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Maintenance Bay Looking for a good mechanic? Got a question about changing a landing light or installing a new radio? Any mechanical questions you've got, someone here probably has an answer for you!

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Old February 4th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #26
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

The re-rigging will have to potential to cause more problems than the corroded turnbuckles. I saw a picture of one of the corroded swaged ends. It wasn't hard to see there was a problem.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 10:32 PM   #27
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

They left the PA-25 off the list. We just replaced our elevator cable last year after finding it almost frayed through, when we were doing different work in the area. In the PA-25, it's fully exposed inside the fuselage.
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Old February 4th, 2013, 10:41 PM   #28
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikea View Post
From the AOPA Avaition eBrief::



Aren't the cables checked at annual anyway?
One of the commentators in the AD requested withdrawal of the AD based on that. the FAA said, "we disagree'.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 12:56 AM   #29
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTIZ View Post
They left the PA-25 off the list. We just replaced our elevator cable last year after finding it almost frayed through, when we were doing different work in the area. In the PA-25, it's fully exposed inside the fuselage.
it's also pretty hard to miss. BTW ours was the same. cable corrosion is a common complaint in ag planes and pawnee's in particular.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 08:07 AM   #30
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

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Originally Posted by bbchien View Post
One of the commentators in the AD requested withdrawal of the AD based on that. the FAA said, "we disagree'.
From the Avweb article:
Quote:
[Piper spokeswoman Jackie] Carlon said the problems should have been caught during the normal annual inspections
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:17 AM   #31
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbchien View Post
One of the commentators in the AD requested withdrawal of the AD based on that. the FAA said, "we disagree'.
A big part of the problem are pencil whip annuals. A lot of planes have the "walk around and an oil change" annual so little details such as frayed and corroded cables get missed. So after several cables have been found out of tolerance the FAA is mandating an AD to attempt to rectify the situation. However what the FAA is missing is these same IA's that are pencil whipping will just pencil whip the AD as well.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #32
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

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Originally Posted by RotorAndWing View Post
A big part of the problem are pencil whip annuals. A lot of planes have the "walk around and an oil change" annual so little details such as frayed and corroded cables get missed. So after several cables have been found out of tolerance the FAA is mandating an AD to attempt to rectify the situation. However what the FAA is missing is these same IA's that are pencil whipping will just pencil whip the AD as well.
Yup. Apparently no one payed attention to the mandatory SB. After 10 years they are still having problems, so they have to make it an AD. My guess is that it still will not be complied with properly.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:47 AM   #33
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

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Originally Posted by flyingmoose View Post
Yup. Apparently no one payed attention to the mandatory SB. After 10 years they are still having problems, so they have to make it an AD. My guess is that it still will not be complied with properly.

Not every IA can pay for access to all the Service Bulletins. Who knows if the owner was aware, requested or denied compliance with them.


IMHO each owner should have thier own up to date maintenance manuals, parts manuals and current SB listing for thier airplane, especially if they if they are going to complain about $2k annuals on the 4 seat single engine fixed gear, and take them to the bargin shop to save $500.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:51 AM   #34
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

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Originally Posted by RotorAndWing View Post
A big part of the problem are pencil whip annuals. A lot of planes have the "walk around and an oil change" annual so little details such as frayed and corroded cables get missed. So after several cables have been found out of tolerance the FAA is mandating an AD to attempt to rectify the situation. However what the FAA is missing is these same IA's that are pencil whipping will just pencil whip the AD as well.

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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:54 AM   #35
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

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Originally Posted by bnt83 View Post
Not every IA can pay for access to all the Service Bulletins........
The IA should get out of the business if he/she cannot and will not get all pertinent data for any airframe they are performing mechanical work on....

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Old February 5th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #36
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorAndWing View Post
A big part of the problem are pencil whip annuals. A lot of planes have the "walk around and an oil change" annual so little details such as frayed and corroded cables get missed. So after several cables have been found out of tolerance the FAA is mandating an AD to attempt to rectify the situation. However what the FAA is missing is these same IA's that are pencil whipping will just pencil whip the AD as well.
From Piper SB 1245A:

Quote:
Existing Instructions for Continued Airworthiness (i.e., the appropriate PiperMaintenance Manual and associated Service Publications) include an inspection of all flight control pulleys, cables, fittings and turnbuckles on a recurring basis. However, service history suggests that over time, the turnbuckles used in the stabilator flight control cable system may develop cracks or corrosion which may not be detected during these inspections.
In other words this is something abnormal. It is not normal procedure during annual inspections to disassemble the control cable turnbuckles for intense examination under a magnifying glass. Furthermore, why is such an inspection required only on specific Piper models and only on stab control cables?

Now you can harp about this being a "Mandatory" Service Bulletin but do you really want to open that box? Do you want every IA out there to insist that EVERY factory service instruction be fully complied with in order to pass an annual? Think about it and do a bit of research before piping up because, in most cases, you will be appalled by the burden you are undertaking.

Finally, as to "pencil whipped" annuals let me just say that there is no owner out there receiving such "service" that doesn't fully know it, whether he wants to admit it or not. So you can call the attack dogs off the A&P's.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:29 PM   #37
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvaire View Post
From Piper SB 1245A:
In other words this is something abnormal. It is not normal procedure during annual inspections to disassemble the control cable turnbuckles for intense examination under a magnifying glass. Furthermore, why is such an inspection required only on specific Piper models and only on stab control cables?

Now you can harp about this being a "Mandatory" Service Bulletin but do you really want to open that box? Do you want every IA out there to insist that EVERY factory service instruction be fully complied with in order to pass an annual? Think about it and do a bit of research before piping up because, in most cases, you will be appalled by the burden you are undertaking.
This has been a known problem as highlighted in the MSB. It is indeed the owner's discretion to comply with such SB's.

On the other hand the person doing the annual inspection (IA) should avail himself the knowledge of the aircraft and it's particular AD's, SB's and MSB's. The IA should discuss with the owner about complying with the items and the importance of doing so, and if the owner refuses then at least the IA should have the owner sign a statement listing the SB's and that the owner acknowledges that he is not complying with said SB's.

It's basic CYA, because when something does go bad the owners will typically look to blame the maintenance provider.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvaire View Post
Finally, as to "pencil whipped" annuals let me just say that there is no owner out there receiving such "service" that doesn't fully know it, whether he wants to admit it or not. So you can call the attack dogs off the A&P's.
There are far more pencil whip annuals taking place than people want to admit. There are also IA's out there with less than stellar backgrounds that will do the minimum to maximize profits. This is why it pays to do research and find a maintenance provider that knows what he is doing and has the background and knowledge to provide such a service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvaire View Post
So you can call the attack dogs off the A&P's.
BTW, I hold an A&P with IA. Welcome to the Church of the Painful Truth.
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Last edited by RotorAndWing; February 5th, 2013 at 10:31 PM.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 10:34 PM   #38
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

My airplane is 50 years old, but the cables are only 2 years old.
Just scanning the AD, I saw no mention about the age of the cables, just the airframe. Am I safe to assume that because my cables and turnbuckles are only 2 years old, I still have 13 years before I gotta lay 'em all out on th' table for inspection?
I know, "assumption is the mother of all FUs"
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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:00 PM   #39
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Imagine these old cessna high wings from the 1960 that have not had the headliner out in the last 25 years... They are everywhere.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:02 PM   #40
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerooster View Post
My airplane is 50 years old, but the cables are only 2 years old.
Just scanning the AD, I saw no mention about the age of the cables, just the airframe. Am I safe to assume that because my cables and turnbuckles are only 2 years old, I still have 13 years before I gotta lay 'em all out on th' table for inspection?
I know, "assumption is the mother of all FUs"
Shorty, according to the AD you do get credit if the SB was done prior....
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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:05 PM   #41
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Shorty

The Ad contains no specifics other than the referral to Piper SB 1245A but within that document you'll find this statement:

Quote:
A logbook entry documenting the replacement of any flight control
cable or turnbuckle body will relieve the inspection requirement for that
component only, until such time as that component has been in service
for 15 calendar years.
So you're good for 13 more years.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #42
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

So as the new owner of an old airplane will I be notified of these requirements in some fashion or is this something that only gets ferreted out by the A&P at annual time?

Notwithstanding the great source of information this website affords me!
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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:31 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmyers View Post
So as the new owner of an old airplane will I be notified of these requirements in some fashion or is this something that only gets ferreted out by the A&P at annual time?

Notwithstanding the great source of information this website affords me!
I do believe they are mailed out to owners, but you can sign up for electronic notification directly from piper as well.


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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:32 PM   #44
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Meant to post a link...

http://www.piper.com/home/pages/TechPubsSupport.cfm

Bottom paragraph


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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:38 PM   #45
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Thanks Vandy, Request submitted!!!

Buckeye Aviation takes care of me again. Great lookin plane on your website by the way.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:39 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by tmyers View Post
Thanks Vandy, Request submitted!!!

Buckeye Aviation takes care of me again. Great lookin plane on your website by the way.
Always glad to help!

It's the appropriate colors too


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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #47
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Yes it is (and this is especially for Ed Fred) GO BUCKS
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Old February 5th, 2013, 11:56 PM   #48
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

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Originally Posted by RotorAndWing View Post
On the other hand the person doing the annual inspection (IA) should avail himself the knowledge of the aircraft and it's particular AD's, SB's and MSB's. The IA should discuss with the owner about complying with the items and the importance of doing so, and if the owner refuses then at least the IA should have the owner sign a statement listing the SB's and that the owner acknowledges that he is not complying with said SB's.
You know that sounds good on paper but the fact is that with any 30+ year old GA airplane if you aren't the original owner who bought it new from the factory, never changed your address and never lost a single piece of paper that was sent to you then you'll find it's a daunting task to compile a complete list of every applicable manufacturer's service bulletin, service letter or service instruction of the airframe, engine, propeller and virtually EVERY single component on the airplane. Some manufacturers are better than others at providing a meaningful index and access to these documents but hey, why stop there? What about Maintenance Alerts, Service Difficulty Reports?

Technically it's the owner's responsibility to have all of this information but how many owners have you met who do? Often you're lucky to find an up to date AD compliance list in the paperwork.

I'd love to live in a perfect world too, but I don't.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #49
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvaire View Post
You know that sounds good on paper but the fact is that with any 30+ year old GA airplane if you aren't the original owner who bought it new from the factory, never changed your address and never lost a single piece of paper that was sent to you then you'll find it's a daunting task to compile a complete list of every applicable manufacturer's service bulletin, service letter or service instruction of the airframe, engine, propeller and virtually EVERY single component on the airplane. Some manufacturers are better than others at providing a meaningful index and access to these documents but hey, why stop there? What about Maintenance Alerts, Service Difficulty Reports?

Technically it's the owner's responsibility to have all of this information but how many owners have you met who do? Often you're lucky to find an up to date AD compliance list in the paperwork.

I'd love to live in a perfect world too, but I don't.
My A&P/IA was used to maintain my own aircraft and a very select few others. As an owner I went above and beyond to have all manufacturers data available to me.

There's another thread running now how what it cost to use a substandard mechanic.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 12:23 AM   #50
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Re: FAA requires older Piper planes to be checked for damaged cables

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Originally Posted by RotorAndWing View Post
My A&P/IA was used to maintain my own aircraft and a very select few others.
Same here and for the same reasons.
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