). When I do that, I also quickly check my ASI and RPM. Figure it's best to abort a takeoff than deal with problems airborne...
Click to expand...
Glance is one thing...

I was with a pilot making his first attempt at taking off with a tailwheel when he ended up 30 or 40 degrees off runway heading while he studied the instrument panel. That was a fun ride. I didn't offer to let him try the landing.

I suspect that this is one reason that some people think that tailwheel aircraft are somehow "difficult".
 
Phillip said:
I do check the ASI and the FP/RPM. The goals here are safety and the efficient use of my mental focus (limited resource). What I've observed is that I look at the panel way too much, cause that's how my mind is wired, I am an engineer by trade. Where I want to get to is eyes out all the time except the specific and limited cockpit tasks. Right now with the time I spend looking at the panel I am making myself less safe than I could be.

THe airspeed is alive callout reminds me of the "Stop, do not move" callout in armed self defense classes. Both seem perfunctory and somewhat disingenious to me. :)
Click to expand...

So which diverts your limited mental focus... the act of looking at the ASI or the words being emitted from your vocal cords?

I maintain it's the former. Whether a person subsequently vocally utters "airspeed is alive" is a personal preference. Either way, you are looking down at the ASI to confirm that it's working... which is the point. And if you passed a checkride then you at least did this at that time.

So what, exactly, is your beef with this practice again? :rolleyes2:

My guess... trolling.
 
SkyHog said:
The idea is to push for a reference, rather than a "My CFI said..."

So I'm asking him to back up the assertion - can a student pilot BE PIC, even if he can't LOG PIC.
Click to expand...

Student pilots can most certainly log PIC time. Unless you're being coy and trying to intimate that a student pilot is "acting the role" of PIC whilst sitting abeam/abreast/aside/afore/aft of a CFI, who is really the acting PIC and is eligible to log such dual time as PIC. And Cajun Flyer is a girl, not a "him."
 
If it helps, I learned something.
I too have watched all the "airspeed alive" youtubes and thought that it meant airspeed was at a sufficient point to rotate. Then several seconds later they would rotate and it always confused me.

Now it makes perfect sense. :lol:
 
petrolero said:
Either way, you are looking down at the ASI to confirm that it's working... which is the point. And if you passed a checkride then you at least did this at that time.

So what, exactly, is your beef with this practice again? :rolleyes2:

My guess... trolling.
Click to expand...

No sir. No magic spells on my checkride. I was not taught any verbalizations on takeoff. If I were, I wouldn't be asking the question, I guess, or I'd be asking it differently. Maintain directional control, look out, keep the hand on the throttle, that's about it, AFAIR.

The main beef is the cost of the distraction from actual aviating.
 
FastEddieB said:
Just stumbled upon this train wreck.

Phillip's posting style is eerily familiar. I suspect it's not his first rodeo, so to speak.
Click to expand...

Long time listener, first time caller. You'd be wrong.
 
Phillip said:
The main beef is the cost of the distraction from actual aviating.
Click to expand...

It's not a distraction EARLY in the takeoff run! The engine seizing up at the departure end and the plane crashing, well maybe not distracting but definitely ruins your day!
 
FastEddieB said:
Just stumbled upon this train wreck.

Phillip's posting style is eerily familiar. I suspect it's not his first rodeo, so to speak.
Click to expand...

Yeah I had a thought it was the same poster about the various type ratings thread myself. :D
 
Phillip said:
The main beef is the cost of the distraction from actual aviating.
Click to expand...

You do realize that "actual aviating" involves safety checks too, right? Pretty much everything that keeps one alive while the engine is running is actual aviating.


...d@mnit... I bit the bait. I'd make a terrible fish :nonod:
 
Lachlan said:
Student pilots can most certainly log PIC time. Unless you're being coy and trying to intimate that a student pilot is "acting the role" of PIC whilst sitting abeam/abreast/aside/afore/aft of a CFI, who is really the acting PIC and is eligible to log such dual time as PIC. And Cajun Flyer is a girl, not a "him."
Click to expand...

I think you missed the point of the post you quoted. Not surprising. You're a CFI, aren't you?
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
You do realize that "actual aviating" involves safety checks too, right? Pretty much everything that keeps one alive while the engine is running is actual aviating.


...d@mnit... I bit the bait. I'd make a terrible fish :nonod:
Click to expand...

A fish called Wanda, or is it Cajun? :idea: :D
 
SkyHog said:
The idea is to push for a reference, rather than a "My CFI said..."

So I'm asking him to back up the assertion - can a student pilot BE PIC, even if he can't LOG PIC.
Click to expand...
Negative. Think of it this way: if the instructor is in the plane, and is not PIC, then he's a passenger, and a student pilot can't carry passengers.

Cajun has it right: the only time a student pilot is PIC (acting, or logging for that matter), is when solo.
 
azure said:
Negative. Think of it this way: if the instructor is in the plane, and is not PIC, then he's a passenger, and a student pilot can't carry passengers.

Cajun has it right: the only time a student pilot is PIC (acting, or logging for that matter), is when solo.
Click to expand...

And how do you know that to be true...

That's what I'm trying to push for here. Cajun should be able to answer that one without having to start with "my CFI told me..."
 
azure said:
Cajun has it right: the only time a student pilot is PIC (acting, or logging for that matter), is when solo.
Click to expand...

.... or with friends going to a beer run ... still logging it as PIC anyway. :D

Ooops, did I just derail this thread in another direction? That sure was not my intent. Or was it? :D :lol: :rofl: :mad2:
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
You do realize that "actual aviating" involves safety checks too, right? Pretty much everything that keeps one alive while the engine is running is actual aviating.


...d@mnit... I bit the bait. I'd make a terrible fish :nonod:
Click to expand...

:rofl: :rofl: :D
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
You do realize that "actual aviating" involves safety checks too, right? Pretty much everything that keeps one alive while the engine is running is actual aviating.


...d@mnit... I bit the bait. I'd make a terrible fish :nonod:
Click to expand...

<---- bleeding out
 
You're missing the point. Airspeed is a proxy for RPM and engine power, and as an added bonus, a direct indicator of pitot/static health. So the check for airspeed and oil pressure kills all the birds with 2 stones and lets you, oh, keep your eyes outside quicker.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
You do realize that "actual aviating" involves safety checks too, right? Pretty much everything that keeps one alive while the engine is running is actual aviating.
Click to expand...

I know it is difficult to imagine, but we are working on the same safety thing here... You are doing it in the manner that is appropriate to where you are now in your curriculum. Minus the submissiveness and the "holier than thou", evident in your remarks.
 
Phillip said:
Minus the submissiveness and the "holier than thou", evident in your remarks.
Click to expand...

Oh c'mon man, Cajun wasn't coming across like that. She was just disagreeing with you, like most on this post have. Someday though it'll all come from together for ya! :D
 
Lachlan said:
Ah, yes... The dreaded Phase of Complacency. :goofy: Enjoy it, for it typically does not last long. :hairraise:
Click to expand...

I knew someone was going to bring this up! Don't stop there, please expound!
 
mscard88 said:
Goodness! Are we making progress with Phillip, or wearing him down? :wink2: :D
Click to expand...

He will be qualified as a Falcon contract SIC before we know it. He already knows it all.
 
Phillip said:
No sir. No magic spells on my checkride. I was not taught any verbalizations on takeoff. If I were, I wouldn't be asking the question, I guess, or I'd be asking it differently. Maintain directional control, look out, keep the hand on the throttle, that's about it, AFAIR.

The main beef is the cost of the distraction from actual aviating.
Click to expand...

Like I said, if there is any distraction, it's in the looking down at the ASI and not the verbalization. Shirley you looked at your ASI during your checkride.

Lots of people verbalize things at certain points. It costs nothing in terms of attention out the window.
 
mscard88 said:
Oh c'mon man, Cajun wasn't coming across like that. She was just disagreeing with you, like most on this post have. Someday though it'll all come from together for ya! :D
Click to expand...

No need to have my back... I may apparently be submissive (?!! lol), but apparently I am also holier than thou, so that must mean I think I am amazing enough to defend myself. Unless of couse my CFI says I can't, then I have to do what he says without question because I hide behind authority and he is a God.

This thread is very helpful. I'm learning about myself today!

Think I'm going to make fish for dinner tonight. Wanna come over, MsCard? ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top