When at an uncontrolled field

AuntPeggy

AuntPeggy

Final Approach
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Do you announce the crosswind leg?
Do you announce the upwind leg?
Do you announce intentions (landing or stay in pattern) on each announcement?

I usually only announce the downwind, base, and final. I announce intentions on downwind. While we were flying out west, it seemed every leg is announced along with intentions. I think that using so much airtime around here on a busy day is unwarranted.

There didn't seen to be as much concern about congestion on the airwaves out west. Sometimes it seemed as though the pilot wanted to tell their life story as they approached the field.
 
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A lot depends upon whether there is time to make the announcement; if you are in an area where the airtime is readily-available, why not? There is nothing at all wrong with letting everyone know what you are aup to, and it could help at just the right time.

On the other hand, on a pretty summer day in, say, north Texas, it seems as if every strip is on the same CTAF frequency, and pilots have to be judicious in the use of self-announcing, or the airwaves become a squealing jumble of conflicting signams.
 
AuntPeggy said:
I usually only announce the downwind, base, and final. I announce intentions on downwind. While we were flying out west, it seemed every leg is announced along with intentions. I think that using so much airtime around here on a busy day is unwarranted.
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I agree with that. I don't much care for tail numbers either except where there is more than one Cessna, Piper or whatever in the pattern. I always say what direction traffic I'm making since I frequent fly opposite traffic to stay away from the fixed-wings. Also, if my landing spot is not on a runway, I'll describe where I intend to land, e.g. helipad on the north side...

None of which seems to matter though. I can't begin to count the number of times when I've been on (what for me is) short final and had an airplane pull out in front of me onto the runway. In spite of my having announced... So the moral is, fixed-wingers, when you hear that there's a helicopter in the pattern, look up, not just where you expect airplanes to be, but higher where flingwingers come in :D
 
If I'm making several circuits, I'll announce upwind, just so people know when I'm off the runway. I do keep my announcements quick, say, "Eagle Lake Traffic, Cessna 75897 is on left <leg>, runway 17, stop and go, Eagle Lake". If I'm departing a nontowered airport, I don't announce upwind after announcing departure.
 
At KGVL, we have a few jets a day come through and several based there. So, it's good to make yourself known pretty often. Faster traffic is usually pretty good about announcing themself at least five miles out when VMC and at least ten miles on marginal days even when still with TRACON.

So, it's very much to one's advantage to announce position some five miles out then just prior to entering downwind and upon establishing downwind followed by base and final. On top of that, using the model of aircraft helps such as saying Skyhawk, Skylane, Sundowner or Mooney. Saying the tail number alone is useless other than knowing you're out there. I may see two aircraft and I'd like to know if you're the one who is behind me or just entered the pattern on base in front of me.
 
Not much I can add; depends on traffic. Certainly pattern entry. I also try to announce final even if it's busy. Turning off the active if someone is behind me coming in. Many times I'm faster than pattern traffic and try to coordinate who I'll go in behind if there's a conga line <g>

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Turning off the active if someone is behind me coming in.
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That's important for traffic taking off, too. At airports like 44N Sky Acres, the first 1/3 of runway 35 is pretty level and the second 2/3 is downhill. A pilot on the ground at the numbers can't see if a plane has turned off the runway or not.

-Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
That's important for traffic taking off, too. At airports like 44N Sky Acres, the first 1/3 of runway 35 is pretty level and the second 2/3 is downhill. A pilot on the ground at the numbers can't see if a plane has turned off the runway or not.

-Skip
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Great point. It doesn't take much of a hump along a 5,000 foot runway in order to hide an aircraft ten to twenty feet tall.
 
It depends. If have no radio, I make no announcements since I've found that no matter how loud I yell, no one will hear me. ;)

When I have a radio typically if I hear no one else announcing on the freq, I'll announce downwind and base for the benefit of those who might be taxiing or approaching the area. If others are also in the pattern and announcing or approaching the airport and announcing, I'll add more position calls as needed to keep everyone up to date on where I am and where they are.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
It depends. If have no radio, I make no announcements since I've found that no matter how loud I yell, no one will hear me. ;)

When I have a radio typically if I hear no one else announcing on the freq, I'll announce downwind and base for the benefit of those who might be taxiing or approaching the area. If others are also in the pattern and announcing or approaching the airport and announcing, I'll add more position calls as needed to keep everyone up to date on where I am and where they are.
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First, I think a handheld is a good investment as well as a cheap one to consider for safety's sake.

Next, so if no one else calls it makes no sense for you to call either? It seems to me a standard needs to start somewhere. Of course, that's why the various standards and practices were established in the AIM and other FAA sanctioned resources.
 
KennyFlys said:
Next, so if no one else calls it makes no sense for you to call either? It seems to me a standard needs to start somewhere.
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I would think that it would be a good idea to make announcements, even (or especially) if you don't hear anyone else on frequency... otherwise you could potentially have a bunch of planes flying around, not announcing just because nobody else is...
 
KennyFlys said:
Next, so if no one else calls it makes no sense for you to call either? It seems to me a standard needs to start somewhere. Of course, that's why the various standards and practices were established in the AIM and other FAA sanctioned resources.
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That's not what he said. The case he was talking about is when he's NORDO. We have a few of those here, including a gyroplane.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Do you announce the crosswind leg?
Do you announce the upwind leg?
Do you announce intentions (landing or stay in pattern) on each announcement?

I usually only announce the downwind, base, and final. I announce intentions on downwind. While we were flying out west, it seemed every leg is announced along with intentions. I think that using so much airtime around here on a busy day is unwarranted.

There didn't seen to be as much concern about congestion on the airwaves out west. Sometimes it seemed as though the pilot wanted to tell their life story as they approached the field.
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I buy a facilities directory and follow the instruction/information/frequencies in there.

Plus the flight guide and know the reporting points, and the frequencies given in there also.

Oh and last but not least, an up to date sectional.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
That's not what he said. The case he was talking about is when he's NORDO. We have a few of those here, including a gyroplane.
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I addressed that part. Your quote speaks to his second paragraph where he gave the impression he limited his position reports when he does have a radio.
 
KennyFlys said:
I addressed that part. Your quote speaks to his second paragraph where he gave the impression he limited his position reports when he does have a radio.
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He said that if he doesn't hear any calls, he announces downwind and base. I fail to see your point -- what's wrong with making those calls?
 
Not too much more to add. But if the pattern is not very full I will not announce crosswind unless there are planes joining the pattern.

The only real thing to add is when you make an announcement actually be where you say you are.

The other day I was turning downwind for runway 26 at 3CK. There was a Cirrus on a 2 mile final as he was shooting the VOR 26 approach. A third plane then announced 3 miles EAST turn downwind for 26. That is a heck of a long downwind leg!

I soon could see the Cirrus but not the third plane, he had just then announced turning base. I asked where exactly he was on base and he came back with 2 miles north of the field and was going to overfly at 2500!

WTF! he had no clue where he was until he saw the airport out his window. This was not a student BTW it was a high performance single, so I would hazard a guess that the pilot was more than just a few months post solo. When he did land he was single pilot. I can only assume that he made his calls based on erroneous situational awareness. But at least we were all talking and figured it out.
 
For me it goes:
XXX, Crosswind, RW XX
XXX, Downwind, RW XX
XXX, Base, (Full Stop/T&G), RW XX
XXX, Final, (Full stop/T&G), RW XX

No upwind call. In havasu, calling upwind is as popular as ATITAPA.
 
I'm with Spike -- do what seems best given the activity in the pattern and frequency congestion. And keep your eyes open and your head on a swivel no matter what you hear (or don't hear) on the radio.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
He said that if he doesn't hear any calls, he announces downwind and base. I fail to see your point -- what's wrong with making those calls?
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Standards and practices are usually created based on experience with previous occurences. They aren't done for the sake of doing them.

I cite the AIM as the prime source (emphasis added in bold italics).

AIM 4-1-9
a. Airport Operations Without Operating Control Tower​

1. There is no substitute for alertness while in the vicinity of an airport. It is essential that pilots be alert and look for other traffic and exchange traffic information when approaching or departing an airport without an operating control tower. This is of particular importance since other aircraft may not have communication capability or, in some cases, pilots may not communicate their presence or intentions when operating into or out of such airports. To achieve the greatest degree of safety, it is essential that all radio-equipped aircraft transmit/receive on a common frequency identified for the purpose of airport advisories.​

2. An airport may have a full or part-time tower or FSS located on the airport, a full or part-time UNICOM station or no aeronautical station at all. There are three ways for pilots to communicate their intention and obtain airport/traffic information when operating at an airport that does not have an operating tower: by communicating with an FSS, a UNICOM operator, or by making a self-announce broadcast.​

3. Many airports are now providing completely automated weather, radio check capability and airport advisory information on an automated UNICOM system. These systems offer a variety of features, typically selectable by microphone clicks, on the UNICOM frequency. Availability of the automated UNICOM will be published in the Airport/Facility Directory and approach charts.​

b. Communicating on a Common Frequency​

1. The key to communicating at an airport without an operating control tower is selection of the correct common frequency. The acronym CTAF which stands for Common Traffic Advisory Frequency, is synonymous with this program. A CTAF is a frequency designated for the purpose of carrying out airport advisory practices while operating to or from an airport without an operating control tower. The CTAF may be a UNICOM, MULTICOM, FSS, or tower frequency and is identified in appropriate aeronautical publications.​

2. The CTAF frequency for a particular airport is contained in the A/FD, Alaska Supplement, Alaska Terminal Publication, Instrument Approach Procedure Charts, and Instrument Departure Procedure (DP) Charts. Also, the CTAF frequency can be obtained by contacting any FSS. Use of the appropriate CTAF, combined with a visual alertness and application of the following recommended good operating practices, will enhance safety of flight into and out of all uncontrolled airports.
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Table 4-1-1(Added only applicable row from within the above section):​
Facility at Airport: UNICOM (No Tower or FSS)


Frequency Use: Communicate with UNICOM station on published CTAF frequency (122.7; 122.8; 122.725; 122.975; or 123.0). If unable to contact UNICOM station, use self-announce procedures on CTAF. ​


Outbound: Before taxiing and before taxiing on the runway for departure. ​


Inbound: 10 miles out. Entering downwind, base, and final. Leaving the runway. ​


Practice Instrument Approach: None Listed​
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Continued in next subsection:​
c. Recommended Traffic Advisory Practices​

1. Pilots of inbound traffic should monitor and communicate as appropriate on the designated CTAF from 10 miles to landing. Pilots of departing aircraft should monitor/communicate on the appropriate frequency from start-up, during taxi, and until 10 miles from the airport unless the CFRs or local procedures require otherwise.​

2. Pilots of aircraft conducting other than arriving or departing operations at altitudes normally used by arriving and departing aircraft should monitor/communicate on the appropriate frequency while within 10 miles of the airport unless required to do otherwise by the CFRs or local procedures. Such operations include parachute jumping/dropping, en route, practicing maneuvers, etc.​
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​

These procedures are indisputable. There is no argument for not following them. There are limited circumstances for not doing so such as numerous stations on the same CTAF. But, that should not be an excuse for not attempting every call.​
 
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KennyFlys said:
First, I think a handheld is a good investment as well as a cheap one to consider for safety's sake.
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If you'd like to buy a handheld for me I'll take it but I don't really think they're critical enough to safety to buy one myself. Now if there were a way to make sure every single plane in the air was equipped with a radio and none of those radios ever broke and the only way the airplane would be able to slow down enough to land is if the pilot used the radio, then I would say having a radio is critical to safety and traffic avoidance.

But as it is the radio will only tell you about other airplanes which have working radios and pilots who know how to use them. IMO that means the radio is nothing more than a supplimental tool as far as traffic avoidance at uncontrolled fields goes. My eyes are my primary traffic avoidance tool.

I ride with other pilots sometimes and as we approach an uncontrolled field I'll ask them to describe the traffic picture to me. They'll tell me about the guy who just called downwind and the guy who just called 10 miles out. So I'll ask if that means there's one plane in the pattern and one other plane approaching the airport and they'll usually say yes. Unless they use the phrase 'this is the traffic I know about' or something similar I know that they are using the radio as their primary traffic avoidance tool and their eyes are secondary. They hear a plane call downwind, they see a plane in the downwind and they stop looking. That IMO is far more dangerous than going NORDO. When you fly NORDO, you never stop looking and at least for me, that carries over to when I do have a radio.

Now that being said, I don't know where you got the idea that I don't use a radio when I have one. Nothing in my post suggested that was the case.
 
Joe Gremlin said:
Now that being said, I don't know where you got the idea that I don't use a radio when I have one. Nothing in my post suggested that was the case.
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A couple hundred bucks is a cheap price for a handheld.

As far as your impression...
I'll add more position calls as needed to keep everyone up to date on where I am and where they are.
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As opposed to at every point as recommended by the AIM.

On another note, I forgot to add this earlier:
g. Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions


1. General.Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.
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That phrase has been a nitpick of many on this board.
​
 
Joe Gremlin said:
I guess I'm just a danger to everyone around me then. :rolleyes:
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I never said that and I truly don't believe that. I'm just speaking out in favor of making every position report possible. When it comes to the concept of "see and be seen" it's a lot easier done when others hear that you're out there.
 
Around here we follow the AIM for inbound.

For outbound, we don't call ground operations until we're ready to take the runway. We also call departing the pattern, which isn't mentioned in the AIM.
 
gprellwitz said:
Around here we follow the AIM for inbound.

For outbound, we don't call ground operations until we're ready to take the runway. We also call departing the pattern, which isn't mentioned in the AIM.
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But just down the road from you at Lewis we do call for ground ops like crossing the runways when taxiing.

I also do call when I am back taxiing at my home airport and others where I have to get on the runway to get to the end.
 
I treat it like a railroad crossing: Look and Listen (I can't stop, since I'm not in a whirlybird like Bob). I make sure I'm on freq within maybe 10miles (if I'm on with Approach or Center I monitor the freq) so I know what's going on there. If it's busy, with approaches and departures, I'll announce every leg. Usually though, I'll let people know I'm on downwind and final. If someone pipes up in the interim, I let them know what I'm doing.

I don't respond to "any traffic please advise." I figure out where they are and plan accordingly, or I'll tell them "buy low, sell high." :D
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm with Spike -- do what seems best given the activity in the pattern and frequency congestion. And keep your eyes open and your head on a swivel no matter what you hear (or don't hear) on the radio.
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Me too. You're an "it depends" person after all! :)
 
smigaldi said:
But just down the road from you at Lewis we do call for ground ops like crossing the runways when taxiing.

I also do call when I am back taxiing at my home airport and others where I have to get on the runway to get to the end.
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Crossing a runway and back-taxiing I FULLY concur with. At 1C5, however, we don't have either of those. When I'm at other uncontrolled fields where they apply, then YES!
 
Typically I'll announce "turning downwind", and the same for base and final, stating my intentions only on the call when I'm turning final. I figure that it doesn't much matter whether I'm planning a T&G or full stop when I'm on downwind.
 
lancefisher said:
... stating my intentions only on the call when I'm turning final. I figure that it doesn't much matter whether I'm planning a T&G or full stop when I'm on downwind.
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That makes sense. I got into the habit of stating intentions on downwind from doing the same at towered airports where the only call is usually on downwind if staying in the pattern.

On the other hand, if I'm doing a T&G, the plane behind me doesn't need to leave quite so much room between us and can make that adjustment earlier if he is informed of my intentions before turning base.
 
AuntPeggy said:
On the other hand, if I'm doing a T&G, the plane behind me doesn't need to leave quite so much room between us and can make that adjustment earlier if he is informed of my intentions before turning base.
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Personally I'd just as soon have the plane behind me leave enough space that he won't run me over if I have a problem with the T&G that turns it into a longer touch without any go. In addition, if I announce what I plan to do on the runway as I'm making the turn from base to final I don't expect that the plane behind me is already on base and that plane should be able to adjust the spacing by changing the point he turns base. If he's on base when I'm turning final I think he's already too close.
 
My calls :

10 miles out with intentions...
45 degree call
Left downwind
Midfield, Left downwind
Left Base
Final
 
I just call downwind and/or final (if I'm straight in), I use my make an last two digits on my tailnumber.

If I hear someone else chirp on my freq I'll call my current position.

Not rocket surgery, see and be seen, also a few people I've seen in the patten have a hard time with distance estimates or correct traffic patterns.
 
The answers to your questions will be found in Advisory Circular 90-42F, "Traffic Advisory Services at Airports Without Operating Control Towers." You can find it by going to www.faa.gov and clicking on Advisory Circulars on the home page.

Bob Gardner
 
Thanks, Bob. I couldn't find AC 90-42F on the link you provided. I was, however able to find it from your description. http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/ac90-42F.pdf. It doesn't really address whether it is necessary or expected to repead intentions, such as touch-and-go on each leg of the pattern. It simply says to report intentions from 10 miles out, then report each leg: downwind, base, and final.
 
Since at an uncontrolled airfield you can, and most likely will, have aircraft that don't even have a radio legally, then logic says that any self announcement or position report is simply gravy. Of course, not a bad idea, but certainly not mandatory, regulated or required.
 
If I am approaching the airport from the upwind side, I usually fly an upwind so I can look over the airport before I turn a crosswind. When I am doing this, I do announce the upwind because I don't want departing traffic making a right turn (left pattern) into me. As long as the frequency isn't too busy, letting people know where you are just makes sense, at least to me.
 
At my home field I'll only report crosswind if there is another guy waiting to takeoff.

I normally listen to my dest CTAF from a good distance away to get the flow of the traffic. Sometimes I'll call up the local Unicom and ask who's around. Largely it depends on airport, especially during fire season.
 
I absolutely announce each leg and my intentions(touch and go, full stop, etc...) as well as back-taxiing, clear of the runway, taking it for departure, etc....

I'd want other pilots to do the same... unfortunately some don't... some of the ****-poor radio work I hear(or lack of it) really irritates me. NORDO is one thing but if you have a radio, sheesh... use it!
 
For inbound traffic, ground personnel also appreciate knowing you intentions well enough to know whether or not we need to be on the ramp with a pair of chocks to park you. We would like to know if you intend a T&G of full stop with taxiback for take off instead of taxiing to ramp parking.
 
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