FBO Manager Here - Seeking Advice from Pilots

I agree here. I don't see the benefit of setting the parking brake. A good set of chocks & chains is much better. I always assume there is a chance someone will need to move the plane. While I'd certainly prefer they don't, I can understand why they might need to.

Exactly. I don't leave my parking brake on at an FBO. You never know if they're going to need to move it, or if you want to have them move it when that huge thunderstorm with watermelon size hail is coming.


I've worked line service at an FBO. People will say they want excellent customer service, clean bathrooms, a crew car etc.... but those things come with expense. And people are cheap, they don't like paying for the services they want. Where I worked we had crew cars that were always used and abused but we bought the cheapest ones brand new with a warranty and keep them about 10 years then sell them for peanuts. Bathrooms can be kept clean with no extra expense, do that.. especially the ladies. Have hangars available... I never overnight without knowing if there is a hangar available in need-be. Many times I stick it inside 'just in case'. Again though, people are cheap and want their hangars for nothing. I saw someone mention contract fuel like Colt, UVAir, etc... yeah that's good to have for JET customers. You'll lose your @$$ if you let customers take 50, 100 gallons and use those cards... gotta have a minimum like 250 gallons or else there's a huge fee... I promise you'll lose money on those if you're not careful.

Things I absolutely love and will pay for in an FBO... Line service people who are courteous, professional and knowledgable. I don't watch people fuel my airplane as a general rule because I usually go places with branded fuel that have mandatory training. I love it. I love being marshalled in and getting my rental car then leaving. Somewhere my airplane goes and is back fueled the next morning like magic. That I pay extra for. I'll go to Cutter or Atlantic or MillionAir because I know I'll get good service.
 
Wow, I am shocked to hear of such instances of line personnel moving planes and fueling them without permission and the "sue us" line just amazes me. I have definitely never touched a plane without calling anyone and seeing the comments directly from pilots on here, I will stress that even more to my employees. Greeting people is a huge thing we stress here and I try to be out there right as the engine stops to throw a set of chocks under the tires and then ask what I can do to help. I will definitely make my project tomorrow to more clearly post hotel and restaurant information and get some menus from the places that pilots have frequented, for example. Such incredible advice that you are all posting, I am so glad that I posted to this site; such a welcoming community!

See the plane in the bottom of this post? You ever have it on your line and there's a storm coming, feel free to stick it in a hangar, I'll even pay you.
 
Yeah perhaps taking a credit card number will be a solution to prevent such abuse. When their money is directly on the line, that might indeed discourage the abusers. In regards to having a "beater", does that make the FBO look too cheap or unprofessional at all? For busy airports with maybe two FBOs at an airport I am sure the cars are nice, but would you arriving to a small airport and seeing a beater being pulled up to you discourage you in any way or maybe compel you to write a negative review? Or does the benefit of having a car outweigh the appearance of the car?

Availability of car beats condition. Yes, people will rave about a BMW or Caddilac, but at your field that is not necessary.

The new FBO in Sioux Falls has a deal where they lend out one of the Enterprise rentals as crew car. If you need it for an hour to run into town, it is free. If you need it overnight they make it a rental. They are competing with Landmark on the field, in your case, a decommissioned police cruiser or other city vehicle will be sufficient. People don't mind them turning into beaters.
 
1) Fix your parking brake.

Works just fine, thanks. But it's a Cessna, and if the plane was getting jostled around a bunch on a windy day, I don't know that I'd trust the lever to not pop free.

My only point in continuing the discussion was to illustrate to the FBO owner pilots have widely varying opinions and approaches on this.
 
In regards to having a "beater", does that make the FBO look too cheap or unprofessional at all?

Well, here's the thing. I hop out of my 57 year old plane, in khakis, and a polo shirt, maybe an old coat or a tee shirt and flip flops depending on weather. I'm not going to give the keynote speech at the RNC convention. I'm gonna go to a motel, get a dinner and come back, maybe watch a movie.

If a guy needs class ground transport, they can arrange for a cab, rental to be left, towncar with driver, helicopter, or jetpack.

IMO, a beater doesn't mean unsafe. The brakes, lights, horn, and trans need to work more or less as designed. No radio, no AC is livable. I would expect a suitable heater in ND, and good tires, but a beater in terms of bodywork, and paint, maybe some damage to the int. Also, as you've seen it shouldn't be dirty. Another element of the deposit deal, if it comes back filthy, you charge accordingly.

Oh, and if ANYONE smokes in it, instant $10,000 fee. ;)
 
Last edited:
In regards to having a "beater", does that make the FBO look too cheap or unprofessional at all? For busy airports with maybe two FBOs at an airport I am sure the cars are nice, but would you arriving to a small airport and seeing a beater being pulled up to you discourage you in any way or maybe compel you to write a negative review? Or does the benefit of having a car outweigh the appearance of the car?
The benefit of the car definitely outweighs the appearance. No one expects a spiffy new car at a small town FBO. That said, it needs to be mechanically sound enough.
 
In regards to having a "beater", does that make the FBO look too cheap or unprofessional at all?


As others have written, reasonably clean and safe. While the old police cruiser sounds good, the parts, likes brakes and shocks, on those tend to be expensive. I'd go with anything basic that has 4 doors, passes a basic mechanical inspection, doesn't smell bad, and fits your budget.
 
Hello All, I am a new FBO Manager and also new to this site. I was just curious what sort of expectations pilots have when arriving to small FBOs like mine in Jamestown, North Dakota.

Self service fuel, decent price.

Internet and/or wifi. That way I can use weather sources I am familiar with, and check email.

Soda machine with soda in bottles, not cans, so I can recap and sip as I fly.
 
Courtesy car is the most important. I flew to an fbo that I won't name because they were close to my destination. I always buy fuel when I want to borrow a car. The fbo had a strict one hour limit. I expected to be maybe a couple of hours and ask if that would be ok. I was told no. I rented a car which required me to wait to be picked up, driven to the rental place, etc. had the car for 1.5 hours paid close to 100.00 (I know I could have done better but I didn't have time to worry about a few bucks)

Next time I went to the same city I went to the main airport. Happily paid signatures fuel prices, borrowed a car, spent less time even though it was further from my destination, etc. I know some don't care for signature because of the pricing. They treat me very well (for all they know I also fly a citation x and they want to be sure i always use them).

Interestingly I am going to a small town in the same state. New fbo, communicated with them, offered to pay for a car, etc. I figured being small they might not want to part with the car for a few hours. Could not have been nicer, said no problem on the car.

I am always happy to pay more for fuel for the use of a car. Also would be happy to pay a fee for the car.

An extra buck for fuel for great service is not a concern for me. If I was only dropping in for fuel on a long cc, then a good deal on fuel might be a higher priority.

1. Car
2. Nice clean facilities
3. Friendly staff
4. Treat me like the big deal that I am not.

Jim
 
See the plane in the bottom of this post? You ever have it on your line and there's a storm coming, feel free to stick it in a hangar, I'll even pay you.
If I work at an FBO again, and I see your airplane I will Henning. We like people like you. :yes:
The new FBO in Sioux Falls has a deal where they lend out one of the Enterprise rentals as crew car. If you need it for an hour to run into town, it is free. If you need it overnight they make it a rental. They are competing with Landmark on the field, in your case, a decommissioned police cruiser or other city vehicle will be sufficient. People don't mind them turning into beaters.

I'd still rather go to Landmark. I think the new place made Landmark improve their game... they slipped a little bit when it changed from Encore.
 
What was the FBO in North Dakota that had the fleet of 55-57 Chevys? I stopped in there once on a fuel stop, forget which airport, and was handed the keys to a 56 Nomad to go get lunch.

I've been given anything from a new Mercedes to an old Cutlass I had to fix to get back to the airport lol, ex cop cars are popular with a lot of municipality run FBOs.
 
Rather than tell you what I want, I'll give some examples of what has impressed me in the past...

KJCT Junction, TX: Landed with a minor maintenance concern. FBO manager scrounged up some tools that I could use and actually helped out a bit. Afterwards, he gave me a ride to the hotel and then picked me up the the AM. All of this at no charge.

KJES Jessup, GA: Landed due to cheap fuel advertised. No one was home, however the mayor of Jessup just happened to be on the field. He showed me how to get into the FBO where they had a rather nice set up. I mean, there were two bedrooms for sleeping, and a washer and dryer, as well as a kitchen if need be. Plus numbers for local cabs to take you into town. The mayor even helped me fuel the plane.

KRDU Raleigh-Durham, NC: Got stuck here for weather a couple of times. Each time the FBO (Tac-Air) took good care of my plane and gave me a ride to the hotel of my choice. No charge for the ride. One time, due to my showing off my avionics the night before and cold weather the next day, I found myself with an extremely weak battery. They scrounged up an extension cord so I could plug in my Tanis heater and later provided a power card so I could get started. Again, no charge. This was is a big FBO and I fully expected to get nickle and dimed for the extra service so I was pleasantly surprised when the bill came.

I69 Claremont, OH: I was unable to get charts at the local FBO so decided to stop Sporty's on the way to Oshkosh one year. I was fortunate that the charts I did have included I69 (but not much farther!!). Due to some things that had nothing to do with Sportys, we found ourselves running late and determined that we would be pushing it to get to Oshkosh before the field closed for the night. We opted to spend the night in Claremont instead. With no prompting from us, the folks at Sporty's offered up their crew car (a new VW Beatle) and gave us directions to the hotels in the area along with some restaurant recommendations.

KRNC: McMinnville, TN: Stopped here to wait for weather to clear over the Appalachians. After asking the FBO to call a cab for me, they called BS on that request and told me to take their crew car. At the same time, they offered to put my plane in the hangar since a line of thunderstorms were supposed to come by. Later that evening the tornado sirens went off and I was really glad I took them up on the offer. I ended up staying four nights before the weather over the mountains improved enough for me to continue on. Each day I called to offer the car back to them. Each time they said to go ahead and keep it. When I finally left I was shocked that there was no charge for the hangar.

KUNO West Plains, MO: I stayed here for several days. No ramp charge and helped with the SS fuel. They also have a fleet of four crew cars with instructions on how to get the keys after hours. Again, I never requested the crew car that I got, but it was appreciated.


That should be enough. The common theme is that I really like it when folks go out of there way to help the lowly single engine GA guy out. In all of the examples above I would have gladly paid for the services rendered, but definitely appreciated when it was comped. In appreciation, I normally took on a bit more gas than I might have otherwise.
 
Beater car is no problem. It's low cost/free.

If I want or expect a nice car, I will rent one.
 
The fact that you are asking probably means that you are doing what a good FBO does. The comments on AirNav would support that. Folks have given good comments above. I second clean bathrooms, Important to me VERY Important to my wife.

Reasonably priced fuel.

Friendly service and being greeted on the ramp. I don't like to wonder where I should park.

Thank the pilot for his/her patronage.

Coffee, Snacks

One FBO greeted me with a bottle of water at the desk. That was nice.


Also welcome to Pilots of America! Hope you like it here!
 
Or does the benefit of having a car outweigh the appearance of the car?
Dear God, I should post some pictures of some of the planes I rent.

Many of them are missing substantial portions of interiors.

I'm sure whatever car you can afford is fine as long as it is safe =)
 
Since my beginning and end destinations are typically fixed, where you get my business specifically is when I'm looking for a fuel stop en route to my destination. What gets me to stop at your FBO is, above all else, low fuel prices and self-serve fuel. So I do think it is important to keep those competitive with what is the lowest available within at least a 50 nm radius. Seeing "GUARANTEED" on AirNav is a big plus as well, so I would look into doing that.

Please have a way to get into the FBO building. The standard combo that uses 1200, 7700, 1228 etc. is perfect. That way I don't have to use your nearby tree and can wash my hands after the 100LL. Normally I'm in and out in under 20 minutes. You sell 100 gallons of fuel, and we're both happy. :)

Personally, I rarely use courtesy cars because I'm in and out so fast. Not having one I don't think will make or break my view of the airport - I always plan to have food so I don't need to borrow a car for meals. Again, I'm in a hurry, and your airport is probably just a fuel stop. But if you don't have a courtesy car, I do think it makes sense to have some deal where pilots can easily and quickly rent cars. Have friendly staff, and it does help if they genuinely think airplanes are cool.

So from my point of view: fuel price, fuel price, fuel price, guaranteed fuel price, self serve. :)
 
What about extension chords for engine heaters for those staying overnight?
 
What about extension chords for engine heaters for those staying overnight?

Oh, and if your employee was not available in the evening when I arrived and I had to drag my own extension cord across the ramp in -12F weather, dont have a 'plug in fee' show up on my bill the next morning (Huron, SD).

However, feel free to pull my plane into the big hangar if there is freezing rain outside and decline payment if offered (Quincy, IL).
 
Ground transportation is very important. Without it, attractions for coming to your airport become limited to what's at the airport, and I'm guessing that ain't much. Get a courtesy car.

Cheap fuel is another attraction. Knock your fuel price down by $1/gal and you'll be the cheapest in the state, and you'll show up on Airnav's Great Deal report - One of the two sources I look to for planning stops.

One more thing, work with your local businesses to see which one's will pickup or drop off at the airport.

This! That'll also help free up the courtesy car for others, and it's an opportunity to talk to those business owners about the benefits the airport can bring them.

Vending machines are nice, too.
 
What about extension chords for engine heaters for those staying overnight?

I keep those in the plane at all times. They're cheap, and you should keep them in the plane, too. Don't forget a sleeping bag to cover the engine.
 
I cancelled a trip to a small town just last weekend simply because there was no ground transportation available. It was not a critical trip, so I just scrubbed it. I would have been willing to pay the FBO for a rental car. I asked them about ground transport, "we don't have any". Do you know of any other options? "No". Gee, thanks.

This leads to probably the best advice I can give: Find out a way to say "yes". Years ago, I was in a position where I often required services from vendors that liked to say things like "we can get to it next week" and I had to leave town the next day. I discovered that asking "Can you recommend someone who can do it today?" would generally result in a change of heart. Rather than being like that, find a way to serve every possible need your customer has right off the bat - Offer everything you can. Ideas, options, etc... And they'll love you. And tell their friends.
 
I stopped in Perry Florida because they had worked out a deal with a local hotel for free transport. It cost the fbo $0.
 
Yeah perhaps taking a credit card number will be a solution to prevent such abuse. When their money is directly on the line, that might indeed discourage the abusers. In regards to having a "beater", does that make the FBO look too cheap or unprofessional at all? For busy airports with maybe two FBOs at an airport I am sure the cars are nice, but would you arriving to a small airport and seeing a beater being pulled up to you discourage you in any way or maybe compel you to write a negative review? Or does the benefit of having a car outweigh the appearance of the car?
The short answer is no, it doesn't make the FBO look cheap. I flew into an airport in NC and was literally driven to a barn to use the pickup. The truck was beat 9 ways to Sunday but I appreciated them letting me use it for an hour or so. The truck was returned with a full tank even though it had about 1/2 tank when we picked it up.
 
1 cheap gas
2 cheap gas
3 cheap gas
4 clean bathroom
5 cheap gas
6 wifi (fast)
7 cheap gas

I seek out smaller airports because I don't need to be treated like a millionaire and just as well I can't afford it either!
 
General advice:

1) Figure out what customers you want & what your core business (fuel, ramp space, MX, services, etc...) will be. Figure out where on the price/value continuum you want to be. Research if you can get enough traffic to be a going concern. Stick to that. Be flexible but do not undercut yourself in critical services as a draw (fuel at a loss vs small margin).

2) Whatever facilities/equipment you have, make absolutely sure that a) They are in decent repair and b) They are cleaned regularly. New or flashy doesn't matter too much- Old, Clean, and Serviceable beats New, Icky, and Junky.

3) Don't touch customer's stuff for convenience. Have an emergency/storm waiver with a customer contact # and a checkbox for "[move / do not move] in case of severe WX / emergency and unable to contact".

4) Be attentive but not formulaic. It is OK if an employee is doing something away from the front desk. However, that employee better greet the customer with a smile immediately after seeing them.

5) Make an exception where possible. Say "yes" when you can.

Specific advice:
1) Focus on jets/twins/biz traffic or light pistons. Don't try to be all things to all people; however, have "some" type-appropriate service/referral available for any plane that can make it to the ramp.

2) Important to Pilots/Pax in descending order: ramp space, restrooms, 24-hour Fuel, quick snack/drinks on-field, WX briefing access, comfy chairs in lounge, courtesy car / ride service, rental car availability.

3) Offer a ride service or courtesy car for 1-hr or enough to get to a restaurant. Require a quick signoff and CC. Charge CC and/or call police if not returned in same condition after 90min. Have rental cars and/or taxi available for other needs. If all else fails, offer to drop off in town or at hotel.
 
Sounds like an extra set of keys, gps trackers, and remote activated (via cell phone) car alarms would be a hoot for crew cars.
 
Sounds like an extra set of keys, gps trackers, and remote activated (via cell phone) car alarms would be a hoot for crew cars.
Doubt it. Not a lot of people flying airplanes to airports, leaving their airplane on the ramp, then stealing their crew car.
 
But extra set of keys is important. I've flown off twice with the keys to cars. One was a crew car from Grant, NE and the other was a rental from Sacramento. Both times when i called to apologize they said no problem, we have an extra set, just drop them in the mail.
 
Page AZ, marshalled to parking, he took our fuel order and called the truck on a radio. It was there before we could streatch our legs. FBO drove us to a lunch spot in town, number to call for return trip. It was close enough, we walked back for the exercise, we had another 4 hr leg in front of us.

Pueblo CO, landed late, only plane on the ramp. Marshalled for parking and took our fuel order and tie down for the night. Desk girl arranged hotel and transportation. Promise to move us inside if a storm approached.

Nowwhere KS. Mid day fuel stop, car to lunch.

Green airport, Dayton, OH. Called ahead for a car, they had it ready, they had a deal with enterprise. Overnight parking and fuel, great wifi and service.

Elmira NY, FBO provided fuel, overnight parking and shuttle service to and from hotel.

Atlantic Aviation at a lot of different airports has provided great service, enterprise cars for OVN. Clean FBO, wifi.

Helena MT, arranged Hotel with shuttle for unexpected overnight stop.

Hate old coffee, get a Kurig machine and keep a variety of coffees, to include decafe. And cups.
 
FBOs are one of the best things there is about general aviation in the US. It is 1:22 in the morning, With 2-3 phonecalls made while driving to the airport, I could arrange ground transportation and my plane to be taken care of at hundreds of airports within the flying range of my plane. Only if you ever tried to land at a place that doesn't have a FBO and where you dont have a counterpart who could pick you up, you start to appreciate how valuable the services they provide are. Without an FBO, it's just a strip of concrete in the middle of nowhere. Yes, here and there you will encounter rip-off artists camouflaging as FBOs or rudeness and incompetence by front line staff, the great majority of occasions that is not the case and you couldn't be treated nicer. It sounds like the FBO in Jamestown is on the right track, I'll be back in Fargo on monday and may just take a trip out to JMS to give redknight some business.
 
The times I would use an establishment like yours are when on a long cross-country trip. Like many of the others I prefer to stop at a smaller place, its usually more interesting and saves money on fuel.

However a biggie is the courtesy car. I would pay a premium (not a 'signature' premium mind you :)) on fuel to get access to some wheels.

A quiet/bunk room as Henning mentioned is also a great plus. If I'm trying to cover some distance a premium for me is a cheap or free place to simply rest. Maybe its not something you advertise, per se. I'm low maintenance and overhead and really don't need anything else besides a quiet place. Yes, I'm the kind of guy who has camped under a wing and is gone at sunrise.
 
Yeah perhaps taking a credit card number will be a solution to prevent such abuse. When their money is directly on the line, that might indeed discourage the abusers. In regards to having a "beater", does that make the FBO look too cheap or unprofessional at all? For busy airports with maybe two FBOs at an airport I am sure the cars are nice, but would you arriving to a small airport and seeing a beater being pulled up to you discourage you in any way or maybe compel you to write a negative review? Or does the benefit of having a car outweigh the appearance of the car?

Part of the mystique and adventure of GA travel is not knowing what kind of galopy you'll get. I think the coolest one I've had was a recent ex-police car. It made a great driver out of everyone nearby. By the way, when I drove that one I had to call the local police station to get the combo to a lockbox to retrieve the key. Perhaps this would discourage abuse?

I remember the first courtesy car I rode around in.. I went for a ride with my flight school boss/mentor who had a day job flying a King Air. The FBO's loaner car was a gigantic old boat with exhaust leaking out around the sides of the car into the windows at low speeds. That was OK because it didn't really like to stay running while at a complete stop at the same time. Memories... :)
 
First.. To the OP... Welcome to POA..:thumbsup:

Second... All the above comments are valid and will serve you well in expanding your business...

Third... Congrats on placing this thread in the "Cool Places to Fly" column.

And lastly... Remember you are in the prime spot for cross country flyers from the Pacific NW headed to OSH every summer... Put on a promotion to draw them into your facility. treat them well and word of mouth advertising will pay off BIG time.. :yes:
 
Last edited:
Take a second look at the courtesy car thing. You say it was abused and damaged. Maybe the people letting it out did not have the pilots adhere to the rules? Maybe the local government and eateries would be willing to chip in. Without ground transportation how are visitors to your airport to get into town?
 
The problem is scheduling. When can The FBO expect the car back when it's needed by someone else? Everybody knows it will sit for a week and then 3 people will want it at the same time. pilots of singles should also know the car "has been promised" to the Falcon 2000 crew who pulls in after you do.

The sign-up sheet should include verified DL info, verified cell# and time of return on sig line. If I give you a free car to drive, I want to know who's driving it and for how long.

But whatever the hassle, BFE airports gotta have one.




Doubt it. Not a lot of people flying airplanes to airports, leaving their airplane on the ramp, then stealing their crew car.
 
Doubt it. Not a lot of people flying airplanes to airports, leaving their airplane on the ramp, then stealing their crew car.

Sorry, shoulda been a little more specific. I was not thinking about theft, but, rather, the "I'll be back in an hour" and you don't see the car for 2, 3 , 24, 48 hours as some have described here.

I like the idea of lifts to town, hotels, restaurants and that had been mentioned here; via airport crew or employees from the hotel or restaurant.

Another transportation "resource" idea that just came to me is a volunteer list. I remember (from my boating days) being happily transported by colorful locals/volunteers.

In Illion, NY there was a group of retirees from Remington Arms that hung around the little marina. Most were WWII vets, too. They loved helping out.

Another was Troy, NY and this older gal was like a self appointed town ambassador. As I recall, it was an odd holiday and the restaurant near the docks was closed. She was chatting with the young dock master when we asked about a cab to a restaurant. The retired gal said, "I'll drive ya!" and off we went. We offered to by her dinner at the little Italian place she took us to, but she said, "I am not hungry, buy I will sit and visit with you" and she did....giving us a synopsis of the town, her life, and local history". It was a hoot.

Just a thought to ponder.
 
2.) The place I'm actually going to make my final destination or stop for the night. Service is big here and I'm willing to pay. I've been using Signature a lot lately when traveling and really can't complain. Yeah it's pricey but not really considering the other costs and when I land I will be in my rental car in 5 minutes and it's already running with either the AC or heat on as appropriate.

Especially when my wife is along on the trip. She loves to be greeted with a cold bottle of water as we step off the wing, she loves the rental car to be pulled up and heating/cooling before I've gotten the baggage out of the plane. Both she and the girl enjoy the fresh cookies in the lobby. It really makes it feel like vacation to her, and the happier she is, the happier we are.

But the most important thing to me is just to be greeted as I arrive. A nice friendly smiling face goes a LONG way.
 
I understand his predicament regarding the courtesy car. We had one years ago army local field and the courtesy was abused,mostly by the turbine pilots. Apparently the guys coming in with a Cherokee 140 or 172 etc. happily put a few gallons in the tank. They also got rid of it which stunk but they were tired of being taken advantage of.

I guess one way to do it would be to figure out what the average trip in the car is, say its 15 miles RT then charge say a $5 ramp fee if you borrow the car, no need to worry about if the pilot filled it up or not.
 
Back
Top