ATP SafetyPilot

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What's the minimum amount of time you could have at ATP check ride if you maxed out your SafetyPilot time?

You need some instrument time so you couldn't be SP for that...and you need to be current, so no SP for that...but could you get you ATP with like 10 hours of actually flying?
 
What's the minimum amount of time you could have at ATP check ride if you maxed out your SafetyPilot time?

You need some instrument time so you couldn't be SP for that...and you need to be current, so no SP for that...but could you get you ATP with like 10 hours of actually flying?

10 hrs ab initio no way. What is your beginning reference? I'm not going to work it out, but from ab initio, I would think you'll have at least 120 hrs as sole manipulator. But with that you would not be able to pass an ATP ride.
 
What's the minimum amount of time you could have at ATP check ride if you maxed out your SafetyPilot time?

You need some instrument time so you couldn't be SP for that...and you need to be current, so no SP for that...but could you get you ATP with like 10 hours of actually flying?

Well in order to get your ATP you need to have a commercial and an instrument rating. In order to get a commercial you have to have a private. Already know for the private you need 3 hours cross country training, 3 hours instrument training, 3 hours in prep for the practical test, and 10 hours of solo...So no...
 
Well in order to get your ATP you need to have a commercial and an instrument rating. In order to get a commercial you have to have a private. Already know for the private you need 3 hours cross country training, 3 hours instrument training, 3 hours in prep for the practical test, and 10 hours of solo...So no...

All except solo can be SP, no? Okay...PPL is 40 (no SP). By from then on SP hours can go WAY up, right?

Maybe ATP with 60 to 100 flying hours and the rest as Safety Pilot?
 
All except solo can be SP, no? Okay...PPL is 40 (no SP). By from then on SP hours can go WAY up, right?

Maybe ATP with 60 to 100 flying hours and the rest as Safety Pilot?

40 for the Private
20 for commercial training
5 night solo
ATP is gonna require at least 75 hours instrument.

Besides that, I guess you could. Would love to sit in on the checkrides...
 
40 for the Private
20 for commercial training
5 night solo
ATP is gonna require at least 75 hours instrument.

Besides that, I guess you could. Would love to sit in on the checkrides...

:yeahthat:
 
You need 500 hours of XC time. I'm not sure you can get that through safety pilot time.
 
\__[Ô]__/;1964446 said:
You need 500 hours of XC time. I'm not sure you can get that through safety pilot time.

SIC counts doesn't it?
 
\__[Ô]__/;1964446 said:
You need 500 hours of XC time. I'm not sure you can get that through safety pilot time.

Uhh, safety pilot on a flight over 50nm :dunno:
 
Uhh, safety pilot on a flight over 50nm :dunno:

Might be different for the ATP XC since the XC rules are different, but you can't log XC toward commercial or instrument when you're the safety pilot.
 
\__[Ô]__/;1964457 said:
Might be different for the ATP XC since the XC rules are different, but you can't log XC toward commercial or instrument when you're the safety pilot.

Huh, where does it say this?
 
SIC counts doesn't it?

Uhh, safety pilot on a flight over 50nm :dunno:

Chief Counsel says the person logging the XC time has to be a required crewmember for the entirety of the flight and has to perform the landing.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...009/gebhart - (2009) legal interpretation.pdf

"Section 61.65(d) contemplates that only the pilot conducting the entire flight, including the takeoff, landing, and enroute flight as a required crewmember may log cross-country flight time."

I think MacPherson's interpretation is bunk--the regulation doesn't say what she says that it says--but we've had this discussion before.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65707
 
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\__[Ô]__/;1964457 said:
Might be different for the ATP XC since the XC rules are different, but you can't log XC toward commercial or instrument when you're the safety pilot.

I tried finding a reference to support this but can't find any.
 
Huh, where does it say this?

It seems to be a well recited thing that only one of the pilots may log XC since you don't get the landings. Additionally you didn' fly the 50 NM since the other pilot was manipulating the controls . Dont know if it true but it's just how I have always heard it.


Edit : ^ beat me to it
 
SP is required when the other guy s under the hood, so you would have to do at least the last .1 as PIC for the landings, so if you do 250 2hr cross countries, that's 25hrs PIC sole manipulator.

So you could do 5000 1 hr cross countries to get the 500 XC required ?
 
SP is required when the other guy s under the hood, so you would have to do at least the last .1 as PIC for the landings, so if you do 250 2hr cross countries, that's 25hrs PIC sole manipulator.

Your statement is not congruent with the source.
 
SP is required when the other guy s under the hood, so you would have to do at least the last .1 as PIC for the landings, so if you do 250 2hr cross countries, that's 25hrs PIC sole manipulator.

But then again you didn't do the navigating like in the interpretation. The PIC flying the plane did that.
 
It seems to be a well recited thing that only one of the pilots may log XC since you don't get the landings. Additionally you didn' fly the 50 NM since the other pilot was manipulating the controls . Dont know if it true but it's just how I have always heard it.


Edit : ^ beat me to it

Is it in the FAR?

I...have a friend... who counted a some safety pilot time (clearly marked in the log book) as both XC and hood for both the IFR and CPL and the ATP, though by the time he took the ATP he was well over and didn't need the old safety pilot time.

Log book has been through 3 DPEs and 1 fed (CFI ride), no one said jack...from what I heard.
 
But then again you didn't do the navigating like in the interpretation. The PIC flying the plane did that.

I didn't say it was optimal, just manages the legal. Hell, ALLATPS use to send Seminoles out with 3 people logging Multi PIC, ME/instrument student in the left seat under the hood, ME/CFI student acting as SP in the right, MEI in the back seat providing instruction to the CP/SP in the right seat.:lol:
 
Is a commercial a prerequisite to the ATP? Couldn't you have a bunch of PPL hours and take an ATP ride assuming all the requirements are met?
 
Just cause they overlooked it doesn't mean it is right.

Personally, if it's done right and both are active, not some dude day dreaming and the other flying, I don't really have a problem with it.

Now the ATP Inc. 3 dudes in a Seminole is another story :no:


Ether way, if it's not in the FAR...
 
Is a commercial a prerequisite to the ATP? Couldn't you have a bunch of PPL hours and take an ATP ride assuming all the requirements are met?

There is a military cross over exception, but otherwise CPL is a prerequisite.
 
There is a military cross over exception, but otherwise CPL is a prerequisite.

Military guys still need to have a commercial, but only have to take a quci written test to get it and the instrument rating.
 
Is it in the FAR?

I...have a friend... who counted a some safety pilot time (clearly marked in the log book) as both XC and hood for both the IFR and CPL and the ATP, though by the time he took the ATP he was well over and didn't need the old safety pilot time.

Log book has been through 3 DPEs and 1 fed (CFI ride), no one said jack...from what I heard.

See link to interpretation above for XC rule.

I assume there are lots of people with similar logbook issues. I think before the 2009 interpretation, everyone assumed it was obvious you could count it as XC. Still, lots of people assume it counts. Could be the DPEs and feds didn't know/care about the interpretation.

Or maybe they didn't bother to look closely? I've been through 7(?) DPEs and feds. Apart from checking that I had the proper endorsements, the only the time someone looked through my logbook in any detail was for a private ride.
 
Military guys still need to have a commercial, but only have to take a quci written test to get it and the instrument rating.

Is that how they work it? I remember a buddy got out and he went straight to a ATP from the FAA, I didn't know all the details but I know he only took one ride.
 
\__[Ô]__/;1964516 said:
See link to interpretation above for XC rule.

I assume there are lots of people with similar logbook issues. I think before the 2009 interpretation, everyone assumed it was obvious you could count it as XC. Still, lots of people assume it counts. Could be the DPEs and feds didn't know/care about the interpretation.

Or maybe they didn't bother to look closely? I've been through 7(?) DPEs and feds. Apart from checking that I had the proper endorsements, the only the time someone looked through my logbook in any detail was for a private ride.

If it's not in the FAR it's not a logbook issue IMO.
 
If it's not in the FAR it's not a logbook issue IMO.

Fair enough. But if anyone's going to get tripped up by that legal interpretation on an ATP ride, it's probably the guy who shows up with 100 hours of actually flying a plane and 1400 hours of safety pilot time. That's odd enough to get people asking questions and looking into whether that's even possible.
 
Is that how they work it? I remember a buddy got out and he went straight to a ATP from the FAA, I didn't know all the details but I know he only took one ride.

Yeah you'd still only take one ride. But have to take the Military Competency written to get the commercial single/multi instrument.
 
\__[Ô]__/;1964705 said:
Fair enough. But if anyone's going to get tripped up by that legal interpretation on an ATP ride, it's probably the guy who shows up with 100 hours of actually flying a plane and 1400 hours of safety pilot time. That's odd enough to get people asking questions and looking into whether that's even possible.

It would certainly cause people to ask you some interesting questions, but it is possible to have the right answers. The real problem at 100hrs of manipulation time in 1500hrs is you won't have the skills required to pass the ride.
 
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