Check my checklist

Pedals2Paddles

Pedals2Paddles

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Pedals2Paddles
I'm making a new checklist for the 172K. I wasn't happy with any of the generics. Please check my checklist. Anything I missed or should change?

C172K Checklist (PDF)
(updated 1700 11/25)
 
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Do you really have fuel vents on both sides? Most 172s have just one, and a vented cap on the other. There is also no stall horn or pitot tube on the right wing.

You need a circuit breaker check before start, and it's conventional to do a passenger briefing then as well.

Check the primer is locked at some point before run-up.

Before taxi, radio goes to ground, CD or CTAF. Not Tower. After (or before) run-up, it goes to Tower or CTAF. Ground only if you reject the run-up.

Transponder should be checked right after engine start, and set to 1200 or assigned code, on ALT. Until a few years ago, that was STBY. Just leave on ALT all the time per AIM.

Maneuvering, you should record altitude, speed and heading. You're going to want those numbers after the maneuver. You should also make at least two 90 deg normal turns for clearing. Lift a wing before every turn to check a really nasty blind spot.

I don't think your V-speeds are right for a go-around. Vx in particular should be the 20 deg flap value, not the flaps-up value.

After landing, it's a good idea (though not rigorously necessary) to trim for takeoff.

Fuel selector goes to left or right, not off, on shutdown. It only goes off if you're combating an engine fire or forced landing. Getting a gascolator sample when the fuel valve is off can be "interesting."

For securing, when the tow bar comes out of the back, keys are IN HAND. Period, no exceptions. Same deal for reaching through the prop arc for any reason. Never power over a tiedown.

You'll find the list of local frequencies will never be enough, and the ones that are on there you'll memorize very quickly. That's better kept elsewhere.

Emergencies should match the POH rather closely. Having said that, I don't understand why you would want to mess with ignition or fuel selector if the engine quits on the takeoff roll. Unless you operate on a very short runway where you'll overrun. Also, I'd leave the flaps down if they weren't already up for the extra drag.

The best way to troubleshoot a homemade checklist is to use it. You'll quickly figure out what's in order and what's missing.
 
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MAKG1 said:
[snipping of good comments]
Before taxi, radio goes to ground, CD or CTAF. Not Tower. After (or before) run-up, it goes to Tower or CTAF. Ground only if you reject the run-up.
[snipping of more good comments]
Click to expand...

Radio order with run-up etc. is field dependent. My home drove (KORL) has changed since I began flying out of there. It used to be tell ground when you're done with the run up and they tell you to monitor tower. Now it's tell the tower when you're ready and ground doesn't talk to you after you're cleared to taxi unless you have to hold short of the intersecting runway.

Just as a data point.

The best way to troubleshoot a homemade checklist is to use it. You'll quickly figure out what's in order and what's missing.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

John
 
Obviously all items from the left wing are not on the right wing. But there was no need to repeat the things that are. I changed the wording to "check applicable".

Will add a CB check before start.

Added primer locked to the engine start.

The radio setting line in before taxi is reminding you to set all the frequencies you can ahead of time. Dual coms, flip-flops, etc. The radio call line however has been changed to "as needed".

Transponder is already on the after start for Alt. Added 1200.

Fixed the go around, forgot about that. Flaps 20 > Vx > Clear obstacle > Flaps up > Vy.

Will add the trim reset to the after landing.

Why not shut off the fuel after shutdown? Why just left or right? Turning it back on is on the preflight cockpit setup, before checking the gascolator.

The keys in hand anything that involves your body near the prob is slightly negated by the keys being removable in any setting. At least our old 150 was like that. Haven't actually tried that on the 172. I have "keys on dash" in the preflight though.

You are right about the frequencies. But this place will be used for a lot of training, so it is helpful for now anyway.
 
Not that this effort isn't valiant, but are the generic quick check lists really THAT lacking? I've never had issues. If you need a full check list in hand in the cockpit, personally I'd just copy the POH procedures.
 
Too long, too many unnecessary items (Starter----Turn to start). Really? You need a checklist to tell you to turn the starter??

That's just an example, cut out the nonessential stuff.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Not that this effort isn't valiant, but are the generic quick check lists really THAT lacking? I've never had issues. If you need a full check list in hand in the cockpit, personally I'd just copy the POH procedures.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why so many keep wanting to reinvent the wheel w city checklist. Do a flow, keep it simple.
 
I certainly don't need to be reminded to start the engine. But it was an item in every other checklist I referenced, and in the POH. I think having it there basically says "ok, you've done everything you need to start". As opposed to reminding you to turn the key.

Making the checklist myself helps me immensely in remembering everything. And it will be complete and useful for everyone that uses our plane.
 
If you were flight checked, an examiner would probably prefer you establish PIC before engine start and you might add "PAX Brief"

Short/Soft field --- might want to break those out to SOFT FIELD and SHORT FIELD specific check categories
(don't go to full engine power with brakes on for soft field -- might drive tires into the muck. Also do a running start rather than stop and hold for soft field, and get your nose up as soon as the elevators will raise them. Don't wait for rotate speed on a soft field. Upon Unstick, hold acft in ground affect until it accelerates to Vx [You want aircraft to take-off at Vs1]).

Why do you checklist adjusting/leaning mixture during runup only to contradict this by going full rich for takeoff?

Also, you might want to annotate that this checklist is FDK specific rather than generic airport useful
 
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Added the pax briefing. Changed the mixture after the run-up to say Leaned for taxi. I firmly believe that the only time the mixture should be full rich on the ground is for starting, running up, taking off, and landing. Any other time I'm sitting idle or taxiing, it should be leaned. So it is in there to lean the mixture back once the run-up is complete. No need to foul the plugs while completing the checklist items and waiting for takeoff. Especially if the run-up is done somewhere other than just before the runway.

The only thing FDK specific about this checklist is the frequency cheat sheet. What else is specific to FDK?
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
What else is specific to FDK?
Click to expand...

Assumption that you are at/near MSL for takeoff (leaning, for instance. Get into the hills, and you don't want mixture to be full rich unless you want to drown the engine during the takeoff run, maneuvering, cruising, etc.)
 
I agree. I know that, you know that. But the POH and every checklist I've read for reference says full rich. They should all say something else, but they don't. I don't know why. Something like "Mixture - Set for takeoff". But then what's that?
 
RotorAndWing said:
I don't understand why so many keep wanting to reinvent the wheel w city checklist. Do a flow, keep it simple.
Click to expand...

Because it's a REALLY good way to work out the flows, and learn the procedures. I use the technique for that purpose, as part of a checkout in a new model.

The canned checklists don't flow very well. Neither do the manufacturers' (and they sometimes leave out stuff I'd rather do, e.g., the C182T factory checklist never drops the flaps for inspection).

In the presence of OpsSpecs, homemade checklists may be forbidden. CAP does that (IMO, it's a mistake, as the manufacturer checklists have omissions and are extremely verbose, but that's not my decision).
 
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Pedals2Paddles said:
I agree. I know that, you know that. But the POH and every checklist I've read for reference says full rich. They should all say something else, but they don't. I don't know why. Something like "Mixture - Set for takeoff". But then what's that?
Click to expand...

Many of the checklists say something like "mixture … best power," which at sea level in a 172 is full rich.
 
Add seats in upright position, meal trays stored.
 
That's exactly why I'm doing this. It's a learning experience. It makes me ask questions and get answers. It commits things to memory. And I'm a little anal about the "canned" and POH checklists not being complete or having things that don't apply.
 
Another thing == Emergency Procedures:
Engine Fires and Failures:
Both cases you say to shut the MASTER off.
Why?
At night you will lose your lights
At all times you will lose your comms. You might consider removing those items
 
MAKG1 said:
In the presence of OpsSpecs, homemade checklists may be forbidden. CAP does that (IMO, it's a mistake, as the manufacturer checklists have omissions and are extremely verbose, but that's not my decision).
Click to expand...

OpSpecs? Which OpSpec are you referring too?
 
MAKG1 said:
Because it's a REALLY good way to work out the flows, and learn the procedures. I use the technique for that purpose, as part of a checkout in a new model.

The canned checklists don't flow very well. Neither do the manufacturers' (and they sometimes leave out stuff I'd rather do, e.g., the C182T factory checklist never drops the flaps for inspection).

.
Click to expand...

My problem with people reinventing checklist is they fill it up with nonsense. Somewhere down the road someone said "more stuff=better".

A checklist on a single engine or small twin should be one sheet of paper front and back, and it should check a common flow. For most GA planes there simply isn't enough variation to make a difference.
 
Changed the master off in emergencies to say Off Before Landing. which was always the intent.

Changed the mixture for takeoff, maneuvering, and landing to say "Set for best power". I like that.

Sadly, we did not pay for enough airplane to have reclining seats or tray tables.
 
Way too much detail, you should be looking out side when you're flying, not heads down reading an unnecessarily lengthy checklist. A good checklist is not meant to be an abbreviated "Flying a Cessna 172 for Dummies". Do what the other guys have said - come up with a flow and back that up with a simple, concise checklist. (The one on silkscreened on the sunvisor of the last Cherokee I flew comes to mind.)
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
I agree. I know that, you know that. But the POH and every checklist I've read for reference says full rich. They should all say something else, but they don't. I don't know why. Something like "Mixture - Set for takeoff". But then what's that?
Click to expand...
Didn't your CFI teach you how to set the mixture? A check list is not meant to be a substitute for the expanded procedures section of your POH. It's best used to verify your flows. It's pretty hard to see where most light GA aircraft would need anything beyond the basic CIGARS and GUMPS. Simple, short, sweet and above all, adequate.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
I agree. I know that, you know that. But the POH and every checklist I've read for reference says full rich. They should all say something else, but they don't. I don't know why. Something like "Mixture - Set for takeoff". But then what's that?
Click to expand...

"That's" the mixture properly set for takeoff to produce best power for takeoff considering the density altitude. It's fun to watch someone in Colorado (try to) takeoff full rich; assuming the engine doesn't quit on the way to the runway.

But in terms of parroting the POH language, isn't the whole idea of creating your own checklist to have one that (1) covers the essentials; (2) excludes unnecessary items; (3) makes sense and is ergonomic for you; and (4) actually gets used? At least that has been my goal in the 25 years I've been writing my own.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
I'm making a new checklist for the 172K. I wasn't happy with any of the generics. Please check my checklist. Anything I missed or should change?

C172K Checklist (PDF)
(updated 1700 11/25)
Click to expand...

The one item I dont see on many checklists and has made it to mine (paper and mental) is if you have a split master switch then cycle the alt side (field) after engine start and watch the amp gauge drop and recover.

I have lost an alternator (3) times in one rental plane that had electrical gremlins and this is a good way to know if its charging properly before I take off. So I just do it in every plane that has the capabilities now.

You can also try cycling it if the plane stops charging while flying to reset the field circuit, without disrupting the avionics power, had to do that before too.
 
RotorAndWing said:
A checklist on a single engine or small twin should be one sheet of paper front and back, and it should check a common flow. For most GA planes there simply isn't enough variation to make a difference.
Click to expand...

Well, I agree with you there. My "normal" checklists are all front and back of a single 5.5x8.5 (kneeboard size) sheet of paper. One side is stuff to do before takeoff, the other is everything else, so you flip it over right before taking the runway and leave it there for the rest of the flight, even if running around the pattern. The checklists are sorted in chronological order and color coded by phase of flight.

There are a few differences, but generally more between avionics than between models. E.g., testing an autopilot, setting a fuel totalizer, setting a GPS, etc.

For the guys worried about heads-down time, checklists for time critical items should be reviewed BEFORE doing it. No one looks at a checklist while blasting down a runway at 50 knots to figure out to rotate at 55. And checklists are not to-do lists. They are for confirmation that you did everything you should have. I'm an advocate of performing the before-landing checklist as a before-pattern checklist. Lots of stuff can happen in the pattern while you're looking down, so do it earlier.
 
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RotorAndWing said:
Too long, too many unnecessary items (Starter----Turn to start). Really? You need a checklist to tell you to turn the starter??
Click to expand...
I've always felt that way about most of the emergency checklist for engine out on the takeoff roll.

Pull the power and step on the brakes? Really?
 
I'd toss that worthless pile of instructions, take a couple of pencils out of my pocket protector, and learn the systems and flow.

John Deakin, a true expert, says it best:Throw away that stupid checklist!

I've seen "good intentioned" people like you try to ruin a good flying club with their vast knowledge.
 
MyassisDragon said:
The one item I dont see on many checklists and has made it to mine
Click to expand...
The whole idea is to make it useful for you. I always encourage my students to "roll their own." The most interesting addition I've seen was a student who did the common crosswind landing error of neutralizing the controls on rollout. One day, he showed me the latest revision to his personal checklist and right there in the before landing checklist was

CROSSWIND - Full deflection on rollout​
 
kgruber said:
I'd toss that worthless pile of instructions, take a couple of pencils out of my pocket protector, and learn the systems and flow.

John Deakin, a true expert, says it best:Throw away that stupid checklist!

I've seen "good intentioned" people like you try to ruin a good flying club with their vast knowledge.
Click to expand...

Flows are indeed an excellent tool but they assume not only a good flow but a level of both overall experience and aircraft familiarity that many of us simply don't have.

The real downside is that the lack of checklist use becomes a habit that is very difficult to break. That point was brought home to me by a pilot doing something as simple as transitioning from a 172 to a 182. After repeatedly forgetting to close cowl flaps for landing (his C172 flow missed it again and again), I simply said, "You are missing something."

He kept checking things (except for one thing) again and again, and kept missing the cowl flap handle. I kept saying "You are still missing something."

The one thing he missed checking? Never once even crossed his mind to look at the checklist sitting in his line of sight on the glare shield. It didn;t even exist for him.

I personally use a flow, which I still work on to improve since I'm just a weekend warrior who flies different makes and models. But, at least during quiet cockpit times, I will take a glance at my checklist for the phase of flight to "check" that my flow covered the important items.

BTW, did you also read Deakin's follow-up which includes:
• For ALL airplanes, I strongly advocate the use of a simple, short, "killer item only" checklist, as a REQUIRED SUPPLEMENT to the "flow pattern."

• Both are important, both are INDISPENSABLE, in my opinion. Neither is enough without the other. Can I be any more redundant, here?
Click to expand...
 
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Needs much bigger print. For my old eyes,even if you need more than 1 page.
 
Well I have 20/15 laser vision. :)


<< Sent from my mobile device at 0agl >>
 
RotorAndWing said:
A checklist on a single engine or small twin should be one sheet of paper front and back, and it should check a common flow. For most GA planes there simply isn't enough variation to make a difference.
Click to expand...

Can you point me to such a checklist? Thanks!
 
register@teamandras.com said:
Can you point me to such a checklist? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Here is one I used as a student. It's intended to be printed on two-sided US letter paper, and have the blank half cut off to fit on a kneeboard.

Keep in mind that it assumes a fairly short sea level runway at a towered field with a fuel truck, as that's what I trained on. Later checklists are more general, but I don't have those handy right now.
 

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MAKG1 said:
Here is one I used as a student. It's intended to be printed on two-sided US letter paper, and have the blank half cut off to fit on a kneeboard.

Keep in mind that it assumes a fairly short sea level runway at a towered field with a fuel truck, as that's what I trained on. Later checklists are more general, but I don't have those handy right now.
Click to expand...

Thanks MAKG1. I like that. It's definitely more compact, but I'm wondering if RotorAndWing had something really pithy in mind.
 
kgruber said:
I'd toss that worthless pile of instructions, take a couple of pencils out of my pocket protector, and learn the systems and flow.

John Deakin, a true expert, says it best:Throw away that stupid checklist!

I've seen "good intentioned" people like you try to ruin a good flying club with their vast knowledge.
Click to expand...

To be fair to Mr. Deakin's intent with that title, he had this to say in in his follow-up article:

For starters, the headline might be rewritten to say "If you're using a stupid checklist, throw it away and make a new one." I did not intend to suggest throwing away all checklists!
Click to expand...

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182038-1.html
 
I was thinking about this the other day; the whole Checklist vs Flow checks dilemma.

While training I went through several iterations of my checklist. My first was a 4 page very exhaustive list of absolutely everything that is needed learning aid / Checklist. I would make notes on it, edit it and reprint / laminate and slowly got it down to a single lpage front and back. For my check ride however I used a canned SureCheck 172N version and I really liked the format of those.

Post check ride I ended up essentially replicating the format / layout of the SureCheck list but editing the order and items to make it specific to my plane.. ie no avionics switch, Vspeeds ect.

Looking to reduce it even more so if someone has more of a Flow Check list I would be interested in that. Currently I use CGUMPS and CIGARS, then back it up with the Check (Do) List. Some things on it like 'Taxi Clearance' isn't needed since I don't need to be reminded of basic things like that anymore.
 
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