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Old September 27th, 2013, 04:32 PM   #1
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Thumbs down Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

So when our Cessna 0-470-R continental is ready, which one would you use? The Pponk super eagle 0-470-50 conversion? Or the Texas Skyways 0-520-F/TS upgrade? I know they have an STC for an IO-550 now, but that's too much $$$$.

The Skyways 0-520-F/TS engine has 500 more TBO than the Pponk. I have not priced any of this with either Pponk or T.S., so I may be comparing apples to oranges.

Any other alternatives? I'd like to hear from y'all and anyone who's done this. Something bigger is definitely going up in the squirrel cage when it's time.... Maybe RR or somebody will come up with a 300h.p. $40,000.00 turbine or diesel between now and then, but I doubt it.

Thanks in advance.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #2
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

I would Pponk, because I can use my own engine (modified)

Last I looked the Texas skyways was only a new engine ($$$)
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Old September 27th, 2013, 04:35 PM   #3
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

I have the -50 with 3-blade. Amazingly smooth.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 04:39 PM   #4
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylane81E View Post
I would Pponk, because I can use my own engine (modified)

Last I looked the Texas skyways was only a new engine ($$$)

That confirms what I thought. It's a factory new 0-520 right?

I guess that's why the extra 500 TBO.

If that's the case, I could buy a new one and put it in here. Ron and me could do it cheaper than them I'll bet.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #5
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Originally Posted by wabower View Post
I have the -50 with 3-blade. Amazingly smooth.

I just upgraded to the two blade MT for this purpose. For my 180, it was a perfect fit. It shaved 11 pounds off the foremost CG station, which is huge, and you can feel it. And being composite, the MT is lighter, and spins up faster. It also spins down faster. When you pull the throttle, it's like you dropped anchor.

The 0-470 is a little light in the ass for a three blade, but it mates with the two blade like butter on bread. And when you upgrade, the two blade MT can handle anything you throw at it. So that's why I went with a two blade. So I can have my cake now, and eat it later too.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 04:44 PM   #6
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Originally Posted by txflyer View Post
That confirms what I thought. It's a factory new 0-520 right?

I guess that's why the extra 500 TBO.

If that's the case, I could buy a new one and put it in here. Ron and me could do it cheaper than them I'll bet.
Extra TBO is because of the "total drain" oil pan, they have an STC (only available with the engine swap) to put a drain on the low point of the sump, rather than to the side.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #7
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Originally Posted by Skylane81E View Post
Extra TBO is because of the "total drain" oil pan, they have an STC (only available with the engine swap) to put a drain on the low point of the sump, rather than to the side.

Thanks Duncan. I didn't know that, and was not clear on that.

Makes it convenient for them to hold that STC.

What's to stop a man from welding/relocating his own sump I wonder then...?
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Old September 27th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #8
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Originally Posted by txflyer View Post
Thanks Duncan. I didn't know that, and was not clear on that.

Makes it convenient for them to hold that STC.

What's to stop a man from welding/relocating his own sump I wonder then...?
No STC
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Old September 27th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #9
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

i'd go to Air Plains
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Old September 27th, 2013, 10:46 PM   #10
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Originally Posted by Skylane81E View Post
No STC
It doesn't need one, the sump is not a major structural component of the engine, as in a major alteration.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 11:23 PM   #11
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

PPonk it
Cost is about the same as an engine overhaul, unlike TS
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Old September 28th, 2013, 01:08 AM   #12
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Originally Posted by moonshine View Post
PPonk it
Cost is about the same as an engine overhaul, unlike TS

That's what I figured since that's what everybody does.

One thing I'm learning about airplanes is sometimes it's better to swim with the salmon, even if it's not the uber gizmo you want ......
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Old September 28th, 2013, 01:10 AM   #13
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

Every skywagon owner I know (all two of them) who have the super eagle conversion, are happier than a pig in ****.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 01:22 AM   #14
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-D View Post
It doesn't need one, the sump is not a major structural component of the engine, as in a major alteration.
Won't buy you the extra TBO time though
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Old September 28th, 2013, 02:00 AM   #15
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Originally Posted by Skylane81E View Post
Won't buy you the extra TBO time though

It would be a good upgrade if you could put one on a Pponk 0-470-50.

Draining every drop of old oil sounds good to me, and maybe worth the effort if it can be done.

The tail low stance of the skywagon lends itself to a drain plug right in the back center bottom of the sump. Every drop would come out then.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 10:45 AM   #16
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Originally Posted by txflyer View Post
It would be a good upgrade if you could put one on a Pponk 0-470-50.

Draining every drop of old oil sounds good to me, and maybe worth the effort if it can be done.

The tail low stance of the skywagon lends itself to a drain plug right in the back center bottom of the sump. Every drop would come out then.
It won't hurt with out a doubt, and I think that the extra time you get with it is more likely an indication of how long the engine actually lasts with good care. So far I've been involved with the OH of a whopping thee engines before TBO. One was prop struck with only about 150hrs left, made sence to do it wile the insurance company was paying for the removal and tear down anyway, second was the same engine when a starter mount stud stripped out of the case and a helicoil repair wasn't possible. Again it was just before TBO, so let's do it while it's apart anyway. Third was a plane going on the market with an engine about 200hrs left, done for marketing reasons.

There have been others that needed fairly major work prior to TBO, hell one that never flies is on its third set of jugs in 500hrs due to rust and on 135 planes calendar time comes in too
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Old September 28th, 2013, 11:00 AM   #17
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

Guiding principles:

Only one what can get a Mogas STC.

I'd almost ignore TBO times, as 91 ops it is a non issue. You will fix/replace it as needed by condition.

Do both options include porting, balancing or blue printing the rebuild?
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Old September 28th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #18
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylane81E View Post
Won't buy you the extra TBO time though
For private use... who cares? Maybe will help resale value if that's what you are after... otherwise the owner determines TBO
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Old September 28th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #19
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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For private use... who cares? Maybe will help resale value if that's what you are after... otherwise the owner determines TBO
Yep!!
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Old September 28th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #20
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Originally Posted by Skylane81E View Post
Won't buy you the extra TBO time though
Is he 135? If not it's irrelevant.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 12:14 PM   #21
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylane81E View Post
Won't buy you the extra TBO time though
True, but if you're part 91 it may buy you some extra life, which is even more important.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 12:50 PM   #22
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?
Can either legally burn MoGas?

Might be something to consider if ethanol free MoGas is available in your area. I've saved enough money during my current 1,100 hour run of my O470L to pay for about 1/2 of the overhaul (I average about 50% MoGas).

And...

It's still running strong...
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Old September 28th, 2013, 12:53 PM   #23
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Can either legally burn MoGas?
Nope, no MoGas STC for either
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Old September 28th, 2013, 05:07 PM   #24
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

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Nope, no MoGas STC for either

Damnit, there's always a catch. I just assumed since the super eagle keep's your carburetor, I could retain my Mogas status. My plane's approved for it.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 06:28 PM   #25
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Re: Engine upgrade: To Pponk or Texas Skyways?

Quote:
Originally Posted by txflyer View Post
Damnit, there's always a catch.
note the italicized word in my question.
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