LED lights at home

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

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iMooniac
Is anyone using LED-based light bulbs in their home?

I like the energy savings of CFL's, but not the delay in power-up or the overly white color. I'm interested in starting to use LED bulbs, even though they're still somewhat more expensive. Suggestions welcome... Thanks!
 
Oh, and I'm also curious - How dimmable are most LED bulb units? LED's themselves have a pretty quick dropoff at the low end, are manufacturers taking this into account?

Also, do the LED power units allow for a small amount of current to pass through when the light is off so that X10 lamp modules work with them?
 
Work for me.

The wife likes the instant on.

Some LED lights are advertised as being dimmable and some dimmers are advertised as working with CFL / LED lamps. I have a set of 4 LED screw in flood lights in the back room that dim just fine (selected the bulbs and dimmer specifically for this). They don't go all the way down to "dark" like a lot of incandescent stuff, but they dim to about 1/2 or less of the full brightness.

Some bulbs have the obvious set of LEDs inside. The ones in the back room (made by Philips) could pass for incandescent bulbs.

Edit: They bulb package said that they are not for use with some kinds of on / off things (motion sensing?) - I don't recall the details.
 
Yes. Compared to the CFLs, it's night and day. I love the LEDs. I've had very bad luck with the CFLs from Costco (and Home Depot) - short lives, poor startup, 10% DOA. The LEDs have been great. Fast-on, longer life so far, no ballast.

Even dimming has been OK - though it may depend on your dimmer. I won't buy CFL any more...
 
Feeling too lazy to dig it up ... what about kelvin? I absolutely hate blue light indoors (esp at night). So, what am I looking for in either LED (preferred) or CFL to mimic the "warm glow" of an incandescent?
 
We're curious about this, too. Our new home has almost everything on a dimmer switch, especially a bunch of flood lights, and those floods produce a lot of heat and take a lot of power. Thinking about switching to some dimmable LEDs, but also want to keep the dimmers we have because most of our lights are on 3-way switches. Any suggestions on brands in particular that just bolt in and will work with a normal dimmer?
 
The first bunch that were available cheated a lot on the equivalent brightness, but the PAR38's we had in some of our recessed lighting that we picked up of late at Lowe's work pretty well. The only problem is that it's real obvious when you mix the wrong color temperature. One of my three is definitely different than the other two.
 
I just installed my first batch of LEDs in my apartment. I have been intrigued, but holding off due to the cost. Newegg had a 2-for-1 deal a week ago... two 40-watt equivalent bulbs for $10, so I got a total of four bulbs for $20. Not sure how they compare to pricier bulbs, but I much prefer the color to the CFL's I had before. There is a noticeable delay before they come on, but at least they don't flicker on like a CFL often does. Even then, we're talking like 1 second, so it's not like it's a problem, just that you might get tricked into flipping the switch a few times before realizing you just have to wait.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
We're curious about this, too. Our new home has almost everything on a dimmer switch, especially a bunch of flood lights, and those floods produce a lot of heat and take a lot of power. Thinking about switching to some dimmable LEDs, but also want to keep the dimmers we have because most of our lights are on 3-way switches. Any suggestions on brands in particular that just bolt in and will work with a normal dimmer?
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The package with the bulbs (flood light style) I bought listed a web site that you could check for dimmer compatability - which suggests that not all dimmers work.

I just bought a dimmer (which just happened to be a three way) at the same time as the bulbs - it wasn't really that hard to change... Don't recall the brand - it came from Home Depot.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Oh, and I'm also curious - How dimmable are most LED bulb units? LED's themselves have a pretty quick dropoff at the low end, are manufacturers taking this into account?

Also, do the LED power units allow for a small amount of current to pass through when the light is off so that X10 lamp modules work with them?
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I've got R-30 LED Floods in several cans (recessed fixtures) around the house. I got most of them at Costco with prices ranging from $12-$16. I've gotten fed up with CFLs due to their long warmup time which seems to increase dramatically with age and the fact that most have fallen far short of their advertised life expectancy. Also my wife hasn't been fond of the spectrum or color temp of the typical CFL. The LED's spectrum is pretty close to a halogen incandescent, perhaps with a slightly higher amount of blue and AFaIK all of the marketed LED lamps for home use generate white by exciting broad wavelength phosphors so the spectrum isn't as peaky as CFLs (makes colored objects look more like they do in daylight).

All the LEDs I have are "dimmable" although I haven't connected any to dimmers partly because most of the LEDs are on circuits that are shared with CFLs that haven't died yet so I can't say how well they dim. OTOH, I've designed a lot of LED illuminators for industrial cameras and it's pretty simple to control their light output. Given that the R-30 lamps have between 4 and 10 LEDs, each of which likely has a forward voltage in the 2-3 volt range, it's very likely that these lamps include a Switchmode Power supply to efficiently drop the 120v AC to the much lower voltage needed for the LEDs. And it would be trivial to design that supply so it produces a current that's proportional to the average line voltage.

So far I've been quite satisfied with the LED lamps although I haven't had any longer than about 6 months so the jury is still out on their longevity. LEDs lose light output over time and the loss rate is greatly affected by the die temperature which in turn is significantly reduced when they are dimmed. So unlike CFLs which typically experience reduced life when dimmed, dimming could easily increase LED life by two or more. For that reason alone I'll probably be installing dimmers once I get all the lamps on a given circuit all converted to LEDs. Also it might be inadvisable to use LEDs in areas that often experience high ambient temperatures.

One thing to note, all the LED lamps I've got (at least 3 different brands) have a small but noticeable turn on delay around 500-1000 ms. That's not anywhere near as annoying as the CFL warmup period but it can lead to confusion when you don't know which switch operates which lamps.
 
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We have always had three 75W Halogen PAR38 cans over the kitchen island that, of the 30 some PAR38 recessed lights in the house, are the only ones that have ever blown out in the last eight years (about every 18 months). Not surprising as all the prep work and cleanup happens at the island, and we like to cook. Also, since the island location changed slightly after the lights were roughed in, we had to go to 'wide floodlight' style halogens to keep the entire area evenly lit.

On the one hand, LED's service life was very desirable, but we were concerned about the brightness and coverage being equal. I was going to start doing Google based research, but one day wandering through Lowe's I decided to take the easy way out: I bought three of every PAR38 LED style / brightness they had, took them home, and did the trial and error deal.

Settled on a 125 watt equivalent 1300 Lumens bulb from Ecosmart, which satisfied the brightness and the coverage requirements as well as the halogens they replaced. Took all the rest back for a full refund. Zero complaints, no issues.

Edit: forgot to mention the color of the island LED's matches the 75w Halogens that are in other parts of the kitchen.
 
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I'm in the process of replacing the CFL's with LED's - the master bedroom, guest bath and kitchen area now have LEDs- they dim - which is nice at times. The light is every bit as bright as long as you pick the right light bulbs -

When we move in 4 or 5 years - we will literally take the bulbs with us . . . and put the CFL's back in. . . . I have an LED I bought in a lark at a home show for $40 [a 60w] back in 2001 I think? Someone was selling them at a steep loss to get people to look at their stuff - it still is working. Don't have any 11 year old CFL's . . .
 
In our recently finished basement, I only had one lighting circuit to work with and wanted to max it out per code allowance. Even though not entirely necessary, I decided to make all the lights LED to ease the wattage strain. I again used the trial and error method over the pool table and the Foosball table, using track light strips and figuring out which led bulb / fixture combo did a good job.

In the theater area, I have four small recessed lights along the side walls that needed to be on a dimmer, allowing a switch between 'room lighting mode' and 'theater mode'. The dimmer had a potentiometer on it to adjust the low end, and I had trouble getting the LED's to still work at the 'theater mode' level I wanted, so sometimes we just switch the lights all the way off. Not as perfect a solution as the island floods, but not terrible.
 
Just finished our new Energy Star Certified home. All lights are LED's on the outside and CFL's on the inside. We like that the CFL's start up a tad dimmer then brighten up.
 
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We have lots of GU10 (like MR16, but 120v) in the house. We slowly bought non-dimmable LED versions from Menards and we like them. They are not as bright as the halogen's, but much cooler and bright enough in the areas we are using them. We have lots in the kitchen...

Dimmable ones are next as soon as we find 'em

If you have standard base lights, please consider buying these from a local high school FIRST robotics team
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/first-green-e-watt-saver
 
I put a bunch of LEDs in last year. They were mid-price and very white. I like 'em.

For table lamps I sprung for Phillips which had yellow coverings over their blue-white LEDs inside which mix and give a decent impression of an incandescent bulb.

The only lamp that doesn't like them is a capactive touch lamp that does its own dimming. The LED is actually happy on the two lowest settings but niticinle flickers on the brightest. We just don't turn it all the way up.

I did have one fail. It noticeably smoked its base. It was in a dual ceiling fixture and the twin hasn't had any problems. A replacement hasn't either.

The ones in the ceiling fan in the bedroom are almost too bright. Can't mistake brown socks for blue at night with them, that's for sure.

No significant delay when turning them on.

I haven't found any yellow "bug light" versions for outside yet. I like those. Still having to use incandescents for that.
 
gismo said:
I took a look at that link but can find nothing that states the price.
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Contact one of the teams. I think they are $19.95 or something very close. They are a very high quality bulb, but the are trying to be competitive, too. The first versions (maybe three years ago) was not dimmable. The latest are.

When Dean Kamen came up with this idea, he was trying to come up with a FIRST equivalent to Girl Scout cookies, he wanted the quality and price to be ahead of the big box stores. Sergey Brin and Larry Page chipped in to make it happen.
 
I have couple over the fireplace mantle and one in a fixture going to the basement. If I dig up a job I'll replace everything I can with LED. Also have a couple in some of my driveway light fixtures. A few in the panel in the Warrior too.
 
I just put a 75 watt equivalent LED on the back porch -- a light we leave on 24/7/365. For what I paid, I'm hoping it lasts many years.:D
 
Jay Honeck said:
I just put a 75 watt equivalent LED on the back porch -- a light we leave on 24/7/365. For what I paid, I'm hoping it lasts many years.:D
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It'll last 3-4 times longer if you put a photocell base on it. Not much point using up it's life during the daytime.
 
gismo said:
It'll last 3-4 times longer if you put a photocell base on it. Not much point using up it's life during the daytime.
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Good idea. I've got a beer fridge on that circuit, so I can't turn that switch off. :D
 
JoeSelch said:
Feeling too lazy to dig it up ... what about kelvin? I absolutely hate blue light indoors (esp at night). So, what am I looking for in either LED (preferred) or CFL to mimic the "warm glow" of an incandescent?
Click to expand...

Philips (at least I think it is Philips) has just introduced a bulb that lets you adjust the color....

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
Just got a partial order of 14 10w Samsung LED's - they look like they are right around 75 watt equivalent or so in the cans -

Amazon sells them for $14 each from some seller in Arizona . . . they got here in 4 business days from the day of my order. Free shipping. They are brighter than the supposed 60w equivalent CFL's by quite a bit - went from 230w in the cans to 100w total. Those lights are on 4-5 hours a day or so - so its 15-16Kwh per month - its a couple dollars a month in savings . . . but they dim and are otherwise give a much nicer light than the CFLs.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Yeah, I've been watching these things as they develop. Talk about PERFECT in our hotel, no?

To be able to turn the lights (and fridge, and HVAC) on in a room remotely from the front office would be sweet.
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And the more evil that can be done if someone hacks into the system. Got any local hotel rivals with contacts in the hacker community, Jay? :)

"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier 'tis to stop up the drains."
- Montgomery Scott

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
And the more evil that can be done if someone hacks into the system. Got any local hotel rivals with contacts in the hacker community, Jay? :)

"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier 'tis to stop up the drains."
- Montgomery Scott

Ron Wanttaja
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Hee hee. Now that's an evil thought. :D
 
Jay Honeck said:
Hee hee. Now that's an evil thought. :D
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Just be subtle. Intermittent annoyingly flickering lights or ones that go on/off...very occasionally...especially when the repairman is not there to sort it out.
 
Sigh...

4-pack of 60W incandescents, $1.68 ($0.42/ea). 840 lumens, 2800K temp.

1 60W-equivalent LED bulb, $14.39. 850 lumens, 13.5 watts, 3000K temp.

6-pack of 60W-eqivalent CFL's, $3.00 ($0.50/ea), 870 lumens, 13 watts, 2700K temp.

I spend about $0.13/kWh for energy. So, it takes me about an hour and 38 minutes to save a penny with the CFL/LED. So, if we go for the easy math that it's on for about 5 hours a day, that's 3 cents a day.

So, the CFL's pay for themselves twice over in a week, while the LED's would take... About 15 months.

I did get one LED bulb, along with a six-pack of CFL's. LED comes on almost as fast as incandescent, CFL of course takes a second or two. I was surprised at how warm the electronics on the LED one got.
 
For a long time I've been stringing ALL lights inside the window frames in such ways that they can still be seen by outside viewers.

Inside the house, it's almost like having triple the lights from the dual pane reflections plus, ALL the energy is given off inside the house to warm it.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Yeah, I've been watching these things as they develop. Talk about PERFECT in our hotel, no?

To be able to turn the lights (and fridge, and HVAC) on in a room remotely from the front office would be sweet.
Click to expand...

Look at the WeMo. Not only being able to turn on appliances and lights, but able to do it remotely through the cloud.

A HUGE opportunity for mischief based on the way it sets up & works on the cloud.

flyingcheesehead said:
Sigh...

4-pack of 60W incandescents, $1.68 ($0.42/ea). 840 lumens, 2800K temp.

1 60W-equivalent LED bulb, $14.39. 850 lumens, 13.5 watts, 3000K temp.

6-pack of 60W-eqivalent CFL's, $3.00 ($0.50/ea), 870 lumens, 13 watts, 2700K temp.

I spend about $0.13/kWh for energy. So, it takes me about an hour and 38 minutes to save a penny with the CFL/LED. So, if we go for the easy math that it's on for about 5 hours a day, that's 3 cents a day.

So, the CFL's pay for themselves twice over in a week, while the LED's would take... About 15 months.

I did get one LED bulb, along with a six-pack of CFL's. LED comes on almost as fast as incandescent, CFL of course takes a second or two. I was surprised at how warm the electronics on the LED one got.
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I don't recall seeing CFLs that cheap, at least around here, but assumng that they are your math is correct. I've given up on CFL.

What I will tell you is that *in my experience* the CFLs have MUCH shorter lives that LED, and even shorter lives than many of my incadescents. I've had two go out with a puff of smoke - and one that toasted the lamp socket. CFL is useless in moist/damp environments (don't use 'em in outdoor or bathroom fixtures). You also can't use CFL with dimmers.
 
wsuffa said:
Look at the WeMo. Not only being able to turn on appliances and lights, but able to do it remotely through the cloud.

A HUGE opportunity for mischief based on the way it sets up & works on the cloud.



I don't recall seeing CFLs that cheap, at least around here, but assumng that they are your math is correct. I've given up on CFL.

What I will tell you is that *in my experience* the CFLs have MUCH shorter lives that LED, and even shorter lives than many of my incadescents. I've had two go out with a puff of smoke - and one that toasted the lamp socket. CFL is useless in moist/damp environments (don't use 'em in outdoor or bathroom fixtures). You also can't use CFL with dimmers.
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What Bill said.

I have also had several CFLs fail in such a way that they generated massive RF interference, bad enough that all power line remote devices (X-10 and equivalent) were rendered inop, and WiFi was substantially affected as well. Fact is, CFL lamps became the darlings of the "I'm Hollywood and you should do as I say" crowd a while back, and they have even crammed down our throats ever since. Foreign produced junk.
 
SCCutler said:
What Bill said.

I have also had several CFLs fail in such a way that they generated massive RF interference, bad enough that all power line remote devices (X-10 and equivalent) were rendered inop, and WiFi was substantially affected as well. Fact is, CFL lamps became the darlings of the "I'm Hollywood and you should do as I say" crowd a while back, and they have even crammed down our throats ever since. Foreign produced junk.
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I had one fail such that it browned and discolored it's base. I really don't like the idea of lightbulbs smoking when I'm not looking.

That said, LEDs do run fairly warm. The whole way to make bright LEDs is to cool them and that junction inside...
 
denverpilot said:
I had one fail such that it browned and discolored it's base. I really don't like the idea of lightbulbs smoking when I'm not looking.
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And we all know smoking is bad for your health.:D

That said, LEDs do run fairly warm. The whole way to make bright LEDs is to cool them and that junction inside...
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The "whole" way???

LED life expectancy is very much affected by junction temperature, which is in turn related to input power divided by efficiency. Typically if you cut the power in half for a LED it's life will go up by a factor of four.
 
Heh... To make them bright enough to usefully fill a room with light, yeah... The limiting factor is cooling. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Heh... To make them bright enough to usefully fill a room with light, yeah... The limiting factor is cooling. ;)
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Actually there are several limiting factors. At some point the photon flux becomes large enough to physically damage the crystalline structure although AFaIK this isn't an issue for today's LEDs (it is for laser diodes) but it probably will be eventually. A very related factor is the material's ability to withstand higher temperatures. At one time 90-100°C was considered the upper limit but there are semiconductor materials in use today that can go upwards of 150°C without rapid degradation. And then there's the efficiency (or more accurately "luminous efficacy") issue. Today's LEDs are approaching 20% of the theoretical maximum and I've heard of laboratory devices reaching more than twice that. If you double the luminous efficacy of a LED you get the same amount of light with half the total power but the real decrease in heat is way better than that. Take a LED that requires 10 watts of electric power to produce 1.5W of light and replace it with one that's twice as efficient. Now you only need to feed it with 5W and the heat output has been reduced from 8.5W to 3.5W (70% of 5W). That's a 60% reduction in heat and a similar reduction in LED die temperature.
 
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