Failed instrument checkride today.

Palmpilot said:
Unless you're coming from the north, it would be more efficient to get vectors to the IAF at LAHAB or PDZ, or just fly an airway to one of them.
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I was talking about doing this purely /U because I have no GPS in my plane, and that's why I indicated doing this as a VOR approach. Without a GPS, that's not an option.
 
stratobee said:
I mentioned that my VOR approach into Bracket (KPOC) was the beginning of the end as I was late and not set up properly for the VOR radials. Late coming off GPS, basically. I still am a little fuzzy on how long into a VOR, LOC or ILS approach I can have guidance from GPS.
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You can have GPS guidance all the way through as long as you also have guidance from the VOR/LOC laterally and GS vertically visible in the pilot's primary field of view on the final segment.

For example, if you're flying a VOR approach in a G1000 airplane, you can load the approach in the GPS and leave the CDI in GPS mode all the way as long as you have one of your VOR's tuned to the VOR providing lateral guidance on the final segment and one of your RMI needles on the HSI/RMI display on the PFD is being driven by that VOR, although that will require you to ignore the warnings the G1000 will give you about having the wrong setting on the CDI button. Likewise, in my Tiger, I can load the ILS approach in my GNS530 and have the CDI selector on GPS so the GPS is driving my #1 CDI as long as I also have the ILS tuned in my #2 Narco Nav 122 which includes LOC and GS (although I'll have to fight the 530's programmed auto-switch to VLOC mode and the resulting MSG's all the way down).

That said, I don't recommend doing this. I teach, and fly myself, switching the CDI from GPS to VLOC approach the FAF. However, I also switch back to GPS during the 5T's following the power-pitch-flaps-gear for the missed approach.
 
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PPC1052 said:
I was talking about doing this purely /U because I have no GPS in my plane, and that's why I indicated doing this as a VOR approach. Without a GPS, that's not an option.
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What is it that you think you need a GPS for on this approach? You certainly don't need one to fly the victor airways that lead to LAHAB or PDZ. (You also wouldn't need one to accept vectors to the approach course.)
 
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So let's see, in a /A aircraft using LAHAB (approaching from the West) as an IAF:

You are going to be on V16 using LAX on Nav1, Nav2 on SLI to identify LAHAB.

Then quickly switch Nav1 to PDZ just at LAHAB

Then switch Nav2 to SLI 043 to identify PRADO

Then switch Nav1 at PRADO to POM 344 for the inbound

Then switch Nav2 to PDZ to identify GOLDI

Then at GOLDI switch Nav2 to R256 for the missed

After all that tuning and twisting, you get a crap 800' circling approach at 90 degrees to the runway.

Single pilot, hand flying, in real IMC, LOTS of opportunity for screwups.

I prefer proc>approaches>RNAV26L>PDZ IAF>Activate>Enter

I might even have time to read the front page of the paper.:)
 
dtuuri said:
I think it should be. See Order 8260.19F, page 200, i.(1).

dtuuri
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side note: that link takes you to the FAA page to download (presumably) an original copy of the document, why is the quality so poor? It's obviously a copy of a copy that was scanned on B&W equipment.
 
Palmpilot said:
What is it that you think you need a GPS for on this approach? You certainly don't need one to fly the victor airways that lead to LAHAB or PDZ. (You also wouldn't need one to accept vectors to the approach course.)
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I looked at the enroute low chart, and see it now.
 
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Jaybird180 said:
side note: that link takes you to the FAA page to download (presumably) an original copy of the document, why is the quality so poor? It's obviously a copy of a copy that was scanned on B&W equipment.
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It opens a PDF file for me. What's poor about the quality? See:
i. Intermediate Segments.
(1) When a procedure turn or holding pattern entry is authorized at the FAF and a straight-in intermediate segment (without initial) is also authorized, data on the intermediate segment must be included in the Terminal Routes block. In this situation, add (IF) and (NoPT) to the intermediate segment.​

:D

dtuuri
 
Alexb2000 said:
So let's see, in a /A aircraft using LAHAB (approaching from the West) as an IAF:



Then switch Nav2 to SLI 043 to identify PRADO

Then switch Nav1 at PRADO to POM 344 for the inbound
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Why not just switch Nav 2 to POM 344 to identify PRADO, and turn on course, following it in?
 
PPC1052 said:
Why not just switch Nav 2 to POM 344 to identify PRADO, and turn on course, following it in?
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You could certainly do that. I like to keep Nav1 on the final approach course and use Nav2 to identify distances. Many aircraft only have a glideslope on the Nav1 head, so procedurally it keeps me consistent for a precision approach. Also I find making things like that a habit helps keep me from getting confused or losing situational awareness.
 
Alexb2000 said:
You could certainly do that. I like to keep Nav1 on the final approach course and use Nav2 to identify distances. Many aircraft only have a glideslope on the Nav1 head, so procedurally it keeps me consistent for a precision approach. Also I find making things like that a habit helps keep me from getting confused or losing situational awareness.
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I agree with you about this point, and I like to do that as well. I guess you could switch up the order of the radios you are using soon enough such that you are using Nav1 to identify PRADO, and then follow that in. My only point was you could skip the hassle of using SLI to identify the intersection and then having to switch to yet another station to navigate the inbound course. POM 344 can be used to both identify the intersection and navigate the inbound course.
 
Looks like it would be a fun approach to do with only one NAV radio.
 
Ron Levy said:
... PIC and I both strongly encourage trainees to get good training on the unit (such as this course) before starting the 10-day course. ...
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Ron, can you elaborate a little bit on what this course offers beyond using the Garmin 430 simulator with the manual? Thanks!
 
register@teamandras.com said:
Ron, can you elaborate a little bit on what this course offers beyond using the Garmin 430 simulator with the manual? Thanks!
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Real training. It walks you through both theory and practice, with demonstrations and interactive testing of your skills in a step-by-step learning program. The simulator offers nothing but accurate responses to inputs, and the manual offers only reference material, not actual training. The courseware I recommended is a real, interactive, computer-based training system. You may certainly find the GNS430 manual a useful reference while doing the course, and you may find it worthwhile to practice what you learned on the simulator. However, if you want actual training, you want something like the course I recommended.
 
Ron Levy said:
Real training. It walks you through both theory and practice, with demonstrations and interactive testing of your skills in a step-by-step learning program. The simulator offers nothing but accurate responses to inputs, and the manual offers only reference material, not actual training. The courseware I recommended is a real, interactive, computer-based training system. You may certainly find the GNS430 manual a useful reference while doing the course, and you may find it worthwhile to practice what you learned on the simulator. However, if you want actual training, you want something like the course I recommended.
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Thanks. I am now $100 poorer. :)
 
Glad to say I can finally file! Re-test went well today..:thumbsup:

It's been a long journey and a long time coming. Hope I don't mess it up in actual by myself when that time comes. But until then - a beer is in place! Don't want to see an approach plate again for a few days!:yesnod::smilewinkgrin:
 
stratobee said:
Glad to say I can finally file! Re-test went well today..:thumbsup:

It's been a long journey and a long time coming. Hope I don't mess it up in actual by myself when that time comes. But until then - a beer is in place! Don't want to see an approach plate again for a few days!:yesnod::smilewinkgrin:
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Second time is often the charm! Congrats!
 
Congratulations! Go get the ticket wet on a day with MVFR weather (or better) and you'll start to build confidence in actual without an instructor on board (but still have plenty of clear sky below you and above the ground). Or, at least, that's what I've been doing since May and it seems to be helping.
 
Good deal, thing is there is a lot f IMC you still want to avoid even though you have the rating and a very capable, strong, aircraft. Anything that reaches up, stay out of lol. SoCal/NorCal the IR is very usable, cross the mountains to the east and not so, not until at least the other side of the Rockies. The clouds that come up over the desert, monsters live in those clouds that can pummel you from the sky. I don't even want to think about Mountain IFR, it's never nice or safe unless you can clear the mountains at SE altitude, which you should be capable of if you watch your weight.carefully. Light/Medium piston twin safety and performance lies in minimizing weight. If you leave 500lbs useful load unloaded your climb and SE ceiling really improve, and that means a lot in mountain IFR operations. Again, not something I would chose to do lightly. East of the Rockies I give the IR utility to fly IFR/IMC in about two thirds of the weather with a known ice plane, one third if you don't have de ice gear. The other third is convective T-Storms up to and including hail, tornadoes, and severe up and down microbursts that can ruin your day. Better to stay on top IFR in VMC and drive around the towers on their windward side. Either that or stay below where you can see the dark and the light, the contrast of roiling black clouds still building energy, or the whispy grey ones that have already depleted theirs. I saw what happened to the NOAA T-28 when the guy came back out of the Supercell he flew into to collect data. :hairraise: That plane left on a trailer.
 
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CONGRATS!!

Practice Approches each month to stay sharp.
 
Congrats. Did you use same DPE? Mine cannot give a ride for a month, and he is interfering with DPEs I'm trying to get lined up.
 
If you have proof if interference, report him to the FSDO. But be certain that it is indisputable evidence.
 
Jaybird180 said:
If you have proof if interference, report him to the FSDO. But be certain that it is indisputable evidence.
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I won't as it won't accomplish anything other than animosity and will only tarnish me. I'm not that type of person. I suspect it was probably innocent.
 
asgcpa said:
Congrats. Did you use same DPE? Mine cannot give a ride for a month, and he is interfering with DPEs I'm trying to get lined up.
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asgcpa said:
I won't as it won't accomplish anything other than animosity and will only tarnish me. I'm not that type of person. I suspect it was probably innocent.
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See your above. Once is innocent. More than once is intentional.
 
Henning said:
Good deal, thing is there is a lot f IMC you still want to avoid even though you have the rating and a very capable, strong, aircraft. Anything that reaches up, stay out of lol. SoCal/NorCal the IR is very usable, cross the mountains to the east and not so, not until at least the other side of the Rockies. The clouds that come up over the desert, monsters live in those clouds that can pummel you from the sky. I don't even want to think about Mountain IFR, it's never nice or safe unless you can clear the mountains at SE altitude, which you should be capable of if you watch your weight.carefully. Light/Medium piston twin safety and performance lies in minimizing weight. If you leave 500lbs useful load unloaded your climb and SE ceiling really improve, and that means a lot in mountain IFR operations. Again, not something I would chose to do lightly. East of the Rockies I give the IR utility to fly IFR/IMC in about two thirds of the weather with a known ice plane, one third if you don't have de ice gear. The other third is convective T-Storms up to and including hail, tornadoes, and severe up and down microbursts that can ruin your day. Better to stay on top IFR in VMC and drive around the towers on their windward side. Either that or stay below where you can see the dark and the light, the contrast of roiling black clouds still building energy, or the whispy grey ones that have already depleted theirs. I saw what happened to the NOAA T-28 when the guy came back out of the Supercell he flew into to collect data. :hairraise: That plane left on a trailer.
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I'm going to ease into it. Here in California it's not so easy to get into the real bad stuff (except for the odd afternoon desert thunderstorm) during the summer.
 
stratobee said:
Glad to say I can finally file! Re-test went well today..:thumbsup:

It's been a long journey and a long time coming. Hope I don't mess it up in actual by myself when that time comes. But until then - a beer is in place! Don't want to see an approach plate again for a few days!:yesnod::smilewinkgrin:
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Congratulations and welcome to the League of Temporary Airmen! :cheers: Taking a rest is good, you've earned it. But after that, get the ticket wet and file often. Instrument skills are among the most perishable.
 
Well done!
Had a very similar IR checkride at almost the same date in LA...
Set off in the rental C172 from the flight school and unfortunately the database was current on the KL-whatever I had barely figured out. The DPE wanted me to use the gps, when I barely had any idea how to use it, having opted to do an old school IR training using VORs. My plane which is in Europe and on the way over to the US next month has a garmin 530/430 stack I sort of understand, which meant I didn't really study sufficiently how to use the ancient gps in the training c172... It meant some stuff was a little rough on the checkride... I did manage to pass the checkride but it involved some embarrassing moments.
 
Congrats on that Cannes!:thumbsup: I know how hard you've worked for it.

Done quite a few IR trips by now, but nothing in bad weather. Just no weather around here in California. Might be going to Tennessee next week for a wedding, so hopefully I can get the wings into some clouds then.

The trips I've done have all been very straightforward. The odd re-routing or change of approach etc. The only thing that's bugged me is how long it sometimes takes to get a release in busy SoCal space. Last week I was sitting for 10 minutes in sweltering heat waiting for it. I almost cancelled. Also, my home airport has a DP that unless you're going east, takes you in the wrong direction for 20 miles to the VOR. Normally they get you turned around with vectors before that, but it's a good 5-10 minute diversion most of the times. Maybe I'd be better off picking it up in the air and departing VFR, but as the freq are so busy in LA, I'm kind of a little afraid of taking up their time.
 
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