wabower
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Wayne
New here! Looking at some different planes and need some help!
- Thread starter timmy318
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lol.......
. Whenever I fly by myself, that's always an option, but as soon as another person is in the aircraft with me, it takes flight. Also, one of my friends had one bad experience (which I'll gladly leave out the details). We were flying down to TX at 200KTS at FL15,000 ft when he had to pee. I was in the back napping (we were flying from Raleigh NC and were flying alternate legs so the other person could get a nap/rest or whatever he wanted to do). He had just finished a Dr. Pepper and as I said before needed too pee. For some reason he thought he couldn't hold it long enough to get to the ground and so he tried to pee in the bottle, not the brightest of ideas this world has ever seen 
. Needless to say he had the plane cleaned thoroughly before we returned to the rental airport.....
poadeleted21
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wabower
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Wayne
Some words like 'hang' are used as figures of speech and must be interpreted as such when used in certain context. 'Blow' is another such word.
define "hang with".... nevermind... don't.
Jthamilton
Line Up and Wait
2004 and newer T182T, gets you all the bells and whistles and leaves enough cash to buy a taildragger also
I'm pleased with my 2002, sure wish I had the g1000 though. Useful load 1089 pounds, figure how you want to load it or take away fuel. Wife says she is very comfortable in the back.
I'm pleased with my 2002, sure wish I had the g1000 though. Useful load 1089 pounds, figure how you want to load it or take away fuel. Wife says she is very comfortable in the back.
alfadog
Final Approach
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Long before is spent 7-800k on a new plane I would buy a T-210 with a timmed out engine and the most clapped out radios I could find, install an new engine (possibly a bigger one), a G600, paint and interior and still be cash ahead
tmyers
En-Route
Truth is brutal sometimes, and then I just don't take myself too seriously.
wabower
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Wayne
That sounds about right, although some claim to be able to use the storm window on a Cherokee. I'm not among them.
In the oil patch we carried a coffee can half-filled with sand with the lid secured. Anybody could use it (as the old limerick said " . . . concave or convex, it would fit either sex . . .") It would sit flat on the cabin floor and in all the years I never saw it spill. On the rare occasions when anybody used it, we just pitched the sand on the grass somewhere and refilled the sand ASAP. I still think it's a better solution because of the ease of use, volume and flexibility (airsick) provided and because the lids are air-tight and easy to use.
QUOTE=tmyers;1203483]Kinda like pull out empty bottle, pull out, well you know, start flow, miss bottle, **** all over self, seat, and carpet. Drop bottle and remaining fluid on self, seat and carpet. Is that what you mean Wayne? I can picture that happening in the Arrow, as there just isn't that much room. And then I am hung like a hamster, so there you go.[/QUOTE]
In the oil patch we carried a coffee can half-filled with sand with the lid secured. Anybody could use it (as the old limerick said " . . . concave or convex, it would fit either sex . . .") It would sit flat on the cabin floor and in all the years I never saw it spill. On the rare occasions when anybody used it, we just pitched the sand on the grass somewhere and refilled the sand ASAP. I still think it's a better solution because of the ease of use, volume and flexibility (airsick) provided and because the lids are air-tight and easy to use.
QUOTE=tmyers;1203483]Kinda like pull out empty bottle, pull out, well you know, start flow, miss bottle, **** all over self, seat, and carpet. Drop bottle and remaining fluid on self, seat and carpet. Is that what you mean Wayne? I can picture that happening in the Arrow, as there just isn't that much room. And then I am hung like a hamster, so there you go.[/QUOTE]
Skylane81E
Final Approach
I too have heard about the use of a coffee can, but would like to add a note,
It may be required to "burp" the can during climbs and decents
It may be required to "burp" the can during climbs and decents
tmyers
En-Route
About 20 years ago I was flying the family back from Wimlington, NC to Middletown, OH. We were in a 180D and were making pretty good time. At 6000' over Greensboro my wife says isn't that where we landed on the way down. I said yes but we will have tailwinds and will be able to make it home without stopping. She says but I have to go to the bathroom, can't we just land there now? I reached in my flight bag and pulled out one of those portable pottys complete with the plastic female attachment.
She looks at the device looks at me and points down clearly saying, "Land Now"
ATC was quite surprised when I asked to change my flight plan and land from an altitude of 6000'.
For those that wonder how I could be so uncoordinated as to not being able to pee in a bottle ....... you should have seen my dismount from the golf cart last night at the Airport. FlyingMoose can attest to my grace.
She looks at the device looks at me and points down clearly saying, "Land Now"
ATC was quite surprised when I asked to change my flight plan and land from an altitude of 6000'.
For those that wonder how I could be so uncoordinated as to not being able to pee in a bottle ....... you should have seen my dismount from the golf cart last night at the Airport. FlyingMoose can attest to my grace.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
But in the 182, the four people don't have to be midgets
Yup, but only the OP knows what size his people are.
Also, note that for the theoretical 500nm trip, the difference in available cabin load was only 60 pounds between the Mooney and the 182. As you know, on the average you're going to have a headwind. Because the 182 will be exposed to that headwind for a longer period of time because it's slower, as the headwind increases the available load of the Mooney will approach and then eclipse that of the 182 (although they'll both be going down).
Meh - There really aren't any 4-seaters where two "real-sized" people are going to be comfortable for that long. I've had four people in the Mooney for maybe an hour at a time, I've had four in the 182 for a couple of 3-hour legs but they were my skinny brother and sister-in-law. If you want four real-sized people, a PA32/PA34 sized plane is a lot better.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
The backseat room comparison is only what I speak of
I'm 6'4" tall and I've had adults sitting behind me in the Mooney - The shorter the pilot is, the more comfy the back seat gets, and that's true of any airplane.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hooray! Let us know how it goes...
Samwise
Filing Flight Plan
This. You could for all purposes make a 210 into a 'new' plane that would fit your mission very well (I don't think it can do 1000nm with stock tanks though). I'm actually surprised more people haven't recommended that.
jonnyjetprop
Cleared for Takeoff
The only thing I'd throw out is to beg, borrow or steal (OK, not steal) a ride in each type of plane you're looking at. The longer, the better. Type clubs are a great source to find a ride. It's far too hard to see how the plane will fit you and your family from the Internet or pictures.
tmyers
En-Route
The only thing I have ridden in the back of is a Mooney, and I was surprised at the leg room I had. I have climbed into the back of my Arrow a couple times and had a hard time figuring out where to put my feet. For ingress and egress I usually have the co-pilot seat most of the way back which may account for the lack of room, not sure.
Agree with Johns comments you need to ride in one to test it's feasibility.
Agree with Johns comments you need to ride in one to test it's feasibility.
wabower
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210's and A-36 Bo's are by far the most comfortable second row seating of any. I think it's primarily because it's the middle row in those planes and not the back row. The individually adjusting forward-facing seats, ease of access, shaded seating area and ability to see whatever you're flying over causes me to favor the 210.
I'm 6.3 X 240 and my broker friend is 6.5 X 230, we always sit in the second row of the company's 210 because they're waaay better than the copilot seat and we never touch shoulders.
I'm 6.3 X 240 and my broker friend is 6.5 X 230, we always sit in the second row of the company's 210 because they're waaay better than the copilot seat and we never touch shoulders.
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dell30rb
Final Approach
I got about half started on a post twice and never finished!
Yes you would come out way ahead of a new stationair if you just bought a used 210 and got it how you wanted it.
http://www.controller.com/listingsd...TURBO-210L/1976-CESSNA-TURBO-210L/1171237.htm
Just add 60k for some glass and an autopilot.
jmp470
Line Up and Wait
Did you think about the Piper Matrix or Mirage?
Yup, but only the OP knows what size his people are.
Also, note that for the theoretical 500nm trip, the difference in available cabin load was only 60 pounds between the Mooney and the 182. As you know, on the average you're going to have a headwind. Because the 182 will be exposed to that headwind for a longer period of time because it's slower, as the headwind increases the available load of the Mooney will approach and then eclipse that of the 182 (although they'll both be going down).
Meh - There really aren't any 4-seaters where two "real-sized" people are going to be comfortable for that long. I've had four people in the Mooney for maybe an hour at a time, I've had four in the 182 for a couple of 3-hour legs but they were my skinny brother and sister-in-law. If you want four real-sized people, a PA32/PA34 sized plane is a lot better.
My people aren't exactly midgets by any standards. 6ft+ and around 200 lbs is what I will be carrying people wise (per person on average).
I totally agree with both of you! I have flown in some local Cirrus's and liked the "feel". They weren't the newer (G5) generation but I don't imagine that the difference would that great. There's a airport about an hour by plane away that I've talked too that has a brand new cirrus and a stationair. I've talked too both the owners and explained my situation to them and they told me that they would be glad to help convince me of an aircraft :wink2:! I haven't been able to locate a Corvallis yet. One passed by my airport not too long ago so I know there's at least one out there :wink2:!
I've thought about that. I'd like to get a fixed gear aircraft though because my son is hopefully going for his check-ride soon so I'd like for him to be able to fly it once in a while. He's only going to get his PPL & HP rating, no instrument rating or anything else for a while until he gets his hours up. I also just would like a new aircraft were I can fly it right from the "lot" (for a lack of a better term) and fly home without having to do any mods etc...
Those are at the top of my price range. They also have RG which my son wouldn't be able to fly for a while by himself if he does in fact get his PPL soon.
tmyers
En-Route
Just go for the caravan, gear down and welded
I'm not exactly looking to spend $2 million on a plane yet....... Trying to keep it around or below $800K here.
Have you contacted Cirrus sales? In my area they are very nice about bringing a plane over and giving you a demo ride. I don't work for Cirrus and certainly can't afford a new one but I do know the local sales guy and can work through him if you don't get a response. However, Cirrus is usually very responsive. An SR22T with FIKI and A/C is one heck of a nice plane and the owners' group (COPA) is excellent.
For a purchase of the magnitude you are talking about I would suggest joining the owners' group for each of the top three candidates. It isn't that much money. While each group will be biased towards their choice there is a lot of good information to be found. For Cirrus it would be found at Cirruspilots.org. For the Corvalis try cessnaadvancedaircraftclub.com.
Thanks for that! Signing up now on both! Is there anything like that for a Stationair/210?
wabower
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Check with Cessna for the currently-produced fixed-gear singles, the guy in Tulsa is a good source for 210 info.
While you're riding around in that Cirrus don't forget that you can buy a real nice King Air 90 that is ten times the airplane for half as much money and will be worth as much as you paid for it when you sell it.
While you're riding around in that Cirrus don't forget that you can buy a real nice King Air 90 that is ten times the airplane for half as much money and will be worth as much as you paid for it when you sell it.
Not twin rated. Started working on it a while back but nah. Don't have the need for one and it just means more fuel.
jmp470
Line Up and Wait
How about Da 42?
Yet again. Not twin rated people!!!! Looking for a single engine plane
! "test" flew a corvallis today and loved it! The guy who let me was awesome and answered all my "stupid" & "newbie" questions ! Now I really need to get a stationair, Corvallis, and Cirrus SR-22 (non t) right next to each other and look at them, fly them right after each other, etc...
wabower
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Considering the budget you are proposing and having been through this same drill with hundreds of buyers over the years, I think you are taking a very short-sighted approach by allowing the lack of a twin rating influence the decision about the quality and safety of ride you will be living with for the upcoming years. Have you considered the benefits, comfort and safety of pressurization?
The rating is easy to obtain and you can gain experience while you're building the time and enjoying a ride that is light years better than any of the other stuff you have mentioned. You will lose as much money on the sale of a Cirrus as you spend operating a nicer plane, and during the 22 years I have flown, operated or co-owned King Airs nobody has needed to pee in a Gatorade bottle. Nor have they had to worry about having an extra iced-tea at lunch for fear they will be forced to endure two hours of agony until the next stop. Nor will they be confined to a single narrow seat for the endurance of the trips. And the list goes on.
I'll also swear under oath that none of the many that have made the move have ever gone back.
The rating is easy to obtain and you can gain experience while you're building the time and enjoying a ride that is light years better than any of the other stuff you have mentioned. You will lose as much money on the sale of a Cirrus as you spend operating a nicer plane, and during the 22 years I have flown, operated or co-owned King Airs nobody has needed to pee in a Gatorade bottle. Nor have they had to worry about having an extra iced-tea at lunch for fear they will be forced to endure two hours of agony until the next stop. Nor will they be confined to a single narrow seat for the endurance of the trips. And the list goes on.
I'll also swear under oath that none of the many that have made the move have ever gone back.
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I don't understand the non T comment on the Cirrus. It is in you budget. Heck a FIKI and turbo Cirrus should be cheaper than the Corvalis. I don't have a turbo but it does add a lot of flexibility. Few fly them in the flight levels that often but the fast climb makes it nice flying in the teens. I would not get FIKI without the turbo.
dell30rb
Final Approach
Talk to some insurance companies. They can make it happen. Will probably require 10-20hrs dual. The extra cost of insurance for the first year and the instructor for the extra checkout time is going to be 100x less than the cost and hassle of two airplane purchases.
Given that you want to carry 4 200lb people I don't think you'll be happy with an SR22 or cessna 182.
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Lots of folks jump into retracts right away, folding gear only worried me before I first flew one
dell30rb
Final Approach
wabower
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Wayne
Doesn't really matter what he's comfortable with, only what they're comfortable with. I've seen numerous pax "drop an A-36 like a hot rock" and head en masse for the SWA ticket counter because of all the obvious reasons (size, space, speed, amenities) that everybody who considers such a plane should anticipate but that the plane owner thought were OK and they would adjust to them.
dell30rb
Final Approach
I don't quite understand your point.
That a Cirrus might be more acceptable to his passengers?
From what I understand he and his son are pilots and they are looking for a plane for them that can occasionally haul 4 200lb people and (I am assuming) some room left over for bags. 500 and 1000nm trips were mentioned so I was thinking something in the 150kt+ range