Who here has accidentally stalled a plane?

I remember having to make a trip around the pattern with the ASI covered when I was getting checked out in the Arrow years ago. Power settings and attitude didn't change. Sounds help, too.

For some reason, this doesn't seem to be taught much in aviation circles, but every astronomer knows it. You have an attitude indicator attached to you at all times. One finger held at arm's length is about one degree. The palm of your hand is about five degrees, the short way across.

Adjust your seat so the angle between glare shield and nose is the same every time (I use 2 deg -- two fingers on top of the glare shield). Then, you can use your fingers to measure pitch angle accurately, in VFR conditions with no AI, referenced to the nose.
 
I tried opening my flight plan while I was still talking to the tower :)

That's been happening since Marconi put the first radio in the first plane.:lol:
 
And the reason the non-standard phraseology "push the button" has been used by ATC controllers ever since.

That's been happening since Marconi put the first radio in the first plane.:lol:
 
How is my above post, a post from a man who as the attitude you think I have?

I am opinionated. Almost all pilots are. I posted this thread so someone could change my opinion, because I knew it didn't make sense for my opinion to be right, and CFI's still train to it.

But "everyone does it, so it must be right" is never good enough for me. I want to know why.

Sorry if that makes you think I think I know it all. You don't like me. I get it. But can you not start chasing me from thread to thread and insulting me? I think this is the third thread you have done it in.
When you are still a student, with what really amounts to nil time, being opinionated is an obstacle. You need to have a student approach to things- you dont', you declare what you believe, which as far as anyone can see, has about zero basis in reality.

Well, "everyone does it...." but you know better. Right.

After about 5,000 hours you can be opinionated. Some say 10,000. But not until you have about 100 XC under your belt and maybe have signed off a few students.....

YOU asked the question, I provided a real answer, it happened and you just didn't like the intrusion on your belief bubble.
 
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I've never stalled, thank goodness, but I came close a couple of times.

First time, it was windy and gusty, and on final approach, a gust smacked the airplane up and the stall horn chirped. Got the nose down and speed back up before it back an issue. "Ah yes, my instructor mentioned carrying a bit more speed on final if it's gusty", is what i recalled after I landed.

Second time, I was watching a cockpit video of me landing on a calm day. The stall horn in this 172 made a low, moaning sound right before it actually starts blaring. In the video, you can clearly hear the pre-stall horn sound for most of the final approach. I don't think the danger was too serious but since then I carry another 5 knots on final to increase the safety margin.
 
Might want to review the POH before you do that. Or maybe remove whatever piece of **** is in the stall horn opening. 5 extra knots "just because" is a recipe for float. It can make a lot of difference, especially at low flap settings and with short runways. And if it's gusty out, overdoing that gives the wind more chance to do bad things really close to the ground. It's not safer.
 
Ever had honeycomb in one of those Cessna stall horns that's just a hole in the leading edge?

Man, digging that crap out without taking it off with a Leatherman without a stepladder, sucks.

Damn bugs.
 
When you are still a student, with what really amounts to nil time, being opinionated is an obstacle. You need to have a student approach to things- you dont', you declare what you believe, which as far as anyone can see, has about zero basis in reality.

Well, "everyone does it...." but you know better. Right.

After about 5,000 hours you can be opinionated. Some say 10,000. But not until you have about 100 XC under your belt and maybe have signed off a few students.....

YOU asked the question, I provided a real answer, it happened and you just didn't like the intrusion on your belief bubble.

Because of this thread, I know more about stalls. To just take the answers without challenge, means in the end, I will know less.

And sorry to bust your bubble, but you were late to the game. I was already educated on my flawed logic. Not sure how I had already changed my mind before you entered this thread due to the real answers, yet you feel I am upset about the "real answer".

You think I am some young know it all who won't listen to others. You couldn't be further from the truth.
 
Man, digging that crap out without taking it off with a Leatherman without a stepladder, sucks.

Yow, that sounds unpleasant. I hope the honeycomb was at least unoccupied....

You can often borrow a stepladder from the fuel truck, self serve fuel island, or washrack.
 
Yow, that sounds unpleasant. I hope the honeycomb was at least unoccupied....

You can often borrow a stepladder from the fuel truck, self serve fuel island, or washrack.

Heck... even a 5 gallon bucket up side down is better then being on your tippie toes...:yes:
 
Heck... even a 5 gallon bucket up side down is better then being on your tippie toes...:yes:

It was a loooooong walk across the ramp and I'm 5' 11" so I just dealt with it. Was just hard to see if I got all of it.

Not my airplane by the way. Was a rental quite some time ago.

Was kinda surprised to find the whole darn stall "hole" filled with honeycomb material. The more interesting part was that it was dried out and had been there a while. So who knows how many pilots had flown that airplane with an inaccurate stall warning device.

Picking it out was entertaining for the first few minutes, annoying for the next few as the broken chunks got smaller, and I was downright ticked getting that last little piece that kept falling out of the needle nose part of the Leatherman.
 
Like Tony a couple of pages ago, many times.
I'm assuming Tony's commenting on glider flying. When you're yanking and banking and trying hard to core a turbulent thermal, it happens. It's a good demonstration both of the exponentially higher stall speeds in steeper banks and the AoA excursions that turbulence can cause.

Yet another reason that flying gliders can improve one's stick and rudder skills.

yes, when thermalling. some days its just one stall after another. usually after the first few flights of the year i re-learn how to make the thing climb.
 
I stalled by accident only once: practicing MCA flight between my failed checkride and my successful checkride. My instructor was along and I was turning to a new heading while maintaining the slow flight. I wasn't coordinated and bang! down went the right wing. It _felt_ like it went vertical, but I know it didn't. I recovered about 400-500 feet lower. My instructor never said a word.

It really startled me.
John
 
You can stall accidentally, so be careful. When you are turning base to final, if you are skidding, the airspeed indicator is not accurate. When winds are gusty, the wind direction can change very rapidly (faster than your airplane can accommodate because of momentum) and you can stall. If you pull to hard too quickly, you can stall (snap rolls you see in airshows are done that way). Not to beat a dead horse, but keep reading and learning to stay safe. There is a LOT to learn, but it is fun and challenging.
 
You can stall accidentally, so be careful. When you are turning base to final, if you are skidding, the airspeed indicator is not accurate. When winds are gusty, the wind direction can change very rapidly (faster than your airplane can accommodate because of momentum) and you can stall. If you pull to hard too quickly, you can stall (snap rolls you see in airshows are done that way). Not to beat a dead horse, but keep reading and learning to stay safe. There is a LOT to learn, but it is fun and challenging.

Thanks, I will watch out for this. This would be a good reason to default all traffic to left traffic (if either way was equally viable). Less likely to stall if you get sloppy.
 
You think I am some young know it all who won't listen to others. You couldn't be further from the truth.
the sting about GPS in which you posted 30% of the posts is all I need. QED.

Do you even have 100 hours? Any real solo XC time? I don't think so.
 
I haven't accidently stalled, but the stall indicator (light) on the cherokee was blazing like crazy and performance sucked.. Want to guess why?

The door popped, it didn't distract me a bit. but the Airspeed indicator was no where close to accurate with it popped, it was reading high. So I did waht I was supposed to do.. Instead of climbing out at IAS 85, I pushed the nose down and climbed out at 105. Stall horn went off, VSI went up, all ended well..
But I really didn't figure out the corrilation until after the fact. I felt it sluggish, saw the light and pushed the nose down immediately. (probably at 200AGL).
 
Most of my time is in Cherokees and Cessnas of various flavors, but I've got time in a pretty wide range of aircraft, from Cubs to Lockheed Constellations. (Hey -- it was only 0.3 hours, but it was a very INTENSE 0.3 hours! :lol:)

There are two things I've never understood.

1. Accidentally stalling.

2. Accidentally spinning.

To me, the aircraft starts SCREAMING "We're too slow!" anywhere near stall speed. And a spin? Modern (post 1960) certificated aircraft have to be darned near forced at gunpoint to spin. I'm not sure how anyone accidentally spins one, but they have to do #1 before #2, so there you go.

(Now, all bets are off with anything older. Some really old planes will snap without much warning or provocation, but few of us fly those types anymore.)

So, to the OP -- nope, I've never accidentally stalled a plane. Done lots of them, but all of them were purposeful.
 
Thanks, I will watch out for this. This would be a good reason to default all traffic to left traffic (if either way was equally viable). Less likely to stall if you get sloppy.

Which way are most aircraft easier to spin? ;)
 
I'm not sure how anyone accidentally spins one,...

Skidding turns to final, power off, usually... judging by the accident reports. Stomp on that low rudder and pull back. Think the world is hunky-dorey because the nose is slightly below the horizon. Done.
 
Skidding turns to final, power off, usually... judging by the accident reports. Stomp on that low rudder and pull back. Think the world is hunky-dorey because the nose is slightly below the horizon. Done.

I've simulated that scenario at altitude, and I just don't get it. The plane does NOT like this configuration, and unless you're completely oblivious to all sensory input, it literally screams at you to stop.

I suppose when it happens at 400' AGL you don't get much of a chance to ponder your poor technique, but the easy answer to that is to do what I've done -- climb to 3000' on a nice, sunny day, and go try to stall yourself in a base-to-final turn. It's surprisingly hard to do -- and yet guys do it accidentally on a regular basis. :dunno:
 
Yeah. I didn't say it was easy. If you're paying attention the airplane should be sending you all sorts of signals before a spin break in a typical spam can.
 
I've read the responses to this thread with a bit of unease. As I posted earlier, I *have* accidentally stalled. Sitting here thinking about it, I realized it happened 41 years ago this month.

But it's not the memory of the stall itself that makes me uneasy. It's the attitude of some of my fellow pilots here. I see too many statements like:

1. I keep my airspeed up, so it can't happen to me.
2. I'm attuned to the airplane, so it can't happen to me.
3. My airplane has a gentle stall, so even if it happens, it'll be minor.

I would have expressed the same opinions 41 years ago. Only the fact that the stall happened at ~2000 AGL meant that I'm alive today to explain it. The basic cause was stupidity; I'm sure no one here is going to duplicate my actions. The important thing I want folks to understand is the suddenness and *surprise* of the thing.

The airplane was a Champion 7ECA...the first Citabria. These were basically Champs with 100-115 HP engines; no fancy acro features. The airframes weren't even rated to +6/-3 Gs; they were aerobatic under the old CAR standard.

I had just received my Private license in Champ 60Golf, the local CAP aircraft. I had 80 hours total, all but the first 15 in 60Golf. It took me 80 hours not (just) because I was dense, but because I had packed a lot of flying in before I was age-eligible for the Private checkride. It was like I'd lived most of the year in the cockpit; the plane was a tube-and-fabric limb graft. No question I was comfortable in her.

The flight was my first after passing my Private checkride on October 6th. The passenger was a fellow cadet, my best friend, who was getting ready to start lessons in the same aircraft. I had earned free flying time by performing janitorial work for the local CAP headquarters, and my buddy was taking over the job so he could get some time as well.

It happened during a very complex maneuver: A left turn.

During my solo flying, I'd gotten into the bad habit of doing steep, fast, 90-degree turns by dropping a wing and hauling back hard on the stick. It was fun, and I offered to do one for my friend. He said, "Sure!"

Down went the left wing, back came the stick.

Undoubtedly, the plane was heavier (it's not like I ever did this with an instructor onboard). The CG was undoubtedly further aft. And, quite possibly, I pulled extra hard to show off.

It got about a quarter through, and WHAM!

"Wham" is an inadequate term. All of a sudden, my tube-and-fabric cocoon turned into a snarling she-dervish. The horizon flicked inverted in front of my disbelieving eyes, quickly being replaced by whirling green as the Champ went over the top into an upright spin.

Please note: The maneuver had started at cruise power and airspeed. There was no "laboring" or "warning" prior to the spin. I added loading quickly, but it's like what might happen if you suddenly spotted a bird or even conflicting traffic during a base-to-final turn. I had flown this airplane ~65 hours in the preceding six months, including ~20 hours of instruction (including acro). And it wasn't just a gentle little nose drop, it was a completely unexpected snap roll into a spin.

As I mentioned, this happened at altitude. I popped the stick forward, jammed the right rudder, and pulled back to level flight. My back, against the vinyl seat back, suddenly was drenched in sweat.

We flew in silence for about fifteen seconds. Then my friend said, "Uhh...that wasn't just a turn, was it?"

We flew real careful, after that.

There's an old saying, attributed to Mark Twain, along the lines of, "A man who has tried to put a bobcat into a gunny sack knows more than the man who hasn't." The biggest lesson I learned (other than not being stupid) was how suddenly it happened (little or no warning), and how OUT OF CONTROL the airplane becomes.

So please, don't get into that smug "It can't happen to me" mode. Keep alert, and always remember that if the airplane decides to bite, it will bite harder than you could dream.

Ron Wanttaja
 
I stalled on take off after an engine out in an ultra light. :eek:

I was not quick enough on the stick to get the nose down 30' AGL. I hit the ground pretty hard and damaged the landing gear. It was a turning point in my flying career. :lol:

It is amazing how fast things happen when you are in denial. :nono:
 
So please, don't get into that smug "It can't happen to me" mode. Keep alert, and always remember that if the airplane decides to bite, it will bite harder than you could dream.

Ron Wanttaja

Amen to that.

The typical training "power-on-stall" is nowhere near anything that may happen in real life. The high nose attitude, slow airspeed, light load, all contribute to the illusion that you have to get really out of whack to get a stall with the throttle all the way in.

Tain't necessarily true.

I try to keep in mind that any aircraft can be stalled in any attitude and at any airspeed. Even nose down, with a full throttle. AOA is the controlling factor.
 
You are getting a biased sample. The accidentally departure stalled an airplane folks aren't able to answer the question.
 
I'm willing to bet that your event is similar that of many other pilots who found themselves in an "oh shlt" moment due to inexperience or bad habit, and that changed their attitude about flying airplanes.

Mine was an over-run (not much, but off the concrete counts no matter how far) that didn't bend anything but required a 180 in the grass to get back on the runway. Like many other inexperienced pilots I carried the extra five knots (maybe a tad more), landed long and didn't pay sufficient attention to the mushy brakes on a ragged-out trainer. No mas.

I stalled on take off after an engine out in an ultra light. :eek:

I was not quick enough on the stick to get the nose down 30' AGL. I hit the ground pretty hard and damaged the landing gear. It was a turning point in my flying career. :lol:

It is amazing how fast things happen when you are in denial. :nono:
 
Ok so after reading many of the responses here I started to wonder about how many people actually stall there airplane not from getting to slow and not paying attention, but from "Playing around" or getting to aggressive with the airplane and getting into an accelerated stall.

This would be a maneuver that is usually not taught or demonstrated until the CFI ride, but seems like many new or young pilot like to try and "Test" the limits of there craft at some point.

Could be interesting if you were trying to be a fighter pilot down low and really got aggressive.

Should we be teaching this maneuver? Much of the discussion about the stalls relate to being slow, just wanted to interject a different perspective.

Have any of you actually done this accidentally? Other than Ron
Cheers
 
So please, don't get into that smug "It can't happen to me" mode. Keep alert, and always remember that if the airplane decides to bite, it will bite harder than you could dream.

Ron Wanttaja

What you describe is exactly why I put the "on a modern airframe" caveat in my comments. Older aircraft, not certified to modern standards, have the well-deserved reputation and ability to snap without much provocation.

Although it sounds like you may have provoked it pretty good. :D

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
Earlier in my training I was distracted during a messed up approach and rather than jam the throttle in, I briefly fixated as my airspeed dropped and the stall warning horn went into high gear. I imagine I was just a few knots from the stall when the horn snapped me out of it and I throttled up for a go around.

This was in a 1979 Cessna 152, and there were no secondary indications of stall. I was solo (obviously) and the aircraft was light, but that's as close as I ever want to have the buffer.

I'm pretty chicken, so I do not see myself exceeding a 30 degree bank unless I was trying to avoid a collision. I'd like to think that steep turn training gave me good habits to put some power in when I'm banking, but I can see how pilots would either fixate / get distracted on approach (like I just mentioned) or try to overbank / push a bit hard on a turn when fixated on a goal.

It seems to me that, not lack of knowledge, but lack of awareness due to fixation, determination, and / or an attitude of invulnerability is what would put me and has put me in a position where I'm dangerously close to unintended stall.
 
I stalled over the runway in a M20J once. I only had about 2 hours in type and about 25hrs in Piper Arrows at this point. I was landing at night and the landing light was INOP. I have no problem pitching the plane for 71-75kt ish on final but on this particular landing, I had flared too high above the runway (but didn't know it yet). I was in the flare, power off, speed bleeding off, stall warning tone, flaps all the way down, stick back, trimmed pitching up...

Suddenly I feel the nose drop what felt like 10 degrees and the plane landed on the nose gear first, then the mains. No porpoise, no prop strike, but I felt terrible about it.
 
What you describe is exactly why I put the "on a modern airframe" caveat in my comments. Older aircraft, not certified to modern standards, have the well-deserved reputation and ability to snap without much provocation.

Yes, but: The handling requirements back then were often *stricter* than today. IIRC, the modern requirements that an aircraft recover from a spin within XXX turns of starting recovery. I believe the glorified Champ I was flying was required to recover itself UNLESS the pilot maintained in-spin controls.

Remember, too, that your Piper wasn't built to modern Part 23 standards. the PA-28 series was certified almost 50 years ago.

Complacency, Jay. Don't get thinking that your modern flyin' machine is going to save you if you mess up. Imagine it's hiding behind the corner with a chain saw and a shoemaker's awl.

Although it sounds like you may have provoked it pretty good. :D

Just a weeeee bit.

Actually, I got reminded of the second time I stalled inadvertently. Me and another Fly Baby driver were flying along, minding our own business, when we got bounced by an RV-3. Couldn't let that ride... "Pour l'honneur du pavillon," and all that. I turned into him and the fight was on.
gunsite.GIF


At one point I was horsing the Fly Baby around in a tight right turn and the airplane just....stopped. I had a steep bank and the stick back in my gut, but the plane just kinda hung there. I pushed the stick forward, pushed left rudder to pick up the wing, and was flying again. The RV had headed for home, no doubt to polish out the pipper burns on his aft turtledeck.

Dunno why it didn't snap, or otherwise bite, especially since was flying one of them dangerous experimentals. Likely, I happened to have the ball centered when it happened.


Ron Wanttaja
 
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Ok so after reading many of the responses here I started to wonder about how many people actually stall there airplane not from getting to slow and not paying attention, but from "Playing around" or getting to aggressive with the airplane and getting into an accelerated stall.

No, we SURVIVED because we were (for the most part) smart enough to be high enough for our fooling around. As many have mentioned, inadvertent mistakes too often happen at low altitude, where the pilot doesn't have a chance to recover.

The classic case is an overshot the base-to-final turn... just a liiittttleee more pull, and you can catch the centerline. You're not thinking of stalling, you're thinking of your airsick passenger, the meeting you're trying to catch, or just the fact that your buddies will rib you if you have to go around ("Better to die than look bad around the boat"). A bit more pull, and you're suddenly looking at a windshield full of ground. Happens all the time, literally.

Or you suddenly realize another plane had taken-off in the opposite direction and is closing on you. You tighten the turn to avoid him...and bang! you've snapped over the top.

The whole point of these stories is not to give examples of how one can outrage the airplane and provoke bad behavior. The point is that pilots don't really understand how UGLY these situations can be, and how quickly they can arise with the least inattention. "Even a man who is pure of heart, and says his prayers at night...." can get bitten by ANY airplane. Don't fall into the "It won't happen to me, I'm too good to let it happen" trap.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Ok so after reading many of the responses here I started to wonder about how many people actually stall there airplane not from getting to slow and not paying attention, but from "Playing around" or getting to aggressive with the airplane and getting into an accelerated stall.

This would be a maneuver that is usually not taught or demonstrated until the CFI ride, but seems like many new or young pilot like to try and "Test" the limits of there craft at some point.

Could be interesting if you were trying to be a fighter pilot down low and really got aggressive.

Should we be teaching this maneuver? Much of the discussion about the stalls relate to being slow, just wanted to interject a different perspective.

Have any of you actually done this accidentally? Other than Ron
Cheers

Accelerated stalls were part of my glider training. :dunno:
 
Ok so after reading many of the responses here I started to wonder about how many people actually stall there airplane not from getting to slow and not paying attention, but from "Playing around" or getting to aggressive with the airplane and getting into an accelerated stall.

This would be a maneuver that is usually not taught or demonstrated until the CFI ride, but seems like many new or young pilot like to try and "Test" the limits of there craft at some point.

Could be interesting if you were trying to be a fighter pilot down low and really got aggressive.

Should we be teaching this maneuver? Much of the discussion about the stalls relate to being slow, just wanted to interject a different perspective.

Have any of you actually done this accidentally? Other than Ron
Cheers

Well, if you're paying attention you release back pressure. You have to try even harder to f- it up because an accelerated stall is instantly recovering. Teach everything, stalls, spins, falling leaf stalls, all of it. Don't let the bottom of the envelope catch them by surprise, make them comfortable with it.
 
Well, if you're paying attention you release back pressure. You have to try even harder to f- it up because an accelerated stall is instantly recovering. Teach everything, stalls, spins, falling leaf stalls, all of it. Don't let the bottom of the envelope catch them by surprise, make them comfortable with it.
Sure I know how they work and how to recover, I also am in agreement that it should all be taught so that they will know how to do it. I was just wanting to know if anyone had ever "accidentally" done it. Just as the OP.
 
Sure I know how they work and how to recover, I also am in agreement that it should all be taught so that they will know how to do it. I was just wanting to know if anyone had ever "accidentally" done it. Just as the OP.

Yeah, well, not accidentally but operationally I'd do a lot of it on pipeline collection fields. You just yank and bank till she kicks and screams and give her back some reigns. Any plane will let you know before it stalls, and with an accelerated stall, unless you have a high speed issue, is a complete non problem. The only people who have a problem With stalls are shock responders like in AF 447, and the problem was they did not understand they were stalled.
 
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I was just wanting to know if anyone had ever "accidentally" done it. Just as the OP.

Short final, gusty winds right down the runway, flying over a grove of trees with a small, round clearing in the middle. I was at 60 kts in a C-150. Stall horn blared and the nose suddenly dropped towards the ground. I pushed and the aircraft recovered quickly and I landed safely. The wind close to the ground or with ground obstructions can do unexpected things. That was my point. It doesn't always have to be someone showing off. The airplane deserves a pilot doing his job, and the airplane will do its job. Let's not let our airplanes down.
 
I don't know if it was accidental or not but I do remember landing the Maule one day when it was particularly windy. I had landed and rolled to a stop on the runway but the stall warning was still beeping.

Luckily it was just a gust.
 
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