Mooney Rocket..... Houston, we have a problem.

Unit74

Unit74

Final Approach
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Unit74
I've had my Archer since May and it is absolutely an awesome plane. Go anywhere, do anything I can ask of it. But, it will TAS out at 129. My family all live on the west coast, which translates to a two day event for us.

So I have have been looking for a single day airplane and initially, an A36 was on the short list. But, for what I want, plus the insurance on it and maint reserve, I can afford to buy it, but not fly it. I don't want a minimalist equipment plane, so I'm up in the $170k range.

So I started looking at Mooney 231s and found the Rockets...... My eyes went sideways and big toe started twitching. O......M.......G............... I want. A plane that will out pace an Acclaim for 25% of the cost. :yikes:

Anyone have one? My biggest turn on is I can be in SoCal in about 6 hours flight time according to FF.


What say the peanut gallery?
 
Might try going to mooneyspace.com...search the forums there, and ask your ?
 
Not a rocket, but I know of a late model M20J owner who is ready to sell. Aircraft is very well equipped, and priced reasonably. Excellent P & I, and maintained by Don Maxwell's shop at KGGG.
 
Yep, time to do a crash course on mooneys - and more. You do have a nice ride now, but be careful of the times on ForeFlight - 6 hours does not account for potty time (my wife can last about 2 hours - max), gassing up, and flying high.

I only do 4 hours or so at 140+KTS (500+ NM) and that is a totally different kind of flying compared to the local hops here in Arkansas. What you are talking about is another leap above my 1-2 state cross countries.

(As an aside, this is the reason I've been considering a partnership at some point in an A36, B55, or even a mooney. I'll still have the short hop aircraft - the -35 - and the long distance commuter. But my current maintenance woes will push that dream back a few more years.)
 
I'll end up selling the Archer. I did read up on the plane a bit and some owners are saying pulled back to 55%' you will still get m20j speeds and a fuel burn closer to my Archer firewalled. That sounds like a win win for me. I don't need to fly at 200 kts most days, but when I want it, it would sure be nice to spool it up and get there! Plus it opens up my single tank destination list. Right now, where ever I plan to go usually ends up being where I can get on one fill up.

For $120k, I can get what I want. I'd really like to get in one and fly it first though....I'm sure it handles a wee bit different than a J at speed.
 
I have been active on Mooneyspace for several years now and I have never heard anyone say anything bad about Rockets, or Missiles. People that get Rockets absolutely love them. People that sell Rockets absolutely miss them when they are gone. It seems the only reason anyone ever sells a Rocket is for family reasons and they need more room in the plane for family and baggage.

They are still supported to a degree. There are some Rocket specific parts that can be a pain to get I guess, but not a lot. It's still 80% Mooney. Everyone seems to manage. As others have suggested, go join Mooneyspace and ask away in the forum called "Modern Mooneys". There are some active Rocket owners on the forums and they'll give you the straight talk about them.

It's a great plane. Too bad there are declining numbers of them.
 
Unit74 said:
I'd really like to get in one and fly it first though....I'm sure it handles a wee bit different than a J at speed.
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Yes, I'm told it does handle very different than either the M20K it is made from and also the later long body Mooneys. If you do buy one, get specific instruction in it by someone with Rocket experience for sure. They are unique Mooneys.
 
Unit74 said:
I'll end up selling the Archer. I did read up on the plane a bit and some owners are saying pulled back to 55%' you will still get m20j speeds and a fuel burn closer to my Archer firewalled. That sounds like a win win for me. I don't need to fly at 200 kts most days, but when I want it, it would sure be nice to spool it up and get there! Plus it opens up my single tank destination list. Right now, where ever I plan to go usually ends up being where I can get on one fill up.

For $120k, I can get what I want. I'd really like to get in one and fly it first though....I'm sure it handles a wee bit different than a J at speed.
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the biggest reason that pushed me out of a cherokee was its speed. 110knots is fine, but a 30 knot headwind pushes you into double digits. In my mooney, I'm still doing 120 groundspeed instead of 80. still doing 40 knots faster than a cherokee but going 50% faster on a similar fuel burn.

speed is addictive to a lot of people. I used to get stoked about seeing 130 knots in the cherokee, now I'm bummed when I see it. I couldn't imagine having 190-200 knots being the norm. :drool:
 
Unit74 said:
I've had my Archer since May and it is absolutely an awesome plane. Go anywhere, do anything I can ask of it. But, it will TAS out at 129. My family all live on the west coast, which translates to a two day event for us.

So I have have been looking for a single day airplane and initially, an A36 was on the short list. But, for what I want, plus the insurance on it and maint reserve, I can afford to buy it, but not fly it. I don't want a minimalist equipment plane, so I'm up in the $170k range.

So I started looking at Mooney 231s and found the Rockets...... My eyes went sideways and big toe started twitching. O......M.......G............... I want. A plane that will out pace an Acclaim for 25% of the cost. :yikes:

Anyone have one? My biggest turn on is I can be in SoCal in about 6 hours flight time according to FF.


What say the peanut gallery?
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How are the care and feeding of an A36 and a 231 Rocket with a TSIO-520 going to be different enough that one is affordable to operate, but the other is not?

Are you relying on the differences in acquisition costs or the reduced block times?
 
rbridges said:
speed is addictive to a lot of people. I used to get stoked about seeing 130 knots in the cherokee, now I'm bummed when I see it.
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Yeah, after getting the Mooney flying a 172 or similar was a bummer. What, 105 in cruise? Shoot, we beat that in cruise climb. (500fpm @120kts is a typical cruise climb for us)
 
James_Dean said:
How are the care and feeding of an A36 and a 231 Rocket with a TSIO-520 going to be different enough that one is affordable to operate, but the other is not?

Are you relying on the differences in acquisition costs or the reduced block times?
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Two more seats on insurance plus additional hull value and acquisition roughly $50k more is the main issue. Jacks me up a few hundred monthly before I even fire it up.

Then add in the 40kt faster cruise and burn rates the Rocket becomes more economical per mile.

To be honest, I'd rather have an A36. I just can't afford what I want.
 
Dav8or said:
Why not buy an older Bonanza and get closer to what you want??:dunno: Lots of people have done this.
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You can certainly buy a nicely equipped S-35 Bonanza for less than an Mooney Rocket, then you also have the 4 seat insurance and an option to install a 5th seat.
 
Unit74 said:
Two more seats on insurance plus additional hull value and acquisition roughly $50k more is the main issue. Jacks me up a few hundred monthly before I even fire it up.

Then add in the 40kt faster cruise and burn rates the Rocket becomes more economical per mile.

To be honest, I'd rather have an A36. I just can't afford what I want.
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I'd be surprised if your block times were significantly different on anything less than 300 miles. Don't forget you're feeding an entirely different beast with a TSIO-520.

Don't get me wrong.... It is a sexy plane, but I don't think you'll spend significiantly less per year on a rocket than an A36.
 
Bonanza did come equipped with a TC in the latest version of the V tail. Not many were built, I think. They cruise about 200kts, not as fast as the rocket. I think no matter what it's going to be a two hop trip. Need to stop around ABQ for gas depending on headwind going west.

That Rocket sounds like quite the machine. For fast long distance running it's ideal.
 
docmirror said:
Bonanza did come equipped with a TC in the latest version of the V tail. Not many were built, I think. They cruise about 200kts, not as fast as the rocket. I think no matter what it's going to be a two hop trip. Need to stop around ABQ for gas depending on headwind going west.

That Rocket sounds like quite the machine. For fast long distance running it's ideal.
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There are also Turbo Normalized 35 series Bonanzas done on STCs besides the V-35TC. I actually recommend them. You get the best efficiencies of both raised mechanical compression and raised altitude. My TN Travelair would walk away from a 55 Baron above 12,500'.

In fact, I went to San Diego to help a gentleman on this board buy a TN-S-35. It's a nice install that is still available through Tornado Alley Turbo and fully supported up to a new install. It's one of the few TN setups that has a fully compensated automatic wastegate.
 
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Henning said:
There are also Turbo Normalized 35 series Bonanzas done on STCs besides the V-35TC. I actually recommend them. You get the best efficiencies of both raised mechanical compression and raised altitude. My TN Travelair would walk away from a 55 Baron above 12,500'.

In fact, I went to San Diego to help a gentleman on this board buy a TN-S-35. It's a nice install that is still available through Tornado Alley Turbo and fully supported up to a new install. It's one of the few TN setups that has a fully compensated automatic wastegate.
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Yea, and there have been some SEXY ones over on BeechTalk - some downright affordable.
 
Say you don't want a Bo or to be an engneer on here and folks take it personally :goofy:
 
Henning said:
No, I think the Mooney Rocket is a heck of a plane. Not too sure what his budget is, this is the only decent one I see for under $160k and they still want $119.

http://www.controller.com/listingsd...NEY-M20K-231/1982-MOONEY-M20K-231/1317411.htm

Question, can you retrofit TKS on a Mooney?
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Yes, CAV will still install TKS on Mooneys in the aftermarket. Not cheap, but they'll do it.

The Rocket is a bargain in the market place these days... heckuva traveling machine, and not all that exotic. Rocket-specific parts are still available from Rocket Engineering. The powerplant is taken from a twin Cessna (can't remember which one...maybe the 340?) so it isn't all that exotic. It flies like a Mooney, just faster and heavier on the controls, especially in pitch with the extra weight up front.
 
What does the Bo have over a M20J?


FWIW..... I got a sample quote on a rocket for about $3200/yr insurance..... Ouch...a36 was about the same. M20J was $25-2800. That's a tough pill to swallow. She said once I pass 100 hours in type, it will drop. So I gotta spend $10k+ to get a discount on insurance.

Man I want that rocket performance, but I just don't see it in the cards. You guys have turns me on tO the M20j or K though. Other than the horsepower, any diff between the two?
 
I like the m20j but personally think of it as a two person airplane. 1 small kid would be fine. Just not enough room for much more imo.
 
Unit74 said:
What does the Bo have over a M20J?


FWIW..... I got a sample quote on a rocket for about $3200/yr insurance..... Ouch...a36 was about the same. M20J was $25-2800. That's a tough pill to swallow. She said once I pass 100 hours in type, it will drop. So I gotta spend $10k+ to get a discount on insurance.

Man I want that rocket performance, but I just don't see it in the cards. You guys have turns me on tO the M20j or K though. Other than the horsepower, any diff between the two?
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Comfort and control balance is the big thing I notice. The only Mooney I was comfortable in was retrofitted with Reccaro seats. I would get out of my Travelair and into my buddy's M-20D and it felt heavy. Outside of that I thought it was okay. Definitely less work to hand fly IFR. Also Mooneys are more claustrophobic due to the small windows, that's why people think they are so small when they really aren't. The big difference is sitting on the floor though.
 
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How about real world performance/maint/burn?
 
Unit74 said:
How about real world performance/maint/burn?
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In general or a 252? The 252 is fast at altitude, fast enough I wonder if you can't get into Vne trouble up high.:dunno: The TSIO 520 NB is the later 340 engine with 310hp, but the add for the 252s say 300, I wonder if they derated it or if it's inaccurate in the ad.:dunno:

I would think you should be able to maintain an efficient 210kt cruise at 17-18gph in the sub flight levels, maybe better.
 
No, the A36 was what I was looking at vs the M20J/K models.
 
Unit74 said:
No, the A36 was what I was looking at vs the M20J/K models.
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Not really comparable airplanes. The A36 is by far more capable and more comfortable if you plan on bringing anyone with you. I would much rather have an A36 over a M20J and I don't have a family.

I would also MUCH rather work on an A36.
 
Rare that I will fill more than 2 seats until this time next year. I have a baby on the way and the wife said they are grounded till he is one year old. But I do take my 4 and 6 year olds up. Matter of fact, my 4 year old begs to fly everyday. The 6 year old would rather play with dump trucks though. As a side note, my 4 year old sometimes preflight a mommy a van and tells hear to turn the lights on so he can walk around and check them. He then says, " flaps up!" Clear for take off!!!"
 
jesse said:
I like the m20j but personally think of it as a two person airplane. 1 small kid would be fine. Just not enough room for much more imo.
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With a J or later, it's not a question of room, it's a question of weight.
With full fuel and pilot will leave you about 400lbs,
 
jesse said:
I like the m20j but personally think of it as a two person airplane. 1 small kid would be fine. Just not enough room for much more imo.
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Balderdash!! Just more OWT. If you were speaking of the M20,ABCDE, I would totally agree with you. The J though, is plenty comfy in the back. It takes a bit of contortion to get back there, but once there it's really no different than a PA-28. Four adults sitting in an F,G,J,K is just fine and done all the time. The M20L and onward are even better. I will say that getting in and out of a Mooney is the downside, not the actual sitting in there. For younger, agile people, it is not an issue.
 
Dav8or said:
Balderdash!! Just more OWT. If you were speaking of the M20,ABCDE, I would totally agree with you. The J though, is plenty comfy in the back. It takes a bit of contortion to get back there, but once there it's really no different than a PA-28. Four adults sitting in an F,G,J,K is just fine and done all the time. The M20L and onward are even better. I will say that getting in and out of a Mooney is the downside, not the actual sitting in there. For younger, agile people, it is not an issue.
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Disagree with me if you want but it's not like I haven't flown the M20J and haven't been in the back of one. It's no Bonanza when it comes to passenger comfort and ability to haul.
 
jesse said:
Disagree with me if you want but it's not like I haven't flown the M20J and haven't been in the back of one. It's no Bonanza when it comes to passenger comfort and ability to haul.
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Who said anything about Bonanzas??! You said the back seat of a Mooney M20J was only suitable for children. You are wrong on that point.
 
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